Violation of license agreement

Isn't having a clone or an image of Vista on another internal or external
drive a violation of the license agreement?

I want to build a PC & I was thinking about getting Vista Ultimate because
of its imaging capability. I've browsed thru the forums. Apparently Vista
only allows one image of the hard drive. I don't like that. I'd like to be
able to save multiple images in a single folder on a hard drive. Perhaps, I'd
be perfectly happy with Home Premium. The forum moderators recommend
TrueImage.

When the image is restored, is it restored only to the C drive or can one
specify which drive?

For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before I
install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd choose an
image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently, that is not
possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.

"pc nerd" <> wrote in message
news:A852B396-10BB-4A31-A6C7-...
> Isn't having a clone or an image of Vista on another internal or external
> drive a violation of the license agreement?

My guess is that it does violate the license agreement. The license
agreement's purpose is to protect M$'s interest, not to protect your
interest. Governmental law always trumps license agreements. There is no
law against M$'s including things in the license agreement that are in
disagreement with law. I think that fair use laws protect your right to
have that image.

> I want to build a PC & I was thinking about getting Vista Ultimate because
> of its imaging capability. I've browsed thru the forums. Apparently Vista
> only allows one image of the hard drive. I don't like that. I'd like to be
> able to save multiple images in a single folder on a hard drive. Perhaps,
> I'd
> be perfectly happy with Home Premium. The forum moderators recommend
> TrueImage.

I have not used either Ultimate's imaging capability or TrueImage. I have
used Norton Ghost - I prefer the included DOS version which I have put on a
bootable CD with all the bootup stuff Ghost provides to give USB, Firewire,
and networked external drive access. With a new branded PC, I prefer to
create a Ghost image before booting the computer from its hard drive. That
way I have a truely out-of-the-box image. This image often is small enough
to fit on a single bootable DVD, making restoration pretty easy. I haven't
tried setting it up for a system too big to fit on one DVD. With Ghost or
TrueImage you can make multiple copies of your images.

> When the image is restored, is it restored only to the C drive or can one
> specify which drive?

If you use regedit to search your registry for the character string 'c:\', I
think you will find enough entries to realize that your system would crash
if it were restored from an image onto any other hard drive. Restoring to
the wrong drive letter or doing something to change a bootable partition's
drive letter are problems that crop up here occasionally.

> For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before I
> install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd choose
> an
> image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently, that is
> not
> possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.

Don't know about Ultimate's imaging, but it is doable with Ghost &
TrueImage. Just realize that these images can be huge. So you may want to
become very careful to have your data, especially big stuff like videos, on
a separate drive. Some people make it sound easy, but in many cases it is
not. For example, M$'s Streets & Trips CD version minimal install used more
than 500 MB, and you could only run the software with the second CD in the
drive. Most of the 500MB is unchanging data. I believe the registry can be
tweaked to allow that data to be stored on another partition/drive where it
wouldn't have to be backed up. You might want to lurk in the Vista and XP
general newsgroups looking for backup ideas.

-Paul Randall

"pc nerd" <> wrote in message
news:A852B396-10BB-4A31-A6C7-...
> Isn't having a clone or an image of Vista on another internal or external
> drive a violation of the license agreement?
>
> I want to build a PC & I was thinking about getting Vista Ultimate because
> of its imaging capability. I've browsed thru the forums. Apparently Vista
> only allows one image of the hard drive. I don't like that. I'd like to be
> able to save multiple images in a single folder on a hard drive. Perhaps,
> I'd
> be perfectly happy with Home Premium. The forum moderators recommend
> TrueImage.
>
> When the image is restored, is it restored only to the C drive or can one
> specify which drive?
>
> For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before I
> install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd choose
> an
> image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently, that is
> not
> possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.

With Acronis True Image, you don't need to create a clone in order to image
your setup, you can create an image and save it as an image file and save
multiple copies or even multiple versions of that image to the same folder
or even to multiple folders, drives, etc.

--
Michael Solomon
Backup is a PC user's best friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Michael Solomon" wrote:

>
>
> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
> news:A852B396-10BB-4A31-A6C7-...
> > Isn't having a clone or an image of Vista on another internal or external
> > drive a violation of the license agreement?
> >
> > I want to build a PC & I was thinking about getting Vista Ultimate because
> > of its imaging capability. I've browsed thru the forums. Apparently Vista
> > only allows one image of the hard drive. I don't like that. I'd like to be
> > able to save multiple images in a single folder on a hard drive. Perhaps,
> > I'd
> > be perfectly happy with Home Premium. The forum moderators recommend
> > TrueImage.
> >
> > When the image is restored, is it restored only to the C drive or can one
> > specify which drive?
> >
> > For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before I
> > install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd choose
> > an
> > image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently, that is
> > not
> > possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.
>
> With Acronis True Image, you don't need to create a clone in order to image
> your setup, you can create an image and save it as an image file and save
> multiple copies or even multiple versions of that image to the same folder
> or even to multiple folders, drives, etc.
>
> --
> Michael Solomon
> Backup is a PC user's best friend
> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>
I read the replies & I compared the features of Vista Home Premium &
Ultimate & I think that I'd be perfectly happy with Home Premium. I mainly
wanted to get Ultimate because of its imaging capability, but after finding
out that it's not possible to save more than one image, I've changed my mind.
Oh well, maybe a future Update or the next version of Windows will allow
multiple images to be saved.

"pc nerd" <> wrote in message
news:B1025307-C618-4D58-956E-...
>
>
> "Michael Solomon" wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
>> news:A852B396-10BB-4A31-A6C7-...
>> > Isn't having a clone or an image of Vista on another internal or
>> > external
>> > drive a violation of the license agreement?
>> >
>> > I want to build a PC & I was thinking about getting Vista Ultimate
>> > because
>> > of its imaging capability. I've browsed thru the forums. Apparently
>> > Vista
>> > only allows one image of the hard drive. I don't like that. I'd like to
>> > be
>> > able to save multiple images in a single folder on a hard drive.
>> > Perhaps,
>> > I'd
>> > be perfectly happy with Home Premium. The forum moderators recommend
>> > TrueImage.
>> >
>> > When the image is restored, is it restored only to the C drive or can
>> > one
>> > specify which drive?
>> >
>> > For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before I
>> > install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd
>> > choose
>> > an
>> > image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently, that
>> > is
>> > not
>> > possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.
>>
>> With Acronis True Image, you don't need to create a clone in order to
>> image
>> your setup, you can create an image and save it as an image file and save
>> multiple copies or even multiple versions of that image to the same
>> folder
>> or even to multiple folders, drives, etc.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Solomon
>> Backup is a PC user's best friend
>> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>>
> I read the replies & I compared the features of Vista Home Premium &
> Ultimate & I think that I'd be perfectly happy with Home Premium. I mainly
> wanted to get Ultimate because of its imaging capability, but after
> finding
> out that it's not possible to save more than one image, I've changed my
> mind.
> Oh well, maybe a future Update or the next version of Windows will allow
> multiple images to be saved.
If you are talking about cloning a drive, I doubt that will be changed. If
you are talking about a clone as an image file, I don't see how you can be
prevented from saving multiple copies of the same file. Having not worked
with Vista's imaging capability, I can't speak for how it compares to
Acronis but with Acronis you can create multiple image files and save them
all to any location, your primary hard drive, a separate internal drive,
another computer on your network, an external USB drive, an external SATA
drive and all are accessible using the Acronis Emergency Recovery Disk you
can create with Acronis True Image 10.

--
Michael Solomon
Backup is a PC user's best friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Michael Solomon" wrote:

>
>
> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
> news:B1025307-C618-4D58-956E-...
> >
> >
> > "Michael Solomon" wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
> >> news:A852B396-10BB-4A31-A6C7-...
> >> > Isn't having a clone or an image of Vista on another internal or
> >> > external
> >> > drive a violation of the license agreement?
> >> >
> >> > I want to build a PC & I was thinking about getting Vista Ultimate
> >> > because
> >> > of its imaging capability. I've browsed thru the forums. Apparently
> >> > Vista
> >> > only allows one image of the hard drive. I don't like that. I'd like to
> >> > be
> >> > able to save multiple images in a single folder on a hard drive.
> >> > Perhaps,
> >> > I'd
> >> > be perfectly happy with Home Premium. The forum moderators recommend
> >> > TrueImage.
> >> >
> >> > When the image is restored, is it restored only to the C drive or can
> >> > one
> >> > specify which drive?
> >> >
> >> > For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before I
> >> > install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd
> >> > choose
> >> > an
> >> > image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently, that
> >> > is
> >> > not
> >> > possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.
> >>
> >> With Acronis True Image, you don't need to create a clone in order to
> >> image
> >> your setup, you can create an image and save it as an image file and save
> >> multiple copies or even multiple versions of that image to the same
> >> folder
> >> or even to multiple folders, drives, etc.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michael Solomon
> >> Backup is a PC user's best friend
> >> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
> >>
> > I read the replies & I compared the features of Vista Home Premium &
> > Ultimate & I think that I'd be perfectly happy with Home Premium. I mainly
> > wanted to get Ultimate because of its imaging capability, but after
> > finding
> > out that it's not possible to save more than one image, I've changed my
> > mind.
> > Oh well, maybe a future Update or the next version of Windows will allow
> > multiple images to be saved.
> If you are talking about cloning a drive, I doubt that will be changed. If
> you are talking about a clone as an image file, I don't see how you can be
> prevented from saving multiple copies of the same file. Having not worked
> with Vista's imaging capability, I can't speak for how it compares to
> Acronis but with Acronis you can create multiple image files and save them
> all to any location, your primary hard drive, a separate internal drive,
> another computer on your network, an external USB drive, an external SATA
> drive and all are accessible using the Acronis Emergency Recovery Disk you
> can create with Acronis True Image 10.
>
> --
> Michael Solomon
> Backup is a PC user's best friend
> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>
I've noticed that everybody has recommended True Image instead of Ghost. I
wonder why.

I went to a bookstore yesterday & browsed thru books on Vista comparing Home
Premium to Ultimate. I think that I'd be perfectly happy with Home Premium. I
did read about AnyTime Update. That's cool! I didn't know that Microsoft puts
more than one version of Vista on a single DVD. That would save Microsoft
money. So, if I decided to upgrade from Home Premium to U;timate, it would be
easy to do.

Wouldn't the OEM version of Home Premium leave out features that are in the
retail version of Home Premium?

And suppose that I had problems with Vista. Wouldn't I be be better off with
the retail version of Vista?

"pc nerd" <> wrote in message
news:431ED53A-8CAB-4296-A672-...
>
>
> "Michael Solomon" wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
>> news:B1025307-C618-4D58-956E-...
>> >
>> >
>> > "Michael Solomon" wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
>> >> news:A852B396-10BB-4A31-A6C7-...
>> >> > Isn't having a clone or an image of Vista on another internal or
>> >> > external
>> >> > drive a violation of the license agreement?
>> >> >
>> >> > I want to build a PC & I was thinking about getting Vista Ultimate
>> >> > because
>> >> > of its imaging capability. I've browsed thru the forums. Apparently
>> >> > Vista
>> >> > only allows one image of the hard drive. I don't like that. I'd like
>> >> > to
>> >> > be
>> >> > able to save multiple images in a single folder on a hard drive.
>> >> > Perhaps,
>> >> > I'd
>> >> > be perfectly happy with Home Premium. The forum moderators recommend
>> >> > TrueImage.
>> >> >
>> >> > When the image is restored, is it restored only to the C drive or
>> >> > can
>> >> > one
>> >> > specify which drive?
>> >> >
>> >> > For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before
>> >> > I
>> >> > install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd
>> >> > choose
>> >> > an
>> >> > image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently,
>> >> > that
>> >> > is
>> >> > not
>> >> > possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.
>> >>
>> >> With Acronis True Image, you don't need to create a clone in order to
>> >> image
>> >> your setup, you can create an image and save it as an image file and
>> >> save
>> >> multiple copies or even multiple versions of that image to the same
>> >> folder
>> >> or even to multiple folders, drives, etc.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael Solomon
>> >> Backup is a PC user's best friend
>> >> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>> >>
>> > I read the replies & I compared the features of Vista Home Premium &
>> > Ultimate & I think that I'd be perfectly happy with Home Premium. I
>> > mainly
>> > wanted to get Ultimate because of its imaging capability, but after
>> > finding
>> > out that it's not possible to save more than one image, I've changed my
>> > mind.
>> > Oh well, maybe a future Update or the next version of Windows will
>> > allow
>> > multiple images to be saved.
>> If you are talking about cloning a drive, I doubt that will be changed.
>> If
>> you are talking about a clone as an image file, I don't see how you can
>> be
>> prevented from saving multiple copies of the same file. Having not
>> worked
>> with Vista's imaging capability, I can't speak for how it compares to
>> Acronis but with Acronis you can create multiple image files and save
>> them
>> all to any location, your primary hard drive, a separate internal drive,
>> another computer on your network, an external USB drive, an external SATA
>> drive and all are accessible using the Acronis Emergency Recovery Disk
>> you
>> can create with Acronis True Image 10.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Solomon
>> Backup is a PC user's best friend
>> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>>
> I've noticed that everybody has recommended True Image instead of Ghost. I
> wonder why.
>
> I went to a bookstore yesterday & browsed thru books on Vista comparing
> Home
> Premium to Ultimate. I think that I'd be perfectly happy with Home
> Premium. I
> did read about AnyTime Update. That's cool! I didn't know that Microsoft
> puts
> more than one version of Vista on a single DVD. That would save Microsoft
> money. So, if I decided to upgrade from Home Premium to U;timate, it would
> be
> easy to do.
>
> Wouldn't the OEM version of Home Premium leave out features that are in
> the
> retail version of Home Premium?
>
> And suppose that I had problems with Vista. Wouldn't I be be better off
> with
> the retail version of Vista?

Prior to Acronis, many of use used Ghost and later, a product called Drive
Image. Symantec purchased the company that made Drive Image and
incorporated much of Drive Image into the previous Ghost product.

While this product has, from what I gather improved enormously, initial
versions of the new Drive Image did not live up to previous versions. The
change occurred around the time Windows XP was released and there were some
reported compatibility issues as well. Hence, many of the former Drive
Image users moved on to Acronis and other products.

The OEM version will not leave out features but it will be tied to the first
system on which it is installed. In other words, you can't move it to a new
computer if you should purchase one. As to support, with OEM versions that
is up to vendor from which you purchased the product but you would not be
entitled to support from Microsoft. That said, if you purchased a new
computer with Vista preinstalled, that would be an OEM version and support
would be the responsibility of the PC manufacturer. Again, that product
could not be moved to a new computer.

Only you can decide which is better for you and what best suits your needs.

--
Michael Solomon
Backup is a PC user's best friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

pc nerd wrote:
> For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before I
> install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd choose an
> image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently, that is not
> possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.

You would also remove any other programs which had been installed since
that date. If you have data stored on the same drive, you would also
lose any data saved after that date. If you choose to remove the
software, you should do so using the Programs and Features control panel
or its own uninstaller.

It is still a good idea to create an image before making major changes
to software or hardware, since it allows you to restore to a point
before those changes if it causes a problem. Restoring from an image is
not a good way to uninstall software a long time after it was installed
if it has not caused a serious problem.

"Michael Solomon" wrote:

>
>
> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
> news:431ED53A-8CAB-4296-A672-...
> >
> >
> > "Michael Solomon" wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
> >> news:B1025307-C618-4D58-956E-...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Michael Solomon" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "pc nerd" <> wrote in message
> >> >> news:A852B396-10BB-4A31-A6C7-...
> >> >> > Isn't having a clone or an image of Vista on another internal or
> >> >> > external
> >> >> > drive a violation of the license agreement?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I want to build a PC & I was thinking about getting Vista Ultimate
> >> >> > because
> >> >> > of its imaging capability. I've browsed thru the forums. Apparently
> >> >> > Vista
> >> >> > only allows one image of the hard drive. I don't like that. I'd like
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > be
> >> >> > able to save multiple images in a single folder on a hard drive.
> >> >> > Perhaps,
> >> >> > I'd
> >> >> > be perfectly happy with Home Premium. The forum moderators recommend
> >> >> > TrueImage.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > When the image is restored, is it restored only to the C drive or
> >> >> > can
> >> >> > one
> >> >> > specify which drive?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > For example, I'd like to be able to create an image each time before
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > install software. That way, if I decide to remove the software, I'd
> >> >> > choose
> >> >> > an
> >> >> > image that I created before I installed the software. Apparently,
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > is
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > possible with Vista Ultimate, unfortunately.
> >> >>
> >> >> With Acronis True Image, you don't need to create a clone in order to
> >> >> image
> >> >> your setup, you can create an image and save it as an image file and
> >> >> save
> >> >> multiple copies or even multiple versions of that image to the same
> >> >> folder
> >> >> or even to multiple folders, drives, etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Michael Solomon
> >> >> Backup is a PC user's best friend
> >> >> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
> >> >>
> >> > I read the replies & I compared the features of Vista Home Premium &
> >> > Ultimate & I think that I'd be perfectly happy with Home Premium. I
> >> > mainly
> >> > wanted to get Ultimate because of its imaging capability, but after
> >> > finding
> >> > out that it's not possible to save more than one image, I've changed my
> >> > mind.
> >> > Oh well, maybe a future Update or the next version of Windows will
> >> > allow
> >> > multiple images to be saved.
> >> If you are talking about cloning a drive, I doubt that will be changed.
> >> If
> >> you are talking about a clone as an image file, I don't see how you can
> >> be
> >> prevented from saving multiple copies of the same file. Having not
> >> worked
> >> with Vista's imaging capability, I can't speak for how it compares to
> >> Acronis but with Acronis you can create multiple image files and save
> >> them
> >> all to any location, your primary hard drive, a separate internal drive,
> >> another computer on your network, an external USB drive, an external SATA
> >> drive and all are accessible using the Acronis Emergency Recovery Disk
> >> you
> >> can create with Acronis True Image 10.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michael Solomon
> >> Backup is a PC user's best friend
> >> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
> >>
> > I've noticed that everybody has recommended True Image instead of Ghost. I
> > wonder why.
> >
> > I went to a bookstore yesterday & browsed thru books on Vista comparing
> > Home
> > Premium to Ultimate. I think that I'd be perfectly happy with Home
> > Premium. I
> > did read about AnyTime Update. That's cool! I didn't know that Microsoft
> > puts
> > more than one version of Vista on a single DVD. That would save Microsoft
> > money. So, if I decided to upgrade from Home Premium to U;timate, it would
> > be
> > easy to do.
> >
> > Wouldn't the OEM version of Home Premium leave out features that are in
> > the
> > retail version of Home Premium?
> >
> > And suppose that I had problems with Vista. Wouldn't I be be better off
> > with
> > the retail version of Vista?
>
> Prior to Acronis, many of use used Ghost and later, a product called Drive
> Image. Symantec purchased the company that made Drive Image and
> incorporated much of Drive Image into the previous Ghost product.
>
> While this product has, from what I gather improved enormously, initial
> versions of the new Drive Image did not live up to previous versions. The
> change occurred around the time Windows XP was released and there were some
> reported compatibility issues as well. Hence, many of the former Drive
> Image users moved on to Acronis and other products.
>
> The OEM version will not leave out features but it will be tied to the first
> system on which it is installed. In other words, you can't move it to a new
> computer if you should purchase one. As to support, with OEM versions that
> is up to vendor from which you purchased the product but you would not be
> entitled to support from Microsoft. That said, if you purchased a new
> computer with Vista preinstalled, that would be an OEM version and support
> would be the responsibility of the PC manufacturer. Again, that product
> could not be moved to a new computer.
>
> Only you can decide which is better for you and what best suits your needs.
>
> --
> Michael Solomon
> Backup is a PC user's best friend
> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>
Mr. Solomon stated: "The OEM version will not leave out features but it will
be tied to the first system on which it is installed." It seems to me that I
read somewhere that OEM versions of Windows leave out drivers that are in the
retail version & include only drivers that are specific to the hardware that
the manufacturer sells.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:10:39 -0700, pc nerd
<> wrote:


> Mr. Solomon stated: "The OEM version will not leave out features but it will
> be tied to the first system on which it is installed." It seems to me that I
> read somewhere that OEM versions of Windows leave out drivers that are in the
> retail version & include only drivers that are specific to the hardware that
> the manufacturer sells.



There are two kinds of OEM versions:

1. Those that particular OEMs customize for particular computers they
sell, and are normally shipped pre-installed on those computers. They
are also often (but not always) BIOS-locked to the particular
motherboard model they come with, and won't install on anything else.

2. Generic OEM versions. Although they aren't retail versions, these
are sold in the retail market, both by big chains like Walmart and by
small local custom-builders. There was a time when the requirement was
that these could only be sold with a computer, new motherboard, or new
hard drive. Then the requirement was relaxed to be any hardware. And
apparently now, even that requirement may be gone. In terms of the
software they contain, these are identical to the retail versions.

What you say may be sometimes true of the first kind, but not of the
second kind.




--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
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