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Vista Kicking my Buttocks...Weird problems

 
 
connieharper
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      10-15-2008

I do technical support for my clients all over the country. This week
encountered two weird problems with two different clients in differen
states that just upgraded to Vista 32

Client 1 in NC. I was doing some troubleshooting and was trying t
break the shortcut on the desktop that opens our application.
browsed to the folder referenced in the shortcut and renamed th
database file that was referred to by the shortcut. Then I clicked o
the shortcut, expecting it to break, but it still opened the file eve
though I renamed it! Then I decided to rename the whole folder. Tha
would break the shortcut for sure... Wrong... The shortcut stil
worked. How can a shortcut open a file that is no longer the same nam
nor in the location referenced in the shortcut target? I had my colleag
check and he confirmed that sure enough the shortcut target location n
longer existed but yet when double clicked still opened the file

Second client in Texas: Similar problem. Shortcut on desktop tha
opens our application. It worked fine but it was opening an old versio
of our software. So, I copied our new database into the folde
referenced in the shortcut overwriting the existing database. I clic
on the existing shortcut on the desktop and I was shocked to see i
opened the old database even though I overwrote it with the new one!
checked and doublecheck. The old database was gone, deleted! I browse
to the folder, checked the properties on the database and sure enoug
the new one was physically there! How on earth can a shortcut open
file that has been overwritten with a new one and no longer exists o
the c:\drive

I felt like I was in a twilight zone episode. It aint me and it's tw
different clients. It's very disturbing. What on earth is the proble
with Vista?

FYI: These folders were created in this location: c:\progra
files\school

--
connieharper
 
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Mr. Arnold
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      10-15-2008
connieharper wrote:
> I do technical support for my clients all over the country. This week I
> encountered two weird problems with two different clients in different
> states that just upgraded to Vista 32.
>
> Client 1 in NC. I was doing some troubleshooting and was trying to
> break the shortcut on the desktop that opens our application. I
> browsed to the folder referenced in the shortcut and renamed the
> database file that was referred to by the shortcut. Then I clicked on
> the shortcut, expecting it to break, but it still opened the file even
> though I renamed it! Then I decided to rename the whole folder. That
> would break the shortcut for sure... Wrong... The shortcut still
> worked. How can a shortcut open a file that is no longer the same name
> nor in the location referenced in the shortcut target? I had my colleage
> check and he confirmed that sure enough the shortcut target location no
> longer existed but yet when double clicked still opened the file!


It could be due to Virtualization on Vista.

<http://juice.altiris.com/article/2665/folder-virtualization-concepts-windows-vista>

>
> Second client in Texas: Similar problem. Shortcut on desktop that
> opens our application. It worked fine but it was opening an old version
> of our software. So, I copied our new database into the folder
> referenced in the shortcut overwriting the existing database. I click
> on the existing shortcut on the desktop and I was shocked to see it
> opened the old database even though I overwrote it with the new one! I
> checked and doublecheck. The old database was gone, deleted! I browsed
> to the folder, checked the properties on the database and sure enough
> the new one was physically there! How on earth can a shortcut open a
> file that has been overwritten with a new one and no longer exists on
> the c:\drive?


see above.

>
> I felt like I was in a twilight zone episode. It aint me and it's two
> different clients. It's very disturbing. What on earth is the problem
> with Vista?
>


On Vista with C:\Program Files and C:\Windows it's a different ball game
than previous versions of the NT based O/S, with a lot more protection
being enforced.

> FYI: These folders were created in this location: c:\program
> files\schools


Well, software developers are finding out that one should not be keeping
data files in C:\Program Files as Vista might step-in with some kind of
a protection mode. Yes, keep the programs in Programs Files, but move
data files, like databases to another location.

Here is something else you might be interested in too.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...30(VS.85).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382503.aspx


 
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news.microsoft.com
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      10-15-2008
"connieharper" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> I felt like I was in a twilight zone episode. It aint me and it's two
> different clients. It's very disturbing. What on earth is the problem
> with Vista?



I wish I could help but since buying a HP PC with Vista, I too feel like I'm
in an episode of the Twilight Zone. I'm spending more time dealing with
problems with this PC than doing meaningful work. I had nothing that can
compare to these problems moving up from W95 to W98SE, then to W/XP.

 
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Tom Allen
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      10-15-2008

"connieharper" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> I do technical support for my clients all over the country. This week
> I
> encountered two weird problems with two different clients in different
> states that just upgraded to Vista 32.
>
> Client 1 in NC. I was doing some troubleshooting and was trying to
> break the shortcut on the desktop that opens our application. I
> browsed to the folder referenced in the shortcut and renamed the
> database file that was referred to by the shortcut. Then I clicked on
> the shortcut, expecting it to break, but it still opened the file even
> though I renamed it! Then I decided to rename the whole folder. That
> would break the shortcut for sure... Wrong... The shortcut still
> worked. How can a shortcut open a file that is no longer the same
> name
> nor in the location referenced in the shortcut target? I had my
> colleage
> check and he confirmed that sure enough the shortcut target location
> no
> longer existed but yet when double clicked still opened the file!
>
> Second client in Texas: Similar problem. Shortcut on desktop that
> opens our application. It worked fine but it was opening an old
> version
> of our software. So, I copied our new database into the folder
> referenced in the shortcut overwriting the existing database. I
> click
> on the existing shortcut on the desktop and I was shocked to see it
> opened the old database even though I overwrote it with the new one!
> I
> checked and doublecheck. The old database was gone, deleted! I
> browsed
> to the folder, checked the properties on the database and sure enough
> the new one was physically there! How on earth can a shortcut open a
> file that has been overwritten with a new one and no longer exists on
> the c:\drive?
>
> I felt like I was in a twilight zone episode. It aint me and it's two
> different clients. It's very disturbing. What on earth is the problem
> with Vista?
>
> FYI: These folders were created in this location: c:\program
> files\schools
>


You will find the same effect in the Recent Documents list (Vista & XP)
whereby some re-named and moved items can still be opened by the old
entry. At a guess ( I'm a home user, no clients :-> ) the stored
reference is somehow by direct disc address rather than directory entry,
this finds the old data (now free disk space but still exists) and thus
a new shortcut is required.

Tom


 
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connieharper
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      10-15-2008

For the love of God! So, Vista gets to make a "silent" decision abou
what version of my file it decides to open and is allowed to ignore m
when I rename or move files to another location all because of it'
desire to enhance security? I feel sick! What about enhancing securit
by sending computer hackers and those who create viruses to priso
instead.? I am mad and I am not going to take it anymore

I have 300 customers many of which are moving to Vista. I think I a
going to redesign my app to run on the web. What a sad state ou
technology is in...

Thank you for explaining the problem though. At least I know what'
going on now. It doesn't make me any happier though. I thought I wa
losing my mind. So basically, I need to throw out everything I kno
about computers and start all over again. Nice. Thanks Microsoft

P.S. How do I disable Vista's "virtualization process" or remove thi
virtual store directory? I don't want vista to "silently redirect m
application" to anywhere

--
connieharper
 
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Mr. Arnold
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      10-15-2008

"connieharper" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> For the love of God! So, Vista gets to make a "silent" decision about
> what version of my file it decides to open and is allowed to ignore me
> when I rename or move files to another location all because of it's
> desire to enhance security? I feel sick! What about enhancing security
> by sending computer hackers and those who create viruses to prison
> instead.? I am mad and I am not going to take it anymore!


You had better figure out what is going on.

<http://www.securitypronews.com/news/securitynews/spn-45-20060601ASLRJoinsVistasBagOfTricks.html>
<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc162458.aspx>

Address Space Load Randomization

Despite measures like Data Execution Prevention and enhanced compiler
error checking, malware authors continue to find buffer overflow
vulnerabilities that allow them to infect network-facing processes like
Internet Explorer®, Windows services, and third-party applications to
gain a foothold on a system. Once they have managed to infect a process,
however, they must use Windows APIs to accomplish their ultimate goal of
reading user data or establishing a permanent presence by modifying user
or system configuration settings.

Connecting an application with API entry points exported by DLLs is
something usually handled by the operating system loader, but these
types of malware infection don't get the benefit of the loader's
services. This hasn't posed a problem for malware on previous versions
of Windows because for any given Windows release, system executable
images and DLLs always load at the same location, allowing malware to
assume that APIs reside at fixed addresses.

The Windows Vista Address Space Load Randomization (ASLR) feature makes
it impossible for malware to know where APIs are located by loading
system DLLs and executables at a different location every time the
system boots. Early in the boot process, the Memory Manager picks a
random DLL image-load bias from one of 256 64KB-aligned addresses in the
16MB region at the top of the user-mode address space. As DLLs that have
the new dynamic-relocation flag in their image header load into a
process, the Memory Manager packs them into memory starting at the
image-load bias address and working its way down.

>
> I have 300 customers many of which are moving to Vista. I think I am
> going to redesign my app to run on the web. What a sad state our
> technology is in....


You didn't do your home work, and you didn't do any testing it seems on the
Vista platform to ensure that yiur solution worked.

http://www.developer.com/net/net/article.php/3695651

>
> Thank you for explaining the problem though. At least I know what's
> going on now. It doesn't make me any happier though. I thought I was
> losing my mind. So basically, I need to throw out everything I know
> about computers and start all over again. Nice. Thanks Microsoft.


I wouldn't say toss out everything. But you do need to re-tool, and you
should start looking at things with a different mindset, as a software
developer.

>
> P.S. How do I disable Vista's "virtualization process" or remove this
> virtual store directory? I don't want vista to "silently redirect my
> application" to anywhere.


You can't possibly think that you will be the only software solutions
developer developing solutions to run on the Vista platform do you? What
about other solutions running on the platform, used by your clients?

As a software developer, you need to understand what is happening to program
viable solutions for Vista.

<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc709691.aspx>
<http://news.softpedia.com/news/Admin-Approval-Mode-in-Windows-Vista-45312.shtml>
<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc138019.aspx>
<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc160882.aspx>
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382503.aspx>

You might be real interested in these links too, as a software developer.

<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382503.aspx>
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382530(VS.85).aspx>
<http://www.computerperformance.co.uk/vista/vista_administrator_activate.htm#Summary_of_Vista_ Administrator_-_Super_User_(Hidden_Account)>
<http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/enable-the-hidden-administrator-account-on-windows-vista/>


I am not MS. :-P



 
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connieharper
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      10-15-2008

Thanks for the info. We did test the app on Vista and it appeared t
run fine. We obivously did not test vigorously enough. It looked good

That's what I am doing here. Figuring out what is going on.
appreciate you helping me with that.

Thanks

--
connieharper
 
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Retroman
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      10-15-2008
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:35:10 -0500, connieharper <> wrote:

>For the love of God! So, Vista gets to make a "silent" decision about
>what version of my file it decides to open and is allowed to ignore me
>when I rename or move files to another location all because of it's
>desire to enhance security? I feel sick! What about enhancing security
>by sending computer hackers and those who create viruses to prison
>instead.? I am mad and I am not going to take it anymore!


Hi Connie,

Actually, this behavior is *not* new with Vista. Desktop shortcuts have had a "self
healing" feature going back to Windows 98, at least. If the initial path is invalid,
Windows searches for the file name and opens the first one by that name that it
finds. The difference is that under Win 98, I think I recall a popup dialog that
asked the user to confirm the new location.

Regards,

Doug M. in NJ
 
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