Vista has another nasty surprise for you if you do a install in place

If Vista makes a mirror image of settings and applications as claimed
if you do a install in place to save from having to reinstall your
applications the following can't happen, but it does.

You're probably tired of me saying I have lots of software. Well I do.
After successfully installing Vista and doing a quick check of all my
software to see if it was still running, guess I didn't check fully
enough. While all my software works under Vista, except for AVG
antivirus as far as I can tell so far I didn't check every feature in
every application to see if everything still works as it should. That
would be endless.

Well darn the luck. I just started to use a application I hadn't
tested aside from seeing if it worked at the most basic level, which
it did. To put it simply, now that I'm really starting to get back to
work and trying to seriously use my software, this one package at
least looks strange if I go to certain menu choices. They're simply
gone. In their place are huge blank white areas where program controls
use to be. How's that for frustrating? This application of course
worked fine under XP.

So again for about the 20th time since installed Vista I had to stop
what I was doing and start to troubleshoot what Vista messed up.
Couldn't find out what happened except it obviously didn't transfer
everything to the Registry correctly. I was able to reinstall the
application and again it seems to be working alright, but just another
nail in Vista's coffin. Vista was extensively tested before release?
LOL! Sure, and I'm the king of England.

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:37:20 -0600, Adam Albright <> wrote:

>If Vista makes a mirror image of settings and applications as claimed
>if you do a install in place to save from having to reinstall your
>applications the following can't happen, but it does.
>
>You're probably tired of me saying I have lots of software. Well I do.
>After successfully installing Vista and doing a quick check of all my
>software to see if it was still running, guess I didn't check fully
>enough. While all my software works under Vista, except for AVG
>antivirus as far as I can tell so far I didn't check every feature in
>every application to see if everything still works as it should. That
>would be endless.
>
>Well darn the luck. I just started to use a application I hadn't
>tested aside from seeing if it worked at the most basic level, which
>it did. To put it simply, now that I'm really starting to get back to
>work and trying to seriously use my software, this one package at
>least looks strange if I go to certain menu choices. They're simply
>gone. In their place are huge blank white areas where program controls
>use to be. How's that for frustrating? This application of course
>worked fine under XP.
>
>So again for about the 20th time since installed Vista I had to stop
>what I was doing and start to troubleshoot what Vista messed up.
>Couldn't find out what happened except it obviously didn't transfer
>everything to the Registry correctly. I was able to reinstall the
>application and again it seems to be working alright, but just another
>nail in Vista's coffin. Vista was extensively tested before release?
>LOL! Sure, and I'm the king of England.

Microsoft and their Beta Testers cannot test out every piece of
software that's out there. It's one reason why Microsoft tries to get
testers with different types of computers and a mix of retail software
on them.

I beta tested Windows 98. Since I lived in Washington, I was asked to
bring my PC to Redmond on a Saturday for a 'testing' party. It so
happens that while running a VERY young copy of Windows 98, my audio
didn't work. There was a programmer on hand that immediately created
a driver for it on the spot. Problem solved. Same thing with
software. They want you to run all of your software while testing and
report any problems you have. However, keep in mind that it's not
Microsoft's fault if your software fails to function. It's the
responsibility of the software maker to ensure their software is
compatible. And it's another reason Microsoft will release code to
'friendly' software manufacturers, so compatible software will be
available upon release.

Symantec appears to be on top of the problem but I'm still having
problems with Internet Security 2007. Not all features are in use. I
doubt Microsoft would intentionally cripple Vista so it doesn't allow
some software to run, but who knows. Parts of the code isn't as
valuable as the entire library of code.

Your particular problem isn't with Vista. It's with the people that
made your software whom you failed to mention. Look to them for
support and a fix.

I'm ****ed at Netgear and know why now I've never liked their
products. Their support sucks, especially when it comes to drivers
for their network storage device. I have two hard drives in that
piece of crap that I cannot access because Netgear is too slow in
coming up with Vista drivers. I've had the thing only a week before
Vista came out. Maybe I should have checked the Microsoft
compatibility site to be sure it would work before I bought it, but
then I didn't expect to be stupid enough to buy Vista so soon. My XP
Pro was working just fine.

Adam,

Your posts are interesting to read and you do an excellent job of noting
details - to an extent... Since many of us have a lot invested in software
also (CAD and Photo editing) would you mind including what software you're
having a problem with?

Obviously you're checking the vendors site to see what they say about Vista
compatibility (or not), any upgrades or patches needed (or promises of
forthcoming patches) and trying to install that software in WinXP
compatibility mode to see if there's any difference - right?

One more point since I believe you mentioned that you turned off UAC. Not a
good idea as I've learned when installing software. Be sure UAC is ON, then
reinstall the software and you just may notice a big difference - I did..

Certainly don't mean to preach to the choir but thought maybe you're focused
a bit tight right now with getting your system up and documenting the trials
and tribulations too. Appreciate you're doing so - really....fewer
headaches we have to go thru....;-)

I have an "escalated" problem with nVidia nForce4 drivers now that's driving
me - and them - nuts at the moment. Asus just keeps pointing their finger
at Nvidia and Nvidia is shrugging their shoulders. But I'm sure they'll be
able to reproduce the problem(s) and work out a driver fix. Meanwhile, I've
got a triple boot system going here for test with WinXP still the bread
winner for now while we get the young 'uns whipped into shape.

Thanks,

Bob S.



"Adam Albright" <> wrote in message
news:...
> If Vista makes a mirror image of settings and applications as claimed
> if you do a install in place to save from having to reinstall your
> applications the following can't happen, but it does.
>
> You're probably tired of me saying I have lots of software. Well I do.
> After successfully installing Vista and doing a quick check of all my
> software to see if it was still running, guess I didn't check fully
> enough. While all my software works under Vista, except for AVG
> antivirus as far as I can tell so far I didn't check every feature in
> every application to see if everything still works as it should. That
> would be endless.
>
> Well darn the luck. I just started to use a application I hadn't
> tested aside from seeing if it worked at the most basic level, which
> it did. To put it simply, now that I'm really starting to get back to
> work and trying to seriously use my software, this one package at
> least looks strange if I go to certain menu choices. They're simply
> gone. In their place are huge blank white areas where program controls
> use to be. How's that for frustrating? This application of course
> worked fine under XP.
>
> So again for about the 20th time since installed Vista I had to stop
> what I was doing and start to troubleshoot what Vista messed up.
> Couldn't find out what happened except it obviously didn't transfer
> everything to the Registry correctly. I was able to reinstall the
> application and again it seems to be working alright, but just another
> nail in Vista's coffin. Vista was extensively tested before release?
> LOL! Sure, and I'm the king of England.
>
>
>
>
>

Bob, What is the problem with installing software with UAC off ? I have UAC
disabled and don't plan to ever enabled it. Why would having UAC off cause a
problem ?

"BobS" <no-> wrote in message
news:O75T$...

> One more point since I believe you mentioned that you turned off UAC. Not
> a good idea as I've learned when installing software. Be sure UAC is ON,
> then reinstall the software and you just may notice a big difference - I
> did..
>
> Certainly don't mean to preach to the choir but thought maybe you're
> focused a bit tight right now with getting your system up and documenting
> the trials and tribulations too. Appreciate you're doing so -
> really....fewer headaches we have to go thru....;-)
> Thanks,
>
> Bob S.
>
>
>
> "Adam Albright" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> If Vista makes a mirror image of settings and applications as claimed
>> if you do a install in place to save from having to reinstall your
>> applications the following can't happen, but it does.
>>
>> You're probably tired of me saying I have lots of software. Well I do.
>> After successfully installing Vista and doing a quick check of all my
>> software to see if it was still running, guess I didn't check fully
>> enough. While all my software works under Vista, except for AVG
>> antivirus as far as I can tell so far I didn't check every feature in
>> every application to see if everything still works as it should. That
>> would be endless.
>>
>> Well darn the luck. I just started to use a application I hadn't
>> tested aside from seeing if it worked at the most basic level, which
>> it did. To put it simply, now that I'm really starting to get back to
>> work and trying to seriously use my software, this one package at
>> least looks strange if I go to certain menu choices. They're simply
>> gone. In their place are huge blank white areas where program controls
>> use to be. How's that for frustrating? This application of course
>> worked fine under XP.
>>
>> So again for about the 20th time since installed Vista I had to stop
>> what I was doing and start to troubleshoot what Vista messed up.
>> Couldn't find out what happened except it obviously didn't transfer
>> everything to the Registry correctly. I was able to reinstall the
>> application and again it seems to be working alright, but just another
>> nail in Vista's coffin. Vista was extensively tested before release?
>> LOL! Sure, and I'm the king of England.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:16:20 -0500, "BobS" <no-> wrote:

>Adam,
>
>Your posts are interesting to read and you do an excellent job of noting
>details - to an extent... Since many of us have a lot invested in software
>also (CAD and Photo editing) would you mind including what software you're
>having a problem with?

Oops... I knew I forgot something. I was referring to Sony's DVD
Architect which is a professional level DVD Authoring application.
The normal tools were there on the fist page which is the work area
where you create a DVD menu, but clicking on preview which takes you
to a second page that has a remote control to test how your finished
DVD's will look was blank and had a nearly totally blank tool bar, so
I was stuck on that page with no way to get back to the main page.
Like I said a reinstall of the application did fix things. I'm almost
afraid to check out Photoshop but I will later tonight or over the
weekend.

Another little thing I noticed is one of the tools in Sony's Vegas, a
pro video editor I use quite a bit the eye dropper tools where you can
select a area to set white or black points similar to Photoshop still
works but instead of the selection area being selected as it was
before now gets filled in with gibberish, yet the filter still seems
to work ok. That sounds more like a driver issue, yet it wasn't there
in XP.

>I have an "escalated" problem with nVidia nForce4 drivers now that's driving
>me - and them - nuts at the moment. Asus just keeps pointing their finger
>at Nvidia and Nvidia is shrugging their shoulders. But I'm sure they'll be
>able to reproduce the problem(s) and work out a driver fix. Meanwhile, I've
>got a triple boot system going here for test with WinXP still the bread
>winner for now while we get the young 'uns whipped into shape.

This morning I went directly to the NVidia site and download a beta
driver for my Gforce 7600 GT. Driver version 7.15.10.9746 dated
12/7/06 which replaced the generic Microsoft NVidia driver. Don't see
any difference. Everything seems ok, except for the odd horizontial
line problem I mentioned that seems more like some issue with Media
Player since every other player I've tried plays any MPEG-2 or DivX or
AVI even MOV file fine.

On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:26:09 -0500, "Dale White"
<> wrote:

>Bob, What is the problem with installing software with UAC off ? I have UAC
>disabled and don't plan to ever enabled it. Why would having UAC off cause a
>problem ?

Excuse me if I jump in. Basically a nag screen that gets old fast.
Unlike XP and earlier versions of Windows where a Administrator could
pretty much do anything, even if you are a Administrator Vista now by
default nags if you do things that could effect the system. Some more
serious, like nagging every time you want to add new software to less
serious things like changing the time to viewing Device Manager, stuff
like that. I didn't disable it yet, but its getting on my nerves.

Just peeking around I discovered a way to change the User Account
Control more to your liking: (you need to have adminisrator rights)

Microsoft's idea of being cute is sort of "hiding" a hidden management
Console. Try clicking on the start button then enter: secpol.msc

Your screen will go dark gray, Windows will nag, press the continue
button and you can customize Vista to be less of a nag. One
mother-in-law is enough. <wink> You'll find a whole laundry list of
stuff you can tweak especially under the User Rights Assignment and
Security Options folders.

"Adam Albright" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:26:09 -0500, "Dale White"

> Microsoft's idea of being cute is sort of "hiding" a hidden management
> Console. Try clicking on the start button then enter: secpol.msc
>
> Your screen will go dark gray, Windows will nag, press the continue
> button and you can customize Vista to be less of a nag. One
> mother-in-law is enough. <wink> You'll find a whole laundry list of
> stuff you can tweak especially under the User Rights Assignment and
> Security Options folders.
>

Jumping back in. How is Microsoft being cute ? This is an option under XP
pro's Admin tools called Local Policy settings. If you're running Ultimate
and Enterprise, its under Admin tools and called Local Policy settings as
well. Of course, you have to enable your admin tools to be viewable via the
Start menu or find it in the control panel

But it is a nice little interface to tweak away with. but it's not a tool
that novice users should get a hold of, else they might cause themselves
some heartaches.

Adam,

Thanks for the details - you're pushing some serious code there I see.... I
have yet to start my application testing (AutoCad, MicroStation, PhotoShop,
along with all the usual utilities, add-on's, etc. I've loaded up a
"business" configuration (Office Suite, NAV, some utilities ) so I can
baseline the system so to speak and find the holes and bugs before I throw a
lot of other third party software at it.

I would like to move to x64 on a SATA drive but therein lies the proverbial
rub.... Vista x64 nForce4 drivers are not ready for prime time yet I
believe. Although it come be something else - that's where it lies right
now and since Nvidia decided to escalate the issue - they probably know more
than what they've said so far. We can wait - I have x64 on an IDE drive and
playing with it there.

Thanks for clarifying the software - I don't have those app's so I can go
party............;-)

Bob S.


"Adam Albright" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:16:20 -0500, "BobS" <no-> wrote:
>
>>Adam,
>>
>>Your posts are interesting to read and you do an excellent job of noting
>>details - to an extent... Since many of us have a lot invested in
>>software
>>also (CAD and Photo editing) would you mind including what software you're
>>having a problem with?
>
> Oops... I knew I forgot something. I was referring to Sony's DVD
> Architect which is a professional level DVD Authoring application.
> The normal tools were there on the fist page which is the work area
> where you create a DVD menu, but clicking on preview which takes you
> to a second page that has a remote control to test how your finished
> DVD's will look was blank and had a nearly totally blank tool bar, so
> I was stuck on that page with no way to get back to the main page.
> Like I said a reinstall of the application did fix things. I'm almost
> afraid to check out Photoshop but I will later tonight or over the
> weekend.
>
> Another little thing I noticed is one of the tools in Sony's Vegas, a
> pro video editor I use quite a bit the eye dropper tools where you can
> select a area to set white or black points similar to Photoshop still
> works but instead of the selection area being selected as it was
> before now gets filled in with gibberish, yet the filter still seems
> to work ok. That sounds more like a driver issue, yet it wasn't there
> in XP.
>
>>I have an "escalated" problem with nVidia nForce4 drivers now that's
>>driving
>>me - and them - nuts at the moment. Asus just keeps pointing their finger
>>at Nvidia and Nvidia is shrugging their shoulders. But I'm sure they'll
>>be
>>able to reproduce the problem(s) and work out a driver fix. Meanwhile,
>>I've
>>got a triple boot system going here for test with WinXP still the bread
>>winner for now while we get the young 'uns whipped into shape.
>
> This morning I went directly to the NVidia site and download a beta
> driver for my Gforce 7600 GT. Driver version 7.15.10.9746 dated
> 12/7/06 which replaced the generic Microsoft NVidia driver. Don't see
> any difference. Everything seems ok, except for the odd horizontial
> line problem I mentioned that seems more like some issue with Media
> Player since every other player I've tried plays any MPEG-2 or DivX or
> AVI even MOV file fine.
>
>
>

Dale,

Basically, the software (written for WinXP) is being blocked from writing to
"wherever" it has to be written to when UAC is off. Cisco VPN is one
example where it was erring out on registering some dll's and even being
blocked from writing to a temp directory. After turning UAC back on, those
errors went away. The VPN software is supposedly not compatible with Vista
but I read that it will run if given WinXP credentials. That did make a
difference but I haven't connected up with the VPN server yet to test it.

Microsoft Office 2003 another example - UAC off and MS Office went thru the
whole install - not a single burp ---- but it did not fully install. Had
parts of Office Tools, had Excel and PP but no MS Word (did a Typical
Install) to be found - weird.

Turned UAC back on - did the install - no problem. As I stated - I got the
book but haven't had much chance to look at it with all the other alligators
vying for attention.

Wish I could tell you more but I didn't go back thru and logs to see what,
if any, errors or alerts were being logged. Simply testing with UAC on or
off and noted the differences. Some programs, such as print server
utilities simply bombed out from the git-go with all sorts of error
codes/messages. Turn UAC on, worked fine.

With UAC off, I did load MS Access but I haven't tested against a database
yet. That loaded without incident and I'm almost 100% sure UAC was off.
I'm sure I'll be reloading it a time or two and I'll verify but if there are
some tweaks to make UAC less annoying - that's what I'll be testing against.
So Adam, document the hell out of your wanderings with secpol.msc.

Bob S.


"Dale White" <> wrote in message
news:1I-...
> Bob, What is the problem with installing software with UAC off ? I have
> UAC disabled and don't plan to ever enabled it. Why would having UAC off
> cause a problem ?
>
> "BobS" <no-> wrote in message
> news:O75T$...
>
>> One more point since I believe you mentioned that you turned off UAC.
>> Not a good idea as I've learned when installing software. Be sure UAC is
>> ON, then reinstall the software and you just may notice a big
>> difference - I did..
>>
>> Certainly don't mean to preach to the choir but thought maybe you're
>> focused a bit tight right now with getting your system up and documenting
>> the trials and tribulations too. Appreciate you're doing so -
>> really....fewer headaches we have to go thru....;-)
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bob S.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Adam Albright" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> If Vista makes a mirror image of settings and applications as claimed
>>> if you do a install in place to save from having to reinstall your
>>> applications the following can't happen, but it does.
>>>
>>> You're probably tired of me saying I have lots of software. Well I do.
>>> After successfully installing Vista and doing a quick check of all my
>>> software to see if it was still running, guess I didn't check fully
>>> enough. While all my software works under Vista, except for AVG
>>> antivirus as far as I can tell so far I didn't check every feature in
>>> every application to see if everything still works as it should. That
>>> would be endless.
>>>
>>> Well darn the luck. I just started to use a application I hadn't
>>> tested aside from seeing if it worked at the most basic level, which
>>> it did. To put it simply, now that I'm really starting to get back to
>>> work and trying to seriously use my software, this one package at
>>> least looks strange if I go to certain menu choices. They're simply
>>> gone. In their place are huge blank white areas where program controls
>>> use to be. How's that for frustrating? This application of course
>>> worked fine under XP.
>>>
>>> So again for about the 20th time since installed Vista I had to stop
>>> what I was doing and start to troubleshoot what Vista messed up.
>>> Couldn't find out what happened except it obviously didn't transfer
>>> everything to the Registry correctly. I was able to reinstall the
>>> application and again it seems to be working alright, but just another
>>> nail in Vista's coffin. Vista was extensively tested before release?
>>> LOL! Sure, and I'm the king of England.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Hmm, Bob that sure sounds interesting. I'm going to have to play around with
it and see what I can find. You know there is vista supported Cisco client
out, I installed it and it worked fine so far. You can get it here
http://www.bu.edu/nsg/vpn/ms/testmsvpn.htm

I tried to install the version our customers gave us, but it give me an
error on a DLL file it apparently wants. This happens whether I have UAC on
or OFF.

I've installed Office 2003 Pro on 2 different system, both with UAC off and
so far everything works. Though I've only really used Outlook. I did open up
an XLS and PPT file and they both opened fine. I've installed several games
FEAR, BF2, BF2142, BF1942, Doom3, FarCry, 3dMark06 and apps like Office 2003
Pro, Streets 2007, ACDSee 7.0, Java 1.5.10, Norton Anti-virus Corp Edt 10.2,
Quicktime 7.1.3, Adobe reader 8.0, DUmeter 3.2, ATI's 7,1 drivers and
Control Panel, Winzip 10 and Winrar 3.2 all with UAC off and haven't hit a
problem yet. This is with Vista Home Prem, Enterprise and Ultimate

Roxio Easy CD\DVD 9.0 gave me a compliant about the Sonic driver not being
supported and thus disabled, so I tried your recommendation and installed it
with UAC on. Still, it complains about that driver. Not sure what it does,
as so far I haven't had an issue with burning DVDs. Though my testing is
limited.

It sounds like you might have some other kind of crazy permission things
going on. I should note, one of the first things I do, is grant everyone
full control of the hard drive, instead of the limited access it starts
with. Under User accounts, did you click the option to give yourself
"God-like" control ?




"BobS" <no-> wrote in message
news:...
> Dale,
>
> Basically, the software (written for WinXP) is being blocked from writing
> to "wherever" it has to be written to when UAC is off. Cisco VPN is one
> example where it was erring out on registering some dll's and even being
> blocked from writing to a temp directory. After turning UAC back on,
> those errors went away. The VPN software is supposedly not compatible
> with Vista but I read that it will run if given WinXP credentials. That
> did make a difference but I haven't connected up with the VPN server yet
> to test it.
>
> Microsoft Office 2003 another example - UAC off and MS Office went thru
> the whole install - not a single burp ---- but it did not fully install.
> Had parts of Office Tools, had Excel and PP but no MS Word (did a Typical
> Install) to be found - weird.
>
> Turned UAC back on - did the install - no problem. As I stated - I got
> the book but haven't had much chance to look at it with all the other
> alligators vying for attention.
>
> Wish I could tell you more but I didn't go back thru and logs to see what,
> if any, errors or alerts were being logged. Simply testing with UAC on or
> off and noted the differences. Some programs, such as print server
> utilities simply bombed out from the git-go with all sorts of error
> codes/messages. Turn UAC on, worked fine.
>
> With UAC off, I did load MS Access but I haven't tested against a database
> yet. That loaded without incident and I'm almost 100% sure UAC was off.
> I'm sure I'll be reloading it a time or two and I'll verify but if there
> are some tweaks to make UAC less annoying - that's what I'll be testing
> against. So Adam, document the hell out of your wanderings with
> secpol.msc.
>
> Bob S.
>
>
> "Dale White" <> wrote in message
> news:1I-...
>> Bob, What is the problem with installing software with UAC off ? I have
>> UAC disabled and don't plan to ever enabled it. Why would having UAC off
>> cause a problem ?
>>
>> "BobS" <no-> wrote in message
>> news:O75T$...
>>
>>> One more point since I believe you mentioned that you turned off UAC.
>>> Not a good idea as I've learned when installing software. Be sure UAC
>>> is ON, then reinstall the software and you just may notice a big
>>> difference - I did..
>>>
>>> Certainly don't mean to preach to the choir but thought maybe you're
>>> focused a bit tight right now with getting your system up and
>>> documenting the trials and tribulations too. Appreciate you're doing
>>> so - really....fewer headaches we have to go thru....;-)
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Bob S.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Adam Albright" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> If Vista makes a mirror image of settings and applications as claimed
>>>> if you do a install in place to save from having to reinstall your
>>>> applications the following can't happen, but it does.
>>>>
>>>> You're probably tired of me saying I have lots of software. Well I do.
>>>> After successfully installing Vista and doing a quick check of all my
>>>> software to see if it was still running, guess I didn't check fully
>>>> enough. While all my software works under Vista, except for AVG
>>>> antivirus as far as I can tell so far I didn't check every feature in
>>>> every application to see if everything still works as it should. That
>>>> would be endless.
>>>>
>>>> Well darn the luck. I just started to use a application I hadn't
>>>> tested aside from seeing if it worked at the most basic level, which
>>>> it did. To put it simply, now that I'm really starting to get back to
>>>> work and trying to seriously use my software, this one package at
>>>> least looks strange if I go to certain menu choices. They're simply
>>>> gone. In their place are huge blank white areas where program controls
>>>> use to be. How's that for frustrating? This application of course
>>>> worked fine under XP.
>>>>
>>>> So again for about the 20th time since installed Vista I had to stop
>>>> what I was doing and start to troubleshoot what Vista messed up.
>>>> Couldn't find out what happened except it obviously didn't transfer
>>>> everything to the Registry correctly. I was able to reinstall the
>>>> application and again it seems to be working alright, but just another
>>>> nail in Vista's coffin. Vista was extensively tested before release?
>>>> LOL! Sure, and I'm the king of England.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>