Vista 64 System needs Extended warm-up

Hello All;



I have a new build (Late October) with a problem unlike any
I have seen on any of the forums.



MB EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 NF780i SLI / 15.23 drivers

VGA ZOTAC ZT-98XES2P-FCP 9800GTX RT

CPU INTEL Q9550 2.83 775 12M

MEM 2ea 2GX2 GSK F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ

HD 640G ST 7K 32M ST3640323AS

MS WIN VISTA ULTIMATE SP1 64 BIT

Coolermaster 810 case w/850 watt PS

Phoenix Bios PO6 / NVIDIA Bios Version 2.053 D8

No upgraded BIOS/ Everything in BIOS is default except the boot order



Note that with the total 8 Gig of memory I had the "normal"
problem of not being able to install Windows until I had stripped the memory
down to only 4 Gigs in the first 2 slots. Installation went OK with only 2
sticks of memory, but I needed to do a repair installation a couple of times
to remedy a "forever boot" that included a full completion of POST to FF.
All memory tests good in the first 2 slots and system actually seems a
little snappier with only 4 Gig installed, but then I put the other 4 Gig in
and developed into the following.

System now occasionally boots and runs properly, but more
often, boots to desktop, takes over a minute to find my DSL internet
connection and then the following:

1. Runs a couple of short tasks and then hangs with an
application not responding indication in any application that may be running
at the time. Sometimes this happens immediately, sometimes one application
will hang while others continue. Sometimes all applications will hang and
then sporadically continue. Frustration then gets me to reset after a few
minutes. Sometimes, however, the applications will pick up and run normally
for the rest of the nite.

2. Bottom line is that the system is most always flakey when
its first turned on and stays flakey til its warmed up. This warm-up period
may take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, but once its warmed up, it
will run well until secured for the day. If I light off Task Manager first,
before the flakiness starts, I can tell that CPU activity goes to
essentially zero during the periods of hang-up. Usually the mouse remains
active along with the ability to move windows around - but not always.



The issue is probably hardware related, but I have gone way
past to time when I cannot RMA any of the parts. I could still turn in the
780i on an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but its really unclear if my
problem is the motherboard (my prime suspect), the hard disk or the
operating system. I'm rather afraid to upgrade the BIOS due to the problems
I read about here and the issue doesn't seem to be something that would be
helped by that anyway.



Any suggestions or magic spells would be most welcome.



Tom

Hi,

First, as the problem seems related to the installation of the second pair
of memory sticks, try running on just those two. If the problem repeats
itself, you know one of them is faulty.

You might also try manually setting the memory timings in the system BIOS.
I've found that on a number of systems this is necessary when you reach the
maximum capacity for the motherboard. It may also help to slow it down a
notch from specifications.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"Tom" <(remove)> wrote in message
news:856F00F2-DB17-4C23-80A1-...
> Hello All;
>
>
>
> I have a new build (Late October) with a problem unlike any
> I have seen on any of the forums.
>
>
>
> MB EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 NF780i SLI / 15.23 drivers
>
> VGA ZOTAC ZT-98XES2P-FCP 9800GTX RT
>
> CPU INTEL Q9550 2.83 775 12M
>
> MEM 2ea 2GX2 GSK F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ
>
> HD 640G ST 7K 32M ST3640323AS
>
> MS WIN VISTA ULTIMATE SP1 64 BIT
>
> Coolermaster 810 case w/850 watt PS
>
> Phoenix Bios PO6 / NVIDIA Bios Version 2.053 D8
>
> No upgraded BIOS/ Everything in BIOS is default except the boot order
>
>
>
> Note that with the total 8 Gig of memory I had the "normal"
> problem of not being able to install Windows until I had stripped the
> memory down to only 4 Gigs in the first 2 slots. Installation went OK
> with only 2 sticks of memory, but I needed to do a repair installation a
> couple of times to remedy a "forever boot" that included a full completion
> of POST to FF. All memory tests good in the first 2 slots and system
> actually seems a little snappier with only 4 Gig installed, but then I put
> the other 4 Gig in and developed into the following.
>
> System now occasionally boots and runs properly, but more
> often, boots to desktop, takes over a minute to find my DSL internet
> connection and then the following:
>
> 1. Runs a couple of short tasks and then hangs with an
> application not responding indication in any application that may be
> running at the time. Sometimes this happens immediately, sometimes one
> application will hang while others continue. Sometimes all applications
> will hang and then sporadically continue. Frustration then gets me to
> reset after a few minutes. Sometimes, however, the applications will pick
> up and run normally for the rest of the nite.
>
> 2. Bottom line is that the system is most always flakey
> when its first turned on and stays flakey til its warmed up. This warm-up
> period may take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, but once its warmed
> up, it will run well until secured for the day. If I light off Task
> Manager first, before the flakiness starts, I can tell that CPU activity
> goes to essentially zero during the periods of hang-up. Usually the mouse
> remains active along with the ability to move windows around - but not
> always.
>
>
>
> The issue is probably hardware related, but I have gone way
> past to time when I cannot RMA any of the parts. I could still turn in
> the 780i on an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but its really unclear
> if my problem is the motherboard (my prime suspect), the hard disk or the
> operating system. I'm rather afraid to upgrade the BIOS due to the
> problems I read about here and the issue doesn't seem to be something that
> would be helped by that anyway.
>
>
>
> Any suggestions or magic spells would be most welcome.
>
>
>
> Tom
>

Tom wrote:

(snippage)

> System now occasionally boots and runs properly, but more
> often, boots to desktop, takes over a minute to find my DSL internet
> connection and then the following:
>
> 1. Runs a couple of short tasks and then hangs with an
> application not responding indication in any application that may be
> running
> at the time. Sometimes this happens immediately, sometimes one
> application
> will hang while others continue. Sometimes all applications will hang and
> then sporadically continue. Frustration then gets me to reset after a few
> minutes. Sometimes, however, the applications will pick up and run
> normally for the rest of the nite.
>
> 2. Bottom line is that the system is most always flakey
> when
> its first turned on and stays flakey til its warmed up. This warm-up
> period may take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, but once its warmed
> up, it
> will run well until secured for the day. If I light off Task Manager
> first, before the flakiness starts, I can tell that CPU activity goes to
> essentially zero during the periods of hang-up. Usually the mouse remains
> active along with the ability to move windows around - but not always.

Just to add to Rick's good advice, your issues are almost certainly
hardware-related and have nothing to do with Windows. I also doubt that
flashing your BIOS will help, but of course you can try.

You've got failing hardware, so start testing with the first most likely
suspect which is the RAM. I'm sorry about the RMA status of your
components, but if something is bad you have to replace it.

http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/...ardware_Tshoot

Since you built the box yourself, if you can't narrow down the culprit to
(for ex.) the RAM by testing, take everything apart as part of your
troubleshooting. Check that you didn't miss putting in a standoff, etc.


Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Erratic abnormal behavior can almost always be traced to

1. RAM
2. Failing hard drive

Put the 2nd two sticks of RAM in the first 2 slots (with the 2nd set of
slots empty). Do you have the same problem? If so, it is easy to figure out
which RAM stick is defective - because you are using 4 sticks. Label them
1-4 and start trying different pairs. When you notice you always have
problems with stick #3 as part of the pair you have it nailed.

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience


"Tom" <(remove)> wrote in message
news:856F00F2-DB17-4C23-80A1-...
> Hello All;
>
>
>
> I have a new build (Late October) with a problem unlike any
> I have seen on any of the forums.
>
>
>
> MB EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 NF780i SLI / 15.23 drivers
>
> VGA ZOTAC ZT-98XES2P-FCP 9800GTX RT
>
> CPU INTEL Q9550 2.83 775 12M
>
> MEM 2ea 2GX2 GSK F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ
>
> HD 640G ST 7K 32M ST3640323AS
>
> MS WIN VISTA ULTIMATE SP1 64 BIT
>
> Coolermaster 810 case w/850 watt PS
>
> Phoenix Bios PO6 / NVIDIA Bios Version 2.053 D8
>
> No upgraded BIOS/ Everything in BIOS is default except the boot order
>
>
>
> Note that with the total 8 Gig of memory I had the "normal"
> problem of not being able to install Windows until I had stripped the
> memory down to only 4 Gigs in the first 2 slots. Installation went OK
> with only 2 sticks of memory, but I needed to do a repair installation a
> couple of times to remedy a "forever boot" that included a full completion
> of POST to FF. All memory tests good in the first 2 slots and system
> actually seems a little snappier with only 4 Gig installed, but then I put
> the other 4 Gig in and developed into the following.
>
> System now occasionally boots and runs properly, but more
> often, boots to desktop, takes over a minute to find my DSL internet
> connection and then the following:
>
> 1. Runs a couple of short tasks and then hangs with an
> application not responding indication in any application that may be
> running at the time. Sometimes this happens immediately, sometimes one
> application will hang while others continue. Sometimes all applications
> will hang and then sporadically continue. Frustration then gets me to
> reset after a few minutes. Sometimes, however, the applications will pick
> up and run normally for the rest of the nite.
>
> 2. Bottom line is that the system is most always flakey
> when its first turned on and stays flakey til its warmed up. This warm-up
> period may take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, but once its warmed
> up, it will run well until secured for the day. If I light off Task
> Manager first, before the flakiness starts, I can tell that CPU activity
> goes to essentially zero during the periods of hang-up. Usually the mouse
> remains active along with the ability to move windows around - but not
> always.
>
>
>
> The issue is probably hardware related, but I have gone way
> past to time when I cannot RMA any of the parts. I could still turn in
> the 780i on an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but its really unclear
> if my problem is the motherboard (my prime suspect), the hard disk or the
> operating system. I'm rather afraid to upgrade the BIOS due to the
> problems I read about here and the issue doesn't seem to be something that
> would be helped by that anyway.
>
>
>
> Any suggestions or magic spells would be most welcome.
>
>
>
> Tom
>

Hello Tom.

It may not be down to any faulty hardware just yet. The first thing I would
do on your system is raise the memory voltage slightly, by say 0.1 or 0.2
volts.

Typically most DDR2 RAM will run at 1.8 volts, and this is what most
motherboards will automatically set themselves too. However it is pretty
common that when all 4 slots are filled that you need to push the voltage up
a little bit higher. For maximum performance at rated speeds the voltage is
quite often 2.0 or even 2.2 volts depending on your particular RAM.

See if you can find out what the recommended voltage is for your RAM, set it
at that in the BIOS. If you don't get any luck with that or you can't find
the recommended voltage just push it up a little bit anyway.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience.
http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*


"Tom" <(remove)> wrote in message
news:856F00F2-DB17-4C23-80A1-...
> Hello All;
>
>
>
> I have a new build (Late October) with a problem unlike any
> I have seen on any of the forums.
>
>
>
> MB EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 NF780i SLI / 15.23 drivers
>
> VGA ZOTAC ZT-98XES2P-FCP 9800GTX RT
>
> CPU INTEL Q9550 2.83 775 12M
>
> MEM 2ea 2GX2 GSK F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ
>
> HD 640G ST 7K 32M ST3640323AS
>
> MS WIN VISTA ULTIMATE SP1 64 BIT
>
> Coolermaster 810 case w/850 watt PS
>
> Phoenix Bios PO6 / NVIDIA Bios Version 2.053 D8
>
> No upgraded BIOS/ Everything in BIOS is default except the boot order
>
>
>
> Note that with the total 8 Gig of memory I had the "normal"
> problem of not being able to install Windows until I had stripped the
> memory down to only 4 Gigs in the first 2 slots. Installation went OK
> with only 2 sticks of memory, but I needed to do a repair installation a
> couple of times to remedy a "forever boot" that included a full completion
> of POST to FF. All memory tests good in the first 2 slots and system
> actually seems a little snappier with only 4 Gig installed, but then I put
> the other 4 Gig in and developed into the following.
>
> System now occasionally boots and runs properly, but more
> often, boots to desktop, takes over a minute to find my DSL internet
> connection and then the following:
>
> 1. Runs a couple of short tasks and then hangs with an
> application not responding indication in any application that may be
> running at the time. Sometimes this happens immediately, sometimes one
> application will hang while others continue. Sometimes all applications
> will hang and then sporadically continue. Frustration then gets me to
> reset after a few minutes. Sometimes, however, the applications will pick
> up and run normally for the rest of the nite.
>
> 2. Bottom line is that the system is most always flakey
> when its first turned on and stays flakey til its warmed up. This warm-up
> period may take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, but once its warmed
> up, it will run well until secured for the day. If I light off Task
> Manager first, before the flakiness starts, I can tell that CPU activity
> goes to essentially zero during the periods of hang-up. Usually the mouse
> remains active along with the ability to move windows around - but not
> always.
>
>
>
> The issue is probably hardware related, but I have gone way
> past to time when I cannot RMA any of the parts. I could still turn in
> the 780i on an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but its really unclear
> if my problem is the motherboard (my prime suspect), the hard disk or the
> operating system. I'm rather afraid to upgrade the BIOS due to the
> problems I read about here and the issue doesn't seem to be something that
> would be helped by that anyway.
>
>
>
> Any suggestions or magic spells would be most welcome.
>
>
>
> Tom
>

Thanks folks;



Note that troubleshooting this kind of problem takes a little time as once
the system is warmed up sufficiently, it starts to work OK.

OK, here are my results thus far.



1. My memory voltage specs are 1.8 to 1.9 with the auto
value set to 1.85. The speed specs are 5-5-5-15. The auto value shown in
the bios matches these speed values. Per your suggestion I increased the
memory voltage first to 1.875and the to 1.9 with no change in symptoms.
Then upped SPP (whatever that means) from 1.3 to 1.35 with the memory
voltage back down to 1.85, then 1.875, then 1.9 all with not change in
symptoms.



2. Since this may be a memory problem and I WAS able to get
the operating system installed only after removing 2 of my 4 DIMMs I
returned the memory voltage and the SPP voltage to the auto values and first
removed one set of DDR2 memory and then the other, cycling both 4 Gig sets
through first slots zero & one and then slots two & three. No change in
symptoms although the system did seem a little snappier with 4 Gig installed
than with 8 Gig.



3. Through all of this, I eventually noticed that when the
system appears to be hung and the applications are not responding, the hard
disk activity light would flash periodically at an almost exactly once per
second rate. When the system was getting ready to respond, the hard disk
activity light would start flashing irregularly or go on steady indicating a
different level of activity. Since I was in the box anyway at this point, I
moved the hard disk SATA cable from position 1 to position 5 on the mother
board. Shucks, no change.



4. Does all of this mean I have a flakey hard disk?

Tom


"Tom" <(remove)> wrote in message
news:856F00F2-DB17-4C23-80A1-...
> Hello All;
>
>
>
> I have a new build (Late October) with a problem unlike any
> I have seen on any of the forums.
>
>
>
> MB EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 NF780i SLI / 15.23 drivers
>
> VGA ZOTAC ZT-98XES2P-FCP 9800GTX RT
>
> CPU INTEL Q9550 2.83 775 12M
>
> MEM 2ea 2GX2 GSK F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ
>
> HD 640G ST 7K 32M ST3640323AS
>
> MS WIN VISTA ULTIMATE SP1 64 BIT
>
> Coolermaster 810 case w/850 watt PS
>
> Phoenix Bios PO6 / NVIDIA Bios Version 2.053 D8
>
> No upgraded BIOS/ Everything in BIOS is default except the boot order
>
>
>
> Note that with the total 8 Gig of memory I had the "normal"
> problem of not being able to install Windows until I had stripped the
> memory down to only 4 Gigs in the first 2 slots. Installation went OK
> with only 2 sticks of memory, but I needed to do a repair installation a
> couple of times to remedy a "forever boot" that included a full completion
> of POST to FF. All memory tests good in the first 2 slots and system
> actually seems a little snappier with only 4 Gig installed, but then I put
> the other 4 Gig in and developed into the following.
>
> System now occasionally boots and runs properly, but more
> often, boots to desktop, takes over a minute to find my DSL internet
> connection and then the following:
>
> 1. Runs a couple of short tasks and then hangs with an
> application not responding indication in any application that may be
> running at the time. Sometimes this happens immediately, sometimes one
> application will hang while others continue. Sometimes all applications
> will hang and then sporadically continue. Frustration then gets me to
> reset after a few minutes. Sometimes, however, the applications will pick
> up and run normally for the rest of the nite.
>
> 2. Bottom line is that the system is most always flakey
> when its first turned on and stays flakey til its warmed up. This warm-up
> period may take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, but once its warmed
> up, it will run well until secured for the day. If I light off Task
> Manager first, before the flakiness starts, I can tell that CPU activity
> goes to essentially zero during the periods of hang-up. Usually the mouse
> remains active along with the ability to move windows around - but not
> always.
>
>
>
> The issue is probably hardware related, but I have gone way
> past to time when I cannot RMA any of the parts. I could still turn in
> the 780i on an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but its really unclear
> if my problem is the motherboard (my prime suspect), the hard disk or the
> operating system. I'm rather afraid to upgrade the BIOS due to the
> problems I read about here and the issue doesn't seem to be something that
> would be helped by that anyway.
>
>
>
> Any suggestions or magic spells would be most welcome.
>
>
>
> Tom
>

In article <21D7ED7C-9FF5-4AF5-9C8B->,
Tom <(remove)> wrote:
>
>
> 2. Since this may be a memory problem and I WAS able to get
>the operating system installed only after removing 2 of my 4 DIMMs I
>returned the memory voltage and the SPP voltage to the auto values and first
>removed one set of DDR2 memory and then the other, cycling both 4 Gig sets
>through first slots zero & one and then slots two & three. No change in
>symptoms although the system did seem a little snappier with 4 Gig installed
>than with 8 Gig.
>

Ummmm check your motherboard manufacturer's detailed specs. Lots
of times even though a board has say 4 slots it can't support 4 fully
populated slots. Doesn't have enough power.

"the wharf rat" <> wrote in message
news:ghsd4a$oi7$...
> In article <21D7ED7C-9FF5-4AF5-9C8B->,
> Tom <(remove)> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2. Since this may be a memory problem and I WAS able to
>> get
>>the operating system installed only after removing 2 of my 4 DIMMs I
>>returned the memory voltage and the SPP voltage to the auto values and
>>first
>>removed one set of DDR2 memory and then the other, cycling both 4 Gig sets
>>through first slots zero & one and then slots two & three. No change in
>>symptoms although the system did seem a little snappier with 4 Gig
>>installed
>>than with 8 Gig.
>>
>
> Ummmm check your motherboard manufacturer's detailed specs. Lots
> of times even though a board has say 4 slots it can't support 4 fully
> populated slots. Doesn't have enough power.
>

Thought about that since I couldn't get the OS installed with all 4 DIMMs.
Had to cut to 4Gig vice 8 Gig.. Note that I went back to the 2 DIMMs and
tried with the same results.

Thanks,

Tom