Vista Incremental backup Query : Home Premium Edition

Jill,

Sorry for the long silence but for some reason I didn't get an E-mail
saying that you had responded. I guess if you do two responses one after the
other I don't get notice of second one. Anyway I will eventually send you
files requested although I think I know what it is now. I'm having problems
with Windows Media Player and Windows Photo Gallery. The Media Player library
keeps corrupting and I have to rebuild it. I suspect now that as the library
is rebuilt my multi-media file headers are updated somehow and that causes
the large incrementals to occur. What do you think?

On another topic. What is the difference between Backup and Restore and
Windows Easy Transfer? I have to re-install Vista and I need to backup all my
stuff beforehand and then restore once re-install is completed. What do you
recommend and why?

Thanks

"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:

> OK, here are the steps to getting the catalog files.
>
> 1. Start the command prompt as an administrator.
> 2. Type the following text:
>
> cd /d "c:\System Volume Information\Windows Backup"
>
> 3. Type the following text:
>
> CD catalogs
>
> 4. Now type "dir" and press Enter. You should see two catalog files listed.
>
> 5. Type the following:
>
> copy *.* c:\
>
> 6. Zip up those two files and email them to me (remove "online" from my
> address).
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>
>
> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > I'm waiting for instructions on how to get your catalog files. They are
> > stored under System Volume Information, which is pretty locked down.
> > Supposedly there is a way to grab those files without changing
> > permissions, but the instructions I was given aren't working. I'll post
> > them here when I have them.
> >
> > --
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > rights.
> >
> > Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> > team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >
> >
> > "NickT" <> wrote in message
> > news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
> >> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do
> >> think it
> >> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at and
> >> how
> >> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to what
> >> might
> >> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I really
> >> think
> >> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of photos,
> >> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me and
> >> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
> >> treated
> >> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should occur
> >> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
> >>
> >>> A couple answers for the thread:
> >>>
> >>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does. That
> >>> is,
> >>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
> >>>
> >>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because some
> >>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
> >>> something
> >>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
> >>> something
> >>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties may
> >>> lead
> >>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent directory
> >>> and
> >>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the
> >>> files
> >>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.
> >>>
> >>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
> >>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
> >>> date,
> >>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible via
> >>> the
> >>> cmd, only programmatically).
> >>>
> >>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup apps
> >>> and
> >>> didn't work well in its day.
> >>>
> >>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take a
> >>> look
> >>> and tell you what's happening.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >>> rights.
> >>>
> >>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
> >>> our
> >>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> >>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
> >>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom out
> >>> >how
> >>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an
> >>> > Incremental
> >>> > and
> >>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup set.
> >>> > In
> >>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential backup
> >>> > in
> >>> > Vista Backup utility?
> >>> >
> >>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of
> >>> > backup
> >>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size . This
> >>> > last
> >>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
> >>> >
> >>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo
> >>> > Gallery
> >>> > make
> >>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
> >>> > videos.
> >>> > Let's see what MS say.
> >>> >
> >>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type of
> >>> >> backup,
> >>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and doesn't
> >>> >> seem
> >>> >> to
> >>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS will
> >>> >> step in
> >>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Stuart.
> >>> >> --------
> >>> >>
> >>> >> "NickT" wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
> >>> >> > external
> >>> >> > disk.
> >>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago. Have
> >>> >> > now
> >>> >> > done
> >>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same
> >>> >> > backup
> >>> >> > set. The
> >>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the number
> >>> >> > of
> >>> >> > files I
> >>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files
> >>> >> > being
> >>> >> > backed
> >>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full
> >>> >> > backup.
> >>> >> > What can
> >>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program look
> >>> >> > at
> >>> >> > in
> >>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
> >>> >> > archived'
> >>> >> > then I
> >>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>
>

We had another customer with a similar report of large incremental backups,
so he's sending us the catalog for review. We suspect his media files are
changing due to a sync process. Anyway, it will be interesting to figure
this out.

I'm not that familiar with Easy Transfer's inner workings, but I do know it
worked fantastically for me when I migrated my old XP laptop's data to a new
Vista laptop. Double-check that it will work Vista-to-Vista (I'm not sure).
Assuming it works, I would probably use a combination of both--make a backup
for safekeeping and then use the transfer wizard.

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.


"NickT" <> wrote in message
news:06618521-79C8-436A-B599-...
> Jill,
>
> Sorry for the long silence but for some reason I didn't get an E-mail
> saying that you had responded. I guess if you do two responses one after
> the
> other I don't get notice of second one. Anyway I will eventually send you
> files requested although I think I know what it is now. I'm having
> problems
> with Windows Media Player and Windows Photo Gallery. The Media Player
> library
> keeps corrupting and I have to rebuild it. I suspect now that as the
> library
> is rebuilt my multi-media file headers are updated somehow and that causes
> the large incrementals to occur. What do you think?
>
> On another topic. What is the difference between Backup and Restore and
> Windows Easy Transfer? I have to re-install Vista and I need to backup all
> my
> stuff beforehand and then restore once re-install is completed. What do
> you
> recommend and why?
>
> Thanks
>
> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>
>> OK, here are the steps to getting the catalog files.
>>
>> 1. Start the command prompt as an administrator.
>> 2. Type the following text:
>>
>> cd /d "c:\System Volume Information\Windows Backup"
>>
>> 3. Type the following text:
>>
>> CD catalogs
>>
>> 4. Now type "dir" and press Enter. You should see two catalog files
>> listed.
>>
>> 5. Type the following:
>>
>> copy *.* c:\
>>
>> 6. Zip up those two files and email them to me (remove "online" from my
>> address).
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>>
>>
>> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>> > I'm waiting for instructions on how to get your catalog files. They are
>> > stored under System Volume Information, which is pretty locked down.
>> > Supposedly there is a way to grab those files without changing
>> > permissions, but the instructions I was given aren't working. I'll post
>> > them here when I have them.
>> >
>> > --
>> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> > rights.
>> >
>> > Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
>> > our
>> > team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>> >
>> >
>> > "NickT" <> wrote in message
>> > news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
>> >> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do
>> >> think it
>> >> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at
>> >> and
>> >> how
>> >> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to
>> >> what
>> >> might
>> >> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I really
>> >> think
>> >> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of
>> >> photos,
>> >> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me and
>> >> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
>> >> treated
>> >> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should
>> >> occur
>> >> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> A couple answers for the thread:
>> >>>
>> >>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does.
>> >>> That
>> >>> is,
>> >>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
>> >>>
>> >>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because
>> >>> some
>> >>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
>> >>> something
>> >>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
>> >>> something
>> >>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties
>> >>> may
>> >>> lead
>> >>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent
>> >>> directory
>> >>> and
>> >>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the
>> >>> files
>> >>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.
>> >>>
>> >>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
>> >>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
>> >>> date,
>> >>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible
>> >>> via
>> >>> the
>> >>> cmd, only programmatically).
>> >>>
>> >>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup
>> >>> apps
>> >>> and
>> >>> didn't work well in its day.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take
>> >>> a
>> >>> look
>> >>> and tell you what's happening.
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> >>> rights.
>> >>>
>> >>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
>> >>> our
>> >>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
>> >>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
>> >>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom
>> >>> >out
>> >>> >how
>> >>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an
>> >>> > Incremental
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup
>> >>> > set.
>> >>> > In
>> >>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential
>> >>> > backup
>> >>> > in
>> >>> > Vista Backup utility?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of
>> >>> > backup
>> >>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size .
>> >>> > This
>> >>> > last
>> >>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo
>> >>> > Gallery
>> >>> > make
>> >>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
>> >>> > videos.
>> >>> > Let's see what MS say.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type
>> >>> >> of
>> >>> >> backup,
>> >>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and
>> >>> >> doesn't
>> >>> >> seem
>> >>> >> to
>> >>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS
>> >>> >> will
>> >>> >> step in
>> >>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Stuart.
>> >>> >> --------
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> "NickT" wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
>> >>> >> > external
>> >>> >> > disk.
>> >>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago.
>> >>> >> > Have
>> >>> >> > now
>> >>> >> > done
>> >>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same
>> >>> >> > backup
>> >>> >> > set. The
>> >>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the
>> >>> >> > number
>> >>> >> > of
>> >>> >> > files I
>> >>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files
>> >>> >> > being
>> >>> >> > backed
>> >>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full
>> >>> >> > backup.
>> >>> >> > What can
>> >>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program
>> >>> >> > look
>> >>> >> > at
>> >>> >> > in
>> >>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
>> >>> >> > archived'
>> >>> >> > then I
>> >>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>>

Jill,

Can I point you to another entry that is very serious for me and occurred
when I was taking action to resolve some of the problems I was reporting to
you. Could I please ask that you look into that one as I can't restore my
photos nor home movies from the backup set.

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...a-376f43fb45f6

Thanks


"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
news:OI9$...
> We had another customer with a similar report of large incremental
> backups, so he's sending us the catalog for review. We suspect his media
> files are changing due to a sync process. Anyway, it will be interesting
> to figure this out.
>
> I'm not that familiar with Easy Transfer's inner workings, but I do know
> it worked fantastically for me when I migrated my old XP laptop's data to
> a new Vista laptop. Double-check that it will work Vista-to-Vista (I'm not
> sure). Assuming it works, I would probably use a combination of both--make
> a backup for safekeeping and then use the transfer wizard.
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>
> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>
>
> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> news:06618521-79C8-436A-B599-...
>> Jill,
>>
>> Sorry for the long silence but for some reason I didn't get an E-mail
>> saying that you had responded. I guess if you do two responses one after
>> the
>> other I don't get notice of second one. Anyway I will eventually send you
>> files requested although I think I know what it is now. I'm having
>> problems
>> with Windows Media Player and Windows Photo Gallery. The Media Player
>> library
>> keeps corrupting and I have to rebuild it. I suspect now that as the
>> library
>> is rebuilt my multi-media file headers are updated somehow and that
>> causes
>> the large incrementals to occur. What do you think?
>>
>> On another topic. What is the difference between Backup and Restore and
>> Windows Easy Transfer? I have to re-install Vista and I need to backup
>> all my
>> stuff beforehand and then restore once re-install is completed. What do
>> you
>> recommend and why?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>>
>>> OK, here are the steps to getting the catalog files.
>>>
>>> 1. Start the command prompt as an administrator.
>>> 2. Type the following text:
>>>
>>> cd /d "c:\System Volume Information\Windows Backup"
>>>
>>> 3. Type the following text:
>>>
>>> CD catalogs
>>>
>>> 4. Now type "dir" and press Enter. You should see two catalog files
>>> listed.
>>>
>>> 5. Type the following:
>>>
>>> copy *.* c:\
>>>
>>> 6. Zip up those two files and email them to me (remove "online" from my
>>> address).
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> --
>>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>>> rights.
>>>
>>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
>>> our
>>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>> > I'm waiting for instructions on how to get your catalog files. They
>>> > are
>>> > stored under System Volume Information, which is pretty locked down.
>>> > Supposedly there is a way to grab those files without changing
>>> > permissions, but the instructions I was given aren't working. I'll
>>> > post
>>> > them here when I have them.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>>> > rights.
>>> >
>>> > Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
>>> > our
>>> > team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "NickT" <> wrote in message
>>> > news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
>>> >> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do
>>> >> think it
>>> >> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at
>>> >> and
>>> >> how
>>> >> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to
>>> >> what
>>> >> might
>>> >> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I
>>> >> really
>>> >> think
>>> >> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of
>>> >> photos,
>>> >> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me
>>> >> and
>>> >> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
>>> >> treated
>>> >> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should
>>> >> occur
>>> >> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks
>>> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> A couple answers for the thread:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does.
>>> >>> That
>>> >>> is,
>>> >>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because
>>> >>> some
>>> >>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
>>> >>> something
>>> >>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
>>> >>> something
>>> >>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties
>>> >>> may
>>> >>> lead
>>> >>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent
>>> >>> directory
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the
>>> >>> files
>>> >>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them
>>> >>> again.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand
>>> >>> file
>>> >>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
>>> >>> date,
>>> >>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible
>>> >>> via
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> cmd, only programmatically).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup
>>> >>> apps
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> didn't work well in its day.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can
>>> >>> take a
>>> >>> look
>>> >>> and tell you what's happening.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>>> >>> rights.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies?
>>> >>> Visit
>>> >>> our
>>> >>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
>>> >>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
>>> >>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom
>>> >>> >out
>>> >>> >how
>>> >>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an
>>> >>> > Incremental
>>> >>> > and
>>> >>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup
>>> >>> > set.
>>> >>> > In
>>> >>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential
>>> >>> > backup
>>> >>> > in
>>> >>> > Vista Backup utility?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size
>>> >>> > of
>>> >>> > backup
>>> >>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size .
>>> >>> > This
>>> >>> > last
>>> >>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo
>>> >>> > Gallery
>>> >>> > make
>>> >>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
>>> >>> > videos.
>>> >>> > Let's see what MS say.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This
>>> >>> >> type of
>>> >>> >> backup,
>>> >>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and
>>> >>> >> doesn't
>>> >>> >> seem
>>> >>> >> to
>>> >>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS
>>> >>> >> will
>>> >>> >> step in
>>> >>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Stuart.
>>> >>> >> --------
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> "NickT" wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
>>> >>> >> > external
>>> >>> >> > disk.
>>> >>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago.
>>> >>> >> > Have
>>> >>> >> > now
>>> >>> >> > done
>>> >>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same
>>> >>> >> > backup
>>> >>> >> > set. The
>>> >>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the
>>> >>> >> > number
>>> >>> >> > of
>>> >>> >> > files I
>>> >>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see
>>> >>> >> > files
>>> >>> >> > being
>>> >>> >> > backed
>>> >>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full
>>> >>> >> > backup.
>>> >>> >> > What can
>>> >>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program
>>> >>> >> > look
>>> >>> >> > at
>>> >>> >> > in
>>> >>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
>>> >>> >> > archived'
>>> >>> >> > then I
>>> >>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>

Nick or Jill: Has anyone gotten to the bottom of the incremental file size
mystery yet? I'm of the opinion the file headers (or tags or whatever
they're called) are being modified by Vista's indexing utilities. I turned
off indexing on my mp3 folders and the incremental backups immediately became
a manageable and understandable size again. Also, I noticed before turning
off indexing that hundreds of mp3's were showing up when I clicked Recently
Changed. This also went away with indexing off.

"Nicholas Thompson - Me" wrote:

> Jill,
>
> Can I point you to another entry that is very serious for me and occurred
> when I was taking action to resolve some of the problems I was reporting to
> you. Could I please ask that you look into that one as I can't restore my
> photos nor home movies from the backup set.
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...a-376f43fb45f6
>
> Thanks
>
>
> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
> news:OI9$...
> > We had another customer with a similar report of large incremental
> > backups, so he's sending us the catalog for review. We suspect his media
> > files are changing due to a sync process. Anyway, it will be interesting
> > to figure this out.
> >
> > I'm not that familiar with Easy Transfer's inner workings, but I do know
> > it worked fantastically for me when I migrated my old XP laptop's data to
> > a new Vista laptop. Double-check that it will work Vista-to-Vista (I'm not
> > sure). Assuming it works, I would probably use a combination of both--make
> > a backup for safekeeping and then use the transfer wizard.
> >
> > --
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > rights.
> >
> > Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> > team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >
> >
> > "NickT" <> wrote in message
> > news:06618521-79C8-436A-B599-...
> >> Jill,
> >>
> >> Sorry for the long silence but for some reason I didn't get an E-mail
> >> saying that you had responded. I guess if you do two responses one after
> >> the
> >> other I don't get notice of second one. Anyway I will eventually send you
> >> files requested although I think I know what it is now. I'm having
> >> problems
> >> with Windows Media Player and Windows Photo Gallery. The Media Player
> >> library
> >> keeps corrupting and I have to rebuild it. I suspect now that as the
> >> library
> >> is rebuilt my multi-media file headers are updated somehow and that
> >> causes
> >> the large incrementals to occur. What do you think?
> >>
> >> On another topic. What is the difference between Backup and Restore and
> >> Windows Easy Transfer? I have to re-install Vista and I need to backup
> >> all my
> >> stuff beforehand and then restore once re-install is completed. What do
> >> you
> >> recommend and why?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
> >>
> >>> OK, here are the steps to getting the catalog files.
> >>>
> >>> 1. Start the command prompt as an administrator.
> >>> 2. Type the following text:
> >>>
> >>> cd /d "c:\System Volume Information\Windows Backup"
> >>>
> >>> 3. Type the following text:
> >>>
> >>> CD catalogs
> >>>
> >>> 4. Now type "dir" and press Enter. You should see two catalog files
> >>> listed.
> >>>
> >>> 5. Type the following:
> >>>
> >>> copy *.* c:\
> >>>
> >>> 6. Zip up those two files and email them to me (remove "online" from my
> >>> address).
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >>> rights.
> >>>
> >>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
> >>> our
> >>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
> >>> news:...
> >>> > I'm waiting for instructions on how to get your catalog files. They
> >>> > are
> >>> > stored under System Volume Information, which is pretty locked down.
> >>> > Supposedly there is a way to grab those files without changing
> >>> > permissions, but the instructions I was given aren't working. I'll
> >>> > post
> >>> > them here when I have them.
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >>> > rights.
> >>> >
> >>> > Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
> >>> > our
> >>> > team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > "NickT" <> wrote in message
> >>> > news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
> >>> >> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do
> >>> >> think it
> >>> >> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> how
> >>> >> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to
> >>> >> what
> >>> >> might
> >>> >> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I
> >>> >> really
> >>> >> think
> >>> >> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of
> >>> >> photos,
> >>> >> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
> >>> >> treated
> >>> >> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should
> >>> >> occur
> >>> >> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Thanks
> >>> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> A couple answers for the thread:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does.
> >>> >>> That
> >>> >>> is,
> >>> >>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because
> >>> >>> some
> >>> >>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
> >>> >>> something
> >>> >>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
> >>> >>> something
> >>> >>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties
> >>> >>> may
> >>> >>> lead
> >>> >>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent
> >>> >>> directory
> >>> >>> and
> >>> >>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the
> >>> >>> files
> >>> >>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them
> >>> >>> again.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand
> >>> >>> file
> >>> >>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
> >>> >>> date,
> >>> >>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible
> >>> >>> via
> >>> >>> the
> >>> >>> cmd, only programmatically).
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup
> >>> >>> apps
> >>> >>> and
> >>> >>> didn't work well in its day.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can
> >>> >>> take a
> >>> >>> look
> >>> >>> and tell you what's happening.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> --
> >>> >>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >>> >>> rights.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies?
> >>> >>> Visit
> >>> >>> our
> >>> >>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> >>> >>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
> >>> >>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom
> >>> >>> >out
> >>> >>> >how
> >>> >>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an
> >>> >>> > Incremental
> >>> >>> > and
> >>> >>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup
> >>> >>> > set.
> >>> >>> > In
> >>> >>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential
> >>> >>> > backup
> >>> >>> > in
> >>> >>> > Vista Backup utility?
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size
> >>> >>> > of
> >>> >>> > backup
> >>> >>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size .
> >>> >>> > This
> >>> >>> > last
> >>> >>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo
> >>> >>> > Gallery
> >>> >>> > make
> >>> >>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
> >>> >>> > videos.
> >>> >>> > Let's see what MS say.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This
> >>> >>> >> type of
> >>> >>> >> backup,
> >>> >>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and
> >>> >>> >> doesn't
> >>> >>> >> seem
> >>> >>> >> to
> >>> >>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS
> >>> >>> >> will
> >>> >>> >> step in
> >>> >>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Stuart.
> >>> >>> >> --------
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> "NickT" wrote:
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
> >>> >>> >> > external
> >>> >>> >> > disk.
> >>> >>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago.
> >>> >>> >> > Have
> >>> >>> >> > now
> >>> >>> >> > done
> >>> >>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same
> >>> >>> >> > backup
> >>> >>> >> > set. The
> >>> >>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the
> >>> >>> >> > number
> >>> >>> >> > of
> >>> >>> >> > files I
> >>> >>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see
> >>> >>> >> > files
> >>> >>> >> > being
> >>> >>> >> > backed
> >>> >>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full
> >>> >>> >> > backup.
> >>> >>> >> > What can
> >>> >>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program
> >>> >>> >> > look
> >>> >>> >> > at
> >>> >>> >> > in
> >>> >>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
> >>> >>> >> > archived'
> >>> >>> >> > then I
> >>> >>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >

On Vista, I ran All Programs-Accessories-System Tools-Backup Status and
Configuration. I selected Change Backup Settings-H drive
(DVD)-Next-Next-Create a New, Full Backup Now in addition to saving settings.
I took 2 DVDs.

My computer was reinitialized back to factory defaults and now I can not
restore from the DVDs. I can see .zip and GlobalCatalog.wbcat files.

When I try Advance Restore:
1) Files from the lastest backup made on this computer shows no catalogs.
2) Files from than older backup made on this computer shows no a newer
catalog that I made after the reset.
3) Files from a backup made on a different computer shows me only the D:
drive and neither of the two DVD writers.

How do I restore?

Gale
---------------------------------------------------------

"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:

> We had another customer with a similar report of large incremental backups,
> so he's sending us the catalog for review. We suspect his media files are
> changing due to a sync process. Anyway, it will be interesting to figure
> this out.
>
> I'm not that familiar with Easy Transfer's inner workings, but I do know it
> worked fantastically for me when I migrated my old XP laptop's data to a new
> Vista laptop. Double-check that it will work Vista-to-Vista (I'm not sure).
> Assuming it works, I would probably use a combination of both--make a backup
> for safekeeping and then use the transfer wizard.
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>
>
> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> news:06618521-79C8-436A-B599-...
> > Jill,
> >
> > Sorry for the long silence but for some reason I didn't get an E-mail
> > saying that you had responded. I guess if you do two responses one after
> > the
> > other I don't get notice of second one. Anyway I will eventually send you
> > files requested although I think I know what it is now. I'm having
> > problems
> > with Windows Media Player and Windows Photo Gallery. The Media Player
> > library
> > keeps corrupting and I have to rebuild it. I suspect now that as the
> > library
> > is rebuilt my multi-media file headers are updated somehow and that causes
> > the large incrementals to occur. What do you think?
> >
> > On another topic. What is the difference between Backup and Restore and
> > Windows Easy Transfer? I have to re-install Vista and I need to backup all
> > my
> > stuff beforehand and then restore once re-install is completed. What do
> > you
> > recommend and why?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
> >
> >> OK, here are the steps to getting the catalog files.
> >>
> >> 1. Start the command prompt as an administrator.
> >> 2. Type the following text:
> >>
> >> cd /d "c:\System Volume Information\Windows Backup"
> >>
> >> 3. Type the following text:
> >>
> >> CD catalogs
> >>
> >> 4. Now type "dir" and press Enter. You should see two catalog files
> >> listed.
> >>
> >> 5. Type the following:
> >>
> >> copy *.* c:\
> >>
> >> 6. Zip up those two files and email them to me (remove "online" from my
> >> address).
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> --
> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> rights.
> >>
> >> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> >> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
> >> news:...
> >> > I'm waiting for instructions on how to get your catalog files. They are
> >> > stored under System Volume Information, which is pretty locked down.
> >> > Supposedly there is a way to grab those files without changing
> >> > permissions, but the instructions I was given aren't working. I'll post
> >> > them here when I have them.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> > rights.
> >> >
> >> > Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
> >> > our
> >> > team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "NickT" <> wrote in message
> >> > news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
> >> >> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I do
> >> >> think it
> >> >> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look at
> >> >> and
> >> >> how
> >> >> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to
> >> >> what
> >> >> might
> >> >> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I really
> >> >> think
> >> >> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of
> >> >> photos,
> >> >> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me and
> >> >> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to be
> >> >> treated
> >> >> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should
> >> >> occur
> >> >> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> A couple answers for the thread:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does.
> >> >>> That
> >> >>> is,
> >> >>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because
> >> >>> some
> >> >>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
> >> >>> something
> >> >>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
> >> >>> something
> >> >>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties
> >> >>> may
> >> >>> lead
> >> >>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent
> >> >>> directory
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving the
> >> >>> files
> >> >>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them again.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand file
> >> >>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at creation
> >> >>> date,
> >> >>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not visible
> >> >>> via
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> cmd, only programmatically).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup
> >> >>> apps
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> didn't work well in its day.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can take
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> look
> >> >>> and tell you what's happening.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> >>> rights.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
> >> >>> our
> >> >>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
> >> >>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
> >> >>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite fathom
> >> >>> >out
> >> >>> >how
> >> >>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an
> >> >>> > Incremental
> >> >>> > and
> >> >>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the backup
> >> >>> > set.
> >> >>> > In
> >> >>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential
> >> >>> > backup
> >> >>> > in
> >> >>> > Vista Backup utility?
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size of
> >> >>> > backup
> >> >>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size .
> >> >>> > This
> >> >>> > last
> >> >>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo
> >> >>> > Gallery
> >> >>> > make
> >> >>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
> >> >>> > videos.
> >> >>> > Let's see what MS say.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This type
> >> >>> >> of
> >> >>> >> backup,
> >> >>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and
> >> >>> >> doesn't
> >> >>> >> seem
> >> >>> >> to
> >> >>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps MS
> >> >>> >> will
> >> >>> >> step in
> >> >>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Stuart.
> >> >>> >> --------
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> "NickT" wrote:
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
> >> >>> >> > external
> >> >>> >> > disk.
> >> >>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks ago.
> >> >>> >> > Have
> >> >>> >> > now
> >> >>> >> > done
> >> >>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same
> >> >>> >> > backup
> >> >>> >> > set. The
> >> >>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the
> >> >>> >> > number
> >> >>> >> > of
> >> >>> >> > files I
> >> >>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see files
> >> >>> >> > being
> >> >>> >> > backed
> >> >>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full
> >> >>> >> > backup.
> >> >>> >> > What can
> >> >>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup program
> >> >>> >> > look
> >> >>> >> > at
> >> >>> >> > in
> >> >>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
> >> >>> >> > archived'
> >> >>> >> > then I
> >> >>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
>

Did you try inserting the *last* DVD from the backup set?

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
"galeso" <> wrote in message
news:44A4CECB-BEB7-4075-9428-...
> On Vista, I ran All Programs-Accessories-System Tools-Backup Status and
> Configuration. I selected Change Backup Settings-H drive
> (DVD)-Next-Next-Create a New, Full Backup Now in addition to saving
> settings.
> I took 2 DVDs.
>
> My computer was reinitialized back to factory defaults and now I can not
> restore from the DVDs. I can see .zip and GlobalCatalog.wbcat files.
>
> When I try Advance Restore:
> 1) Files from the lastest backup made on this computer shows no catalogs.
> 2) Files from than older backup made on this computer shows no a newer
> catalog that I made after the reset.
> 3) Files from a backup made on a different computer shows me only the D:
> drive and neither of the two DVD writers.
>
> How do I restore?
>
> Gale
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>
>> We had another customer with a similar report of large incremental
>> backups,
>> so he's sending us the catalog for review. We suspect his media files are
>> changing due to a sync process. Anyway, it will be interesting to figure
>> this out.
>>
>> I'm not that familiar with Easy Transfer's inner workings, but I do know
>> it
>> worked fantastically for me when I migrated my old XP laptop's data to a
>> new
>> Vista laptop. Double-check that it will work Vista-to-Vista (I'm not
>> sure).
>> Assuming it works, I would probably use a combination of both--make a
>> backup
>> for safekeeping and then use the transfer wizard.
>>
>> --
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>>
>>
>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
>> news:06618521-79C8-436A-B599-...
>> > Jill,
>> >
>> > Sorry for the long silence but for some reason I didn't get an E-mail
>> > saying that you had responded. I guess if you do two responses one
>> > after
>> > the
>> > other I don't get notice of second one. Anyway I will eventually send
>> > you
>> > files requested although I think I know what it is now. I'm having
>> > problems
>> > with Windows Media Player and Windows Photo Gallery. The Media Player
>> > library
>> > keeps corrupting and I have to rebuild it. I suspect now that as the
>> > library
>> > is rebuilt my multi-media file headers are updated somehow and that
>> > causes
>> > the large incrementals to occur. What do you think?
>> >
>> > On another topic. What is the difference between Backup and Restore and
>> > Windows Easy Transfer? I have to re-install Vista and I need to backup
>> > all
>> > my
>> > stuff beforehand and then restore once re-install is completed. What do
>> > you
>> > recommend and why?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> OK, here are the steps to getting the catalog files.
>> >>
>> >> 1. Start the command prompt as an administrator.
>> >> 2. Type the following text:
>> >>
>> >> cd /d "c:\System Volume Information\Windows Backup"
>> >>
>> >> 3. Type the following text:
>> >>
>> >> CD catalogs
>> >>
>> >> 4. Now type "dir" and press Enter. You should see two catalog files
>> >> listed.
>> >>
>> >> 5. Type the following:
>> >>
>> >> copy *.* c:\
>> >>
>> >> 6. Zip up those two files and email them to me (remove "online" from
>> >> my
>> >> address).
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> >> rights.
>> >>
>> >> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit
>> >> our
>> >> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
>> >> news:...
>> >> > I'm waiting for instructions on how to get your catalog files. They
>> >> > are
>> >> > stored under System Volume Information, which is pretty locked down.
>> >> > Supposedly there is a way to grab those files without changing
>> >> > permissions, but the instructions I was given aren't working. I'll
>> >> > post
>> >> > them here when I have them.
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> >> > rights.
>> >> >
>> >> > Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies?
>> >> > Visit
>> >> > our
>> >> > team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "NickT" <> wrote in message
>> >> > news:C1641118-FBDA-4999-82E1-...
>> >> >> Jill, Thanks for your concern and offer to look into my case as I
>> >> >> do
>> >> >> think it
>> >> >> strange. If you can tell me what catalogs, files you need to look
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> how
>> >> >> i should get them to you I'll do as you ask. You suspiscions as to
>> >> >> what
>> >> >> might
>> >> >> be the reason may well prove to be right but if they are then I
>> >> >> really
>> >> >> think
>> >> >> some thought needs to be given to how one should make backups of
>> >> >> photos,
>> >> >> music and video files in future release as it is these that for me
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> probably others that occupy the most disk space and might need to
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> treated
>> >> >> differently. Maybe more options as to when backups of these should
>> >> >> occur
>> >> >> (e.g. Ignore changed ID3 tags or antivirus mods.....).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks
>> >> >> "Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> A couple answers for the thread:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Backup *does* use VSS, but not in the way Complete PC Backup does.
>> >> >>> That
>> >> >>> is,
>> >> >>> with File Backup, the changes aren't stored as shadow copies.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Like some have speculated, those files are being backed up because
>> >> >>> some
>> >> >>> program or process is changing them. It can be antivirus putting
>> >> >>> something
>> >> >>> in alternate streams, Media Player updating metadata (ID3 tags) or
>> >> >>> something
>> >> >>> like this. Even right-clicking in Explorer and going to properties
>> >> >>> may
>> >> >>> lead
>> >> >>> to adding alternate stream. Changing permissions on the parent
>> >> >>> directory
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> compressing the folder can also lead to the same effect. Moving
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> files
>> >> >>> into a different directory will also force Backup to pick them
>> >> >>> again.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Backup does not look in any headers, nor does Backup understand
>> >> >>> file
>> >> >>> formats. To determine if a file is changed, Backup looks at
>> >> >>> creation
>> >> >>> date,
>> >> >>> modification date, and last written to date (this one is not
>> >> >>> visible
>> >> >>> via
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> cmd, only programmatically).
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> From what I'm told, the archive bit is not used by serious backup
>> >> >>> apps
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> didn't work well in its day.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> If you are willing to share your backup catalogs with us, we can
>> >> >>> take
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> look
>> >> >>> and tell you what's happening.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
>> >> >>> no
>> >> >>> rights.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies?
>> >> >>> Visit
>> >> >>> our
>> >> >>> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "NickT" <> wrote in message
>> >> >>> news:4498B7C0-FD37-4EFE-93C9-...
>> >> >>> >I agree. I would really like MS to tell us this. Can't quite
>> >> >>> >fathom
>> >> >>> >out
>> >> >>> >how
>> >> >>> > they can say this is normal behaivior. An Incremental is an
>> >> >>> > Incremental
>> >> >>> > and
>> >> >>> > only files that have been added/changed should go into the
>> >> >>> > backup
>> >> >>> > set.
>> >> >>> > In
>> >> >>> > response to AJR comment I don't see an option for differential
>> >> >>> > backup
>> >> >>> > in
>> >> >>> > Vista Backup utility?
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > I did my last backup yesterday. Just to give you an idea of size
>> >> >>> > of
>> >> >>> > backup
>> >> >>> > files I'm talknig about. Original full backup was 90GB in size .
>> >> >>> > This
>> >> >>> > last
>> >> >>> > incremental since last week was 63GB!!
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > I'm now suspecting that Windows Media Library, MCE and/or Photo
>> >> >>> > Gallery
>> >> >>> > make
>> >> >>> > updates to the file headers when indexing and sorting photos and
>> >> >>> > videos.
>> >> >>> > Let's see what MS say.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > "Stuart [MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >> Unfortunately, according to MS, this is normal behavior. This
>> >> >>> >> type
>> >> >>> >> of
>> >> >>> >> backup,
>> >> >>> >> unlike the Complete PC Backup doesn't use VSS technology and
>> >> >>> >> doesn't
>> >> >>> >> seem
>> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >>> >> use the Archive bit as evidence of file modification. Perhaps
>> >> >>> >> MS
>> >> >>> >> will
>> >> >>> >> step in
>> >> >>> >> here and provide a more detailed explanation?
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> Stuart.
>> >> >>> >> --------
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> "NickT" wrote:
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> > Am using Vista Backup utility to backup my files to USB based
>> >> >>> >> > external
>> >> >>> >> > disk.
>> >> >>> >> > Have one backup set with initial full backup done 2 weeks
>> >> >>> >> > ago.
>> >> >>> >> > Have
>> >> >>> >> > now
>> >> >>> >> > done
>> >> >>> >> > 2 subsequent incremental backups that have been saved in same
>> >> >>> >> > backup
>> >> >>> >> > set. The
>> >> >>> >> > size of the incremental backups are extremely large yet the
>> >> >>> >> > number
>> >> >>> >> > of
>> >> >>> >> > files I
>> >> >>> >> > have changed and added between backups has been few. I see
>> >> >>> >> > files
>> >> >>> >> > being
>> >> >>> >> > backed
>> >> >>> >> > up again that have not changed in any way since initial full
>> >> >>> >> > backup.
>> >> >>> >> > What can
>> >> >>> >> > be going on? What field in file header does the backup
>> >> >>> >> > program
>> >> >>> >> > look
>> >> >>> >> > at
>> >> >>> >> > in
>> >> >>> >> > order to decide if file needs to be backed up. If it's 'date
>> >> >>> >> > archived'
>> >> >>> >> > then I
>> >> >>> >> > can see that this field is not populated.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>