Vista Incremental backup Query : Home Premium Edition

Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based external disk.
Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have now done
2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup set. The
size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number of files I
have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files being backed
up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup. What can
be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look at in
order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date archived' then I
can see that this field is not populated.

Are you positive you are using "Incremental" vice "Differential"? Also if
HD is defragged between backups - file will be large.

"NickT" <> wrote in message
news:C5C11E1D-5E85-48A4-9A8C-...
> Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based external
> disk.
> Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have now
> done
> 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup set.
> The
> size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number of
> files I
> have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files being
> backed
> up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup. What
> can
> be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look at in
> order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date archived'
> then I
> can see that this field is not populated.

Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of backup,
unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't seem to
use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will step in
here and provide a more detailed explanation?

Stuart.
--------

"NickT" wrote:

> Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based external disk.
> Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have now done
> 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup set. The
> size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number of files I
> have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files being backed
> up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup. What can
> be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look at in
> order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date archived' then I
> can see that this field is not populated.

I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom out how
they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an Incremental and
only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup set. In
response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential backup in
Vista Backup utility?

I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of backup
files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size . This last
incremental since last week was 63GB!!

I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo Gallery make
updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and videos.
Let's see what MS say.

"Stuart [MVP]" wrote:

> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of backup,
> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't seem to
> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will step in
> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
>
> Stuart.
> --------
>
> "NickT" wrote:
>
> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based external disk.
> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have now done
> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup set. The
> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number of files I
> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files being backed
> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup. What can
> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look at in
> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date archived' then I
> > can see that this field is not populated.

A couple answers for the thread:

Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does. That is,
with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.

Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because some
program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting something
in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or something
like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties may lead
to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent directory and
compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the files
into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.

Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation date,
modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible via the
cmd, only programmatically).

From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup apps and
didn't work well in its day.

If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take a look
and tell you what's happening.

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.


"NickT" <> wrote in message
news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
>I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom out how
> they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an Incremental
> and
> only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup set. In
> response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential backup in
> Vista Backup utility?
>
> I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of backup
> files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size . This last
> incremental since last week was 63GB!!
>
> I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo Gallery
> make
> updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and videos.
> Let's see what MS say.
>
> "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of
>> backup,
>> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't seem
>> to
>> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will
>> step in
>> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
>>
>> Stuart.
>> --------
>>
>> "NickT" wrote:
>>
>> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based external
>> > disk.
>> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have now
>> > done
>> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup
>> > set. The
>> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number of
>> > files I
>> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files being
>> > backed
>> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup.
>> > What can
>> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look at
>> > in
>> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date archived'
>> > then I
>> > can see that this field is not populated.

Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do think it
strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at and how
i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to what might
be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I really think
some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of photos,
music and video files in future release as it is these that for me and
probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be treated
differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should occur
(e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).

Thanks
"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:

> A couple answers for the thread:
>
> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does. That is,
> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
>
> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because some
> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting something
> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or something
> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties may lead
> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent directory and
> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the files
> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.
>
> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation date,
> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible via the
> cmd, only programmatically).
>
> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup apps and
> didn't work well in its day.
>
> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take a look
> and tell you what's happening.
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>
>
> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom out how
> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an Incremental
> > and
> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup set. In
> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential backup in
> > Vista Backup utility?
> >
> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of backup
> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size . This last
> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
> >
> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo Gallery
> > make
> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and videos.
> > Let's see what MS say.
> >
> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of
> >> backup,
> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't seem
> >> to
> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will
> >> step in
> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
> >>
> >> Stuart.
> >> --------
> >>
> >> "NickT" wrote:
> >>
> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based external
> >> > disk.
> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have now
> >> > done
> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup
> >> > set. The
> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number of
> >> > files I
> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files being
> >> > backed
> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup.
> >> > What can
> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look at
> >> > in
> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date archived'
> >> > then I
> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
>
>

I'm checking to see which files to send us. I will also talk to the
development team about this issue because it is a pain to keep backing up
your music files each time, even though you don't change them.

Personally, I use Synctoy to back up (to removable disk) videos and music
files that I store on my desktop computer. This has been working well for
me. You can download it from
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en.

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.



"NickT" <> wrote in message
news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do think
> it
> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at and
> how
> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to what
> might
> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I really
> think
> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of photos,
> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me and
> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
> treated
> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should occur
> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
>
> Thanks
> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>
>> A couple answers for the thread:
>>
>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does. That
>> is,
>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
>>
>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because some
>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
>> something
>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
>> something
>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties may
>> lead
>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent directory
>> and
>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the files
>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.
>>
>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
>> date,
>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible via
>> the
>> cmd, only programmatically).
>>
>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup apps
>> and
>> didn't work well in its day.
>>
>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take a
>> look
>> and tell you what's happening.
>>
>> --
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>>
>>
>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom out
>> >how
>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an Incremental
>> > and
>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup set.
>> > In
>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential backup
>> > in
>> > Vista Backup utility?
>> >
>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of
>> > backup
>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size . This
>> > last
>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
>> >
>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo Gallery
>> > make
>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
>> > videos.
>> > Let's see what MS say.
>> >
>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of
>> >> backup,
>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't
>> >> seem
>> >> to
>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will
>> >> step in
>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
>> >>
>> >> Stuart.
>> >> --------
>> >>
>> >> "NickT" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
>> >> > external
>> >> > disk.
>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have
>> >> > now
>> >> > done
>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup
>> >> > set. The
>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number
>> >> > of
>> >> > files I
>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files
>> >> > being
>> >> > backed
>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup.
>> >> > What can
>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look
>> >> > at
>> >> > in
>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
>> >> > archived'
>> >> > then I
>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
>>
>>

Ok Jill I'll hang loose until you know what I need to send. Will hold of on
using addtional tools like synctoy until I know exactly what happened. My
videos and pictures take up most space so it'll be them primarily and then
the music files in second place that better solutions for backing up might
need to be included in future releases.

"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:

> I'm checking to see which files to send us. I will also talk to the
> development team about this issue because it is a pain to keep backing up
> your music files each time, even though you don't change them.
>
> Personally, I use Synctoy to back up (to removable disk) videos and music
> files that I store on my desktop computer. This has been working well for
> me. You can download it from
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en.
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>
>
>
> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
> > Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do think
> > it
> > strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at and
> > how
> > i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to what
> > might
> > be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I really
> > think
> > some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of photos,
> > music and video files in future release as it is these that for me and
> > probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
> > treated
> > differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should occur
> > (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
> >
> > Thanks
> > "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
> >
> >> A couple answers for the thread:
> >>
> >> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does. That
> >> is,
> >> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
> >>
> >> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because some
> >> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
> >> something
> >> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
> >> something
> >> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties may
> >> lead
> >> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent directory
> >> and
> >> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the files
> >> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.
> >>
> >> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
> >> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
> >> date,
> >> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible via
> >> the
> >> cmd, only programmatically).
> >>
> >> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup apps
> >> and
> >> didn't work well in its day.
> >>
> >> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take a
> >> look
> >> and tell you what's happening.
> >>
> >> --
> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> rights.
> >>
> >> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> >> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >>
> >>
> >> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> >> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
> >> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom out
> >> >how
> >> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an Incremental
> >> > and
> >> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup set.
> >> > In
> >> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential backup
> >> > in
> >> > Vista Backup utility?
> >> >
> >> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of
> >> > backup
> >> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size . This
> >> > last
> >> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
> >> >
> >> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo Gallery
> >> > make
> >> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
> >> > videos.
> >> > Let's see what MS say.
> >> >
> >> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of
> >> >> backup,
> >> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't
> >> >> seem
> >> >> to
> >> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will
> >> >> step in
> >> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
> >> >>
> >> >> Stuart.
> >> >> --------
> >> >>
> >> >> "NickT" wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
> >> >> > external
> >> >> > disk.
> >> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have
> >> >> > now
> >> >> > done
> >> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup
> >> >> > set. The
> >> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > files I
> >> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files
> >> >> > being
> >> >> > backed
> >> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup.
> >> >> > What can
> >> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look
> >> >> > at
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
> >> >> > archived'
> >> >> > then I
> >> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
> >>
> >>
>
>

I'm waiting for instructions on how to get your catalog files. They are
stored under System Volume Information, which is pretty locked down.
Supposedly there is a way to grab those files without changing permissions,
but the instructions I was given aren't working. I'll post them here when I
have them.

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.


"NickT" <> wrote in message
news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do think
> it
> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at and
> how
> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to what
> might
> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I really
> think
> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of photos,
> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me and
> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
> treated
> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should occur
> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
>
> Thanks
> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>
>> A couple answers for the thread:
>>
>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does. That
>> is,
>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
>>
>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because some
>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
>> something
>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
>> something
>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties may
>> lead
>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent directory
>> and
>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the files
>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.
>>
>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
>> date,
>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible via
>> the
>> cmd, only programmatically).
>>
>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup apps
>> and
>> didn't work well in its day.
>>
>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take a
>> look
>> and tell you what's happening.
>>
>> --
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>>
>>
>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom out
>> >how
>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an Incremental
>> > and
>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup set.
>> > In
>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential backup
>> > in
>> > Vista Backup utility?
>> >
>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of
>> > backup
>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size . This
>> > last
>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
>> >
>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo Gallery
>> > make
>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
>> > videos.
>> > Let's see what MS say.
>> >
>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of
>> >> backup,
>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't
>> >> seem
>> >> to
>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will
>> >> step in
>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
>> >>
>> >> Stuart.
>> >> --------
>> >>
>> >> "NickT" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
>> >> > external
>> >> > disk.
>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have
>> >> > now
>> >> > done
>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same backup
>> >> > set. The
>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number
>> >> > of
>> >> > files I
>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files
>> >> > being
>> >> > backed
>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full backup.
>> >> > What can
>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look
>> >> > at
>> >> > in
>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
>> >> > archived'
>> >> > then I
>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
>>
>>

OK, here are the steps to getting the catalog files.

1. Start the command prompt as an administrator.
2. Type the following text:

cd /d "c:\System Volume Information\Windows Backup"

3. Type the following text:

CD catalogs

4. Now type "dir" and press Enter. You should see two catalog files listed.

5. Type the following:

copy *.* c:\

6. Zip up those two files and email them to me (remove "online" from my
address).

Thanks!

--
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"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
news:...
> I'm waiting for instructions on how to get your catalog files. They are
> stored under System Volume Information, which is pretty locked down.
> Supposedly there is a way to grab those files without changing
> permissions, but the instructions I was given aren't working. I'll post
> them here when I have them.
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>
> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>
>
> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
>> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do
>> think it
>> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at and
>> how
>> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to what
>> might
>> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I really
>> think
>> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of photos,
>> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me and
>> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
>> treated
>> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should occur
>> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
>>
>> Thanks
>> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>>
>>> A couple answers for the thread:
>>>
>>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does. That
>>> is,
>>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
>>>
>>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because some
>>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
>>> something
>>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
>>> something
>>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties may
>>> lead
>>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent directory
>>> and
>>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the
>>> files
>>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.
>>>
>>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
>>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
>>> date,
>>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible via
>>> the
>>> cmd, only programmatically).
>>>
>>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup apps
>>> and
>>> didn't work well in its day.
>>>
>>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take a
>>> look
>>> and tell you what's happening.
>>>
>>> --
>>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>>> rights.
>>>
>>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
>>> our
>>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>>>
>>>
>>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
>>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
>>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom out
>>> >how
>>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an
>>> > Incremental
>>> > and
>>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup set.
>>> > In
>>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential backup
>>> > in
>>> > Vista Backup utility?
>>> >
>>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of
>>> > backup
>>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size . This
>>> > last
>>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
>>> >
>>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo
>>> > Gallery
>>> > make
>>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
>>> > videos.
>>> > Let's see what MS say.
>>> >
>>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of
>>> >> backup,
>>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't
>>> >> seem
>>> >> to
>>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will
>>> >> step in
>>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
>>> >>
>>> >> Stuart.
>>> >> --------
>>> >>
>>> >> "NickT" wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
>>> >> > external
>>> >> > disk.
>>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have
>>> >> > now
>>> >> > done
>>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same
>>> >> > backup
>>> >> > set. The
>>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number
>>> >> > of
>>> >> > files I
>>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files
>>> >> > being
>>> >> > backed
>>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full
>>> >> > backup.
>>> >> > What can
>>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look
>>> >> > at
>>> >> > in
>>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
>>> >> > archived'
>>> >> > then I
>>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
>>>
>>>
>