Vista - mobile device sync issue

Thanks so much for the tips, jss. I'll look into XTND.

Another bit of a bandaid solution for you might be a little Outlook plugin
called ODIR. Outlook Duplicate Items Remover. It doesn't always get all
duplicates but sometimes it's helped in the process. One place to find it is

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/fil...1619:b20089855

NB: Since I have quite a number of Notes, Tasks, Contacts, etc. I don't
really have a way of confirming that ODIR works perfectly, but searching the
net shows that people generally seem to find it reliable.

Another odd thing that ODIR can't help with is that for some reason,
Carriage Returns/Line Feeds are added to the end of my Notes. Sometimes lots
of them by accumulation. A couple of Notes have had more CR/LF that actual
text :-) This seems to change randomly and often. Subsequently, ODIR is
unable to find some duplicates since one of the notes will have 8 Carriage
Returns instead of 6.

Best of luck and thanks again.

"jss" wrote:

> I have a laptop and desktop and a Treo with WM6.1. I'd like to sync
> contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, and files in a given location. I found
> that AS will not sync two pc's. Some folks suggest not syncing notes, and if
> that doesn't help enough then don't sync tasks, and so on.
>
> Before I got the Treo, I was very happy with KeySuite from Chapura running
> on a Palm Zire 31. It has a bonus of carrying over custom categories and
> label colors. I've been using it to do Outlook sync between the desk and
> laptops; using AS to get the phone updated from the laptop and to also sync
> the file folder. It kinda of works but since I've using the phone, I get
> tons of duplicates of some appointments and notes.
>
> I just looked at XTND Connect from Sybase, sold on handango. There is a home
> and office version for $90 that might be useful. It still uses Active sync
> for the connection. The Sybase website doesn't show this particular version
> and the datasheet for the other one is very skimpy. You can get a trial from
> Handango. If I have the energy after dealing with AS I might try it.
>
> I may just try to get my Zire scheme working right again. Some of the AS
> problems are due to weaknesses in the WM applications, like no categories
> for tasks or colors for appointment labels. Chapura wrote their own app for
> the Palm that is more faithful to Outlook than the MS written application.

Sort of hesitate to jump in here, as I have always felt and said, AS/WMDC is
the single weakest link in the Windows Mobile (or Pocket PC) landscape.
Can't deny it is fraught with horror stories. The mere existence of a
newsgroup dedicated just to AS is indicative, and the volume of
participation is scary. I have personally had issues with AS, but not really
horrible ones, though they are frustrating when they occur. Typically
rebooting the PC, resetting the device, and swinging a dead cat during a
full moon resolves the problem. I haven't had real noticeable data issues
beyond the duplicates that are bound to crop up when syncing multiple
devices to multiple PCs. The sync DB that keeps track of what was done, to
what, when, is a bit fragile IMHO, and forgets that two things are the same.
In my experience that has typically resulted in both being kept on both
sides; a duplicate. Sometimes it seems to be an issue between revisions
where something is supported on one device and not the other and that causes
a difference assessment. In any case, it is not a good experience.

Sadly the reality, as I believe it, is that keeping desktops in sync was
never a goal of MS with AS. That is a job for Exchange. It seems clear that
the synchronization of multiple PCs was never high on the scenario list, as
a very typical scenario has never been addressed. Who doesn't have a PC at
work, one at home, and a laptop associated with one or the other, i.e. 3 PCs
that need synchronization. Ignoring that scenario indicates to me that
synchronization of PIM across PCs was never a real goal in the first place.
Doing two was a concession to partnering with more than just home or work,
but syncing home and work wasn't the underlying reason. In fact the
byproduct mixing of home and work info, irreversibly, was an unintentional
(I hope) deterrent to dual partnerships for many people.

On the point of Palm doing it well, remember that Palm never had a real file
system or any real documents. The whole thing was basically a database, and
the entries of any sort were DB entries. Note .pdb is Palm Data Base. I only
mention this because synchronizing and merging databases is a well
understood art. If your data is in fields in records, you can extend the
schema to cover age, dates, indexes, etc. When you start with a little copy
of the Windows file system, it presents a bit more of a challenge to keep
things under control. Not intended to minimize the issue, just an
acknowledgement that syncing Windows Mobile is a different problem than
syncing Palm, just because of the basic OS concept.

Beyond that, don't know what to say, other than you do seem to have more
severe issues than many, and so I would be looking for what is unique about
your setup. Installed apps, oddball configurations, multiple USB hubs, maybe
substandard USB, something. By odd configuration I mean things that are
different than usual. I for instance do run an Exchange server at home, and
I connect Outlook on my PCs to it. But, I sync my WM device to Outlook on a
PC, not to the server. I find that causes issues when I try to create a
partnership with a second PC's Outlook also connected to Exchange. Why, I
don't know, but it is a scenario that MS wouldn't 'officially' expect. Why
wouldn't I just sync the device with Exchange? Why would I try to sync with
two PCs that really should have the same info, that should be the same as
the device (syncing with Exchange)?

So, best of luck. Short of starting everything from scratch, hard reset the
device, and set up the partnership before doing anything else, and let it
percolate that way for a week or so to see if it stays stable (assuming it
is), I don't know what to suggest that doesn't involve some sort of ritual
sacrifice.

"John Ciccone" <> wrote in message
news:BCF2F673-3B85-4C0E-AB60-...
> Thanks so much for the tips, jss. I'll look into XTND.
>
> Another bit of a bandaid solution for you might be a little Outlook plugin
> called ODIR. Outlook Duplicate Items Remover. It doesn't always get all
> duplicates but sometimes it's helped in the process. One place to find it
> is
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/fil...1619:b20089855
>
> NB: Since I have quite a number of Notes, Tasks, Contacts, etc. I don't
> really have a way of confirming that ODIR works perfectly, but searching
> the
> net shows that people generally seem to find it reliable.
>
> Another odd thing that ODIR can't help with is that for some reason,
> Carriage Returns/Line Feeds are added to the end of my Notes. Sometimes
> lots
> of them by accumulation. A couple of Notes have had more CR/LF that actual
> text :-) This seems to change randomly and often. Subsequently, ODIR is
> unable to find some duplicates since one of the notes will have 8 Carriage
> Returns instead of 6.
>
> Best of luck and thanks again.
>
> "jss" wrote:
>
>> I have a laptop and desktop and a Treo with WM6.1. I'd like to sync
>> contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, and files in a given location. I found
>> that AS will not sync two pc's. Some folks suggest not syncing notes, and
>> if
>> that doesn't help enough then don't sync tasks, and so on.
>>
>> Before I got the Treo, I was very happy with KeySuite from Chapura
>> running
>> on a Palm Zire 31. It has a bonus of carrying over custom categories and
>> label colors. I've been using it to do Outlook sync between the desk and
>> laptops; using AS to get the phone updated from the laptop and to also
>> sync
>> the file folder. It kinda of works but since I've using the phone, I get
>> tons of duplicates of some appointments and notes.
>>
>> I just looked at XTND Connect from Sybase, sold on handango. There is a
>> home
>> and office version for $90 that might be useful. It still uses Active
>> sync
>> for the connection. The Sybase website doesn't show this particular
>> version
>> and the datasheet for the other one is very skimpy. You can get a trial
>> from
>> Handango. If I have the energy after dealing with AS I might try it.
>>
>> I may just try to get my Zire scheme working right again. Some of the AS
>> problems are due to weaknesses in the WM applications, like no categories
>> for tasks or colors for appointment labels. Chapura wrote their own app
>> for
>> the Palm that is more faithful to Outlook than the MS written
>> application.
>

> Another bit of a bandaid solution for you might be a little Outlook plugin
> called ODIR. Outlook Duplicate Items Remover. It doesn't always get all
> duplicates but sometimes it's helped in the process. One place to find it
> is
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/fil...1619:b20089855
>
This worked pretty well for me also. Notes is a problem; I have some like
Books, Books1, Books2 and they may not be exactly the same. Some, when I
open in outlook loose the number (Books2 becomes Books).

This program refers to OsaSync for Outlook. This looks interesting, but is
$60. After all, ActiveSync claims to work with two PCs and the phone. .

I actually kept two PCs and twp PPCs sync'd pretty consistently back in the
PPC2003SE and AS3.8 days. The situation though was home PC using Outlook
against Exchange, and Outlook loaded at work so that when I sync'd there I
had contacts and calendar and stuff available. We actually used Lotus at
work so there wasn't any real home work cross pollination unless I
specifically put some work stuff in Outlook at work. That was on purpose.
Sad to say, a lot of sync stuff used to work better. First multi PC sync
problems I had that never got resolved was when I got a Wizard (iMate K-Jam)
with WM 5. Been just living without that scenario ever since. Helps that I
changed jobs into an environment that I couldn't get my WM device near my
work PC if I wanted to.

"Todd Allcock" <> wrote in message
news:...
> I'll echo your thoughts, Sven. I've never really understood the point of
> syncing two PCs with one mobile device since the device can't keep the
> data segregated anyway. If I were allowed to sync "work" and "home" data
> separately so they didn't "cross-polinate" to the other PCs, a dual-sync
> scenario would make a lot more sense.
>

Very much appreciate your time, Sven. And your candor.

The aptly-described-by-Todd clusterf*** problem continues (i.e. I can't come
back into the office without deleting and recreating the partnership... which
takes a very long time to get through the first sync.)

I don't have exotic or unusual software or hardware that I'm incapable of
maintaining.

>> Sadly the reality, as I believe it, is that keeping desktops in sync was
never a goal of MS with AS.<<

This is indeed the sad part because the problem in fact was my decision to
move to WM/AS. Clearly I was naive to simply think that a company wouldn't
release something if it didn't do what they represented that it would do. And
when it gets to the point where your life/work is adversely affected, one can
get viciously resentful about it. When this much time goes by, and things
seem to actually get worse, you're left with the impression of a cavelier
"Yaa... so what" attitude. That's not a good feeling.

I appreciate your pointing out the difference between this and the Palm OS.
I could probably be satisfied with either system if it worked well enough to
get through the day.

Oh well. Onward. Too bad ritual sacrifices can get you arrested.
:-)

"Sven" wrote:

> Sort of hesitate to jump in here, as I have always felt and said, AS/WMDC is
> the single weakest link in the Windows Mobile (or Pocket PC) landscape.
> Can't deny it is fraught with horror stories. The mere existence of a
> newsgroup dedicated just to AS is indicative, and the volume of
> participation is scary. I have personally had issues with AS, but not really
> horrible ones, though they are frustrating when they occur. Typically
> rebooting the PC, resetting the device, and swinging a dead cat during a
> full moon resolves the problem. I haven't had real noticeable data issues
> beyond the duplicates that are bound to crop up when syncing multiple
> devices to multiple PCs. The sync DB that keeps track of what was done, to
> what, when, is a bit fragile IMHO, and forgets that two things are the same.
> In my experience that has typically resulted in both being kept on both
> sides; a duplicate. Sometimes it seems to be an issue between revisions
> where something is supported on one device and not the other and that causes
> a difference assessment. In any case, it is not a good experience.
>
> Sadly the reality, as I believe it, is that keeping desktops in sync was
> never a goal of MS with AS. That is a job for Exchange. It seems clear that
> the synchronization of multiple PCs was never high on the scenario list, as
> a very typical scenario has never been addressed. Who doesn't have a PC at
> work, one at home, and a laptop associated with one or the other, i.e. 3 PCs
> that need synchronization. Ignoring that scenario indicates to me that
> synchronization of PIM across PCs was never a real goal in the first place.
> Doing two was a concession to partnering with more than just home or work,
> but syncing home and work wasn't the underlying reason. In fact the
> byproduct mixing of home and work info, irreversibly, was an unintentional
> (I hope) deterrent to dual partnerships for many people.
>
> On the point of Palm doing it well, remember that Palm never had a real file
> system or any real documents. The whole thing was basically a database, and
> the entries of any sort were DB entries. Note .pdb is Palm Data Base. I only
> mention this because synchronizing and merging databases is a well
> understood art. If your data is in fields in records, you can extend the
> schema to cover age, dates, indexes, etc. When you start with a little copy
> of the Windows file system, it presents a bit more of a challenge to keep
> things under control. Not intended to minimize the issue, just an
> acknowledgement that syncing Windows Mobile is a different problem than
> syncing Palm, just because of the basic OS concept.
>
> Beyond that, don't know what to say, other than you do seem to have more
> severe issues than many, and so I would be looking for what is unique about
> your setup. Installed apps, oddball configurations, multiple USB hubs, maybe
> substandard USB, something. By odd configuration I mean things that are
> different than usual. I for instance do run an Exchange server at home, and
> I connect Outlook on my PCs to it. But, I sync my WM device to Outlook on a
> PC, not to the server. I find that causes issues when I try to create a
> partnership with a second PC's Outlook also connected to Exchange. Why, I
> don't know, but it is a scenario that MS wouldn't 'officially' expect. Why
> wouldn't I just sync the device with Exchange? Why would I try to sync with
> two PCs that really should have the same info, that should be the same as
> the device (syncing with Exchange)?
>
> So, best of luck. Short of starting everything from scratch, hard reset the
> device, and set up the partnership before doing anything else, and let it
> percolate that way for a week or so to see if it stays stable (assuming it
> is), I don't know what to suggest that doesn't involve some sort of ritual
> sacrifice.
>
> "John Ciccone" <> wrote in message
> news:BCF2F673-3B85-4C0E-AB60-...
> > Thanks so much for the tips, jss. I'll look into XTND.
> >
> > Another bit of a bandaid solution for you might be a little Outlook plugin
> > called ODIR. Outlook Duplicate Items Remover. It doesn't always get all
> > duplicates but sometimes it's helped in the process. One place to find it
> > is
> >
> > http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/fil...1619:b20089855
> >
> > NB: Since I have quite a number of Notes, Tasks, Contacts, etc. I don't
> > really have a way of confirming that ODIR works perfectly, but searching
> > the
> > net shows that people generally seem to find it reliable.
> >
> > Another odd thing that ODIR can't help with is that for some reason,
> > Carriage Returns/Line Feeds are added to the end of my Notes. Sometimes
> > lots
> > of them by accumulation. A couple of Notes have had more CR/LF that actual
> > text :-) This seems to change randomly and often. Subsequently, ODIR is
> > unable to find some duplicates since one of the notes will have 8 Carriage
> > Returns instead of 6.
> >
> > Best of luck and thanks again.
> >
> > "jss" wrote:
> >
> >> I have a laptop and desktop and a Treo with WM6.1. I'd like to sync
> >> contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, and files in a given location. I found
> >> that AS will not sync two pc's. Some folks suggest not syncing notes, and
> >> if
> >> that doesn't help enough then don't sync tasks, and so on.
> >>
> >> Before I got the Treo, I was very happy with KeySuite from Chapura
> >> running
> >> on a Palm Zire 31. It has a bonus of carrying over custom categories and
> >> label colors. I've been using it to do Outlook sync between the desk and
> >> laptops; using AS to get the phone updated from the laptop and to also
> >> sync
> >> the file folder. It kinda of works but since I've using the phone, I get
> >> tons of duplicates of some appointments and notes.
> >>
> >> I just looked at XTND Connect from Sybase, sold on handango. There is a
> >> home
> >> and office version for $90 that might be useful. It still uses Active
> >> sync
> >> for the connection. The Sybase website doesn't show this particular
> >> version
> >> and the datasheet for the other one is very skimpy. You can get a trial
> >> from
> >> Handango. If I have the energy after dealing with AS I might try it.
> >>
> >> I may just try to get my Zire scheme working right again. Some of the AS
> >> problems are due to weaknesses in the WM applications, like no categories
> >> for tasks or colors for appointment labels. Chapura wrote their own app
> >> for
> >> the Palm that is more faithful to Outlook than the MS written
> >> application.
> >
>

"Todd Allcock" wrote:

> I'll echo your thoughts, Sven. I've never really understood the point of
> syncing two PCs with one mobile device since the device can't keep the data
> segregated anyway.

The point is to sync two PCs with one mobile device.

Perhaps I'm alone here, but I have a real problem with the concept of
releasing a product or service that doesn't work. It doesn't quite matter to
me whether it was intended to do so or not. That only makes it worse. I would
be very pleased if someone extended the courtesy of not allowing me to waste
my time and money.

There were always problems before 6.1 (the threads from many are out there)
but since purchasing this new mobile device a couple weeks ago, it's
constant, worse and unending. It doesn't seem to be specific to this device.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do about a patch that I can't get hold of.
And I'm sure someone's cracking their knuckles getting ready to type "Then go
back to Palm". Fact is, once somebody spends time and money in hardware,
software, training, etc. it's not easy to simply back out.

So the fault in fact lies with my trusting a product to do what it was
supposed to do. Live and learn, yes?

Thanks for your input.

>If I were allowed to sync "work" and "home" data
> separately so they didn't "cross-polinate" to the other PCs, a dual-sync
> scenario would make a lot more sense.
>
> I'm not suggesting that's an excuse for John's troubles, just agreeing that
> using a Pocket PC as a hardware "sync machine" to keep two PCs in sync is
> probably not Activesync's primary intended function (but still should work!)
>
> And not to pick on John, but he seems to be spending an inordinate amount of
> time banging his head against the wall trying to get this to work. As
> Kathleen Anderson popped in and posted, there seems to be a WM6.1 bug that
> prevents reliable syncing with two PCs. (There's a long discussion on this
> at the WindowsMobileTraining.com website.) While MS has apparently fixed
> the bug recently, the fix has only been released to device OEMs, for
> inclusion in future ROM releases and upgrades, so it's likely John is trying
> to perform an impossible task- sync two PCs with a device that has a bug
> preventing that scenario from happening reliably.
>
> Like you, while I've had my share of sync trouble over the years, I've never
> had a major clusterf*** problem like John is experiencing. My search for
> alternative sync tools (and eventually settling on Funambol/Scheduleworld)
> was more a response to the removal of sync-over-IP in WM5/AS 4.x. Syncing
> over WiFi was my usual sync method using Pocket PCs, and it's removal
> radically changed the way I interacted with mobile devices, so I was
> determined to get that feature back. The fact that Funambol has been more
> consistant than Activesync for me, and simplified keeping my laptops in sync
> with my desktop (as well as working on "dumbphones") were all just bonuses.
> (When my Tilt was lost back in December I temporarily reverted to my old
> Pocket PC and Nokia S60 phone for a few days until replacing it- downloading
> my Outlook contacts to the Nokia OTA via Funambol sync made it a little
> easier.)
>
> If I had to do it all over today, I'd probably just use Google's sync tool,
> since that would simplify life on the mobile device side (since it uses the
> pre-installed Activesync instead of a potentially flakey third-party sync
> client). If Google adds push-GMail to their sync tool as they've hinted to,
> I might reconsider and switch to Google instead.
>
>
> "Sven" <> wrote in message
> news:3CCD4443-02DA-48FE-8B89-...
> > Sort of hesitate to jump in here, as I have always felt and said, AS/WMDC
> > is the single weakest link in the Windows Mobile (or Pocket PC) landscape.
> > Can't deny it is fraught with horror stories. The mere existence of a
> > newsgroup dedicated just to AS is indicative, and the volume of
> > participation is scary. I have personally had issues with AS, but not
> > really horrible ones, though they are frustrating when they occur.
> > Typically rebooting the PC, resetting the device, and swinging a dead cat
> > during a full moon resolves the problem. I haven't had real noticeable
> > data issues beyond the duplicates that are bound to crop up when syncing
> > multiple devices to multiple PCs. The sync DB that keeps track of what was
> > done, to what, when, is a bit fragile IMHO, and forgets that two things
> > are the same. In my experience that has typically resulted in both being
> > kept on both sides; a duplicate. Sometimes it seems to be an issue between
> > revisions where something is supported on one device and not the other and
> > that causes a difference assessment. In any case, it is not a good
> > experience.
> >
> > Sadly the reality, as I believe it, is that keeping desktops in sync was
> > never a goal of MS with AS. That is a job for Exchange. It seems clear
> > that the synchronization of multiple PCs was never high on the scenario
> > list, as a very typical scenario has never been addressed. Who doesn't
> > have a PC at work, one at home, and a laptop associated with one or the
> > other, i.e. 3 PCs that need synchronization. Ignoring that scenario
> > indicates to me that synchronization of PIM across PCs was never a real
> > goal in the first place. Doing two was a concession to partnering with
> > more than just home or work, but syncing home and work wasn't the
> > underlying reason. In fact the byproduct mixing of home and work info,
> > irreversibly, was an unintentional (I hope) deterrent to dual partnerships
> > for many people.
> >
> > On the point of Palm doing it well, remember that Palm never had a real
> > file system or any real documents. The whole thing was basically a
> > database, and the entries of any sort were DB entries. Note .pdb is Palm
> > Data Base. I only mention this because synchronizing and merging databases
> > is a well understood art. If your data is in fields in records, you can
> > extend the schema to cover age, dates, indexes, etc. When you start with a
> > little copy of the Windows file system, it presents a bit more of a
> > challenge to keep things under control. Not intended to minimize the
> > issue, just an acknowledgement that syncing Windows Mobile is a different
> > problem than syncing Palm, just because of the basic OS concept.
> >
> > Beyond that, don't know what to say, other than you do seem to have more
> > severe issues than many, and so I would be looking for what is unique
> > about your setup. Installed apps, oddball configurations, multiple USB
> > hubs, maybe substandard USB, something. By odd configuration I mean things
> > that are different than usual. I for instance do run an Exchange server at
> > home, and I connect Outlook on my PCs to it. But, I sync my WM device to
> > Outlook on a PC, not to the server. I find that causes issues when I try
> > to create a partnership with a second PC's Outlook also connected to
> > Exchange. Why, I don't know, but it is a scenario that MS wouldn't
> > 'officially' expect. Why wouldn't I just sync the device with Exchange?
> > Why would I try to sync with two PCs that really should have the same
> > info, that should be the same as the device (syncing with Exchange)?
> >
> > So, best of luck. Short of starting everything from scratch, hard reset
> > the device, and set up the partnership before doing anything else, and let
> > it percolate that way for a week or so to see if it stays stable (assuming
> > it is), I don't know what to suggest that doesn't involve some sort of
> > ritual sacrifice.
> >
> > "John Ciccone" <> wrote in message
> > news:BCF2F673-3B85-4C0E-AB60-...
> >> Thanks so much for the tips, jss. I'll look into XTND.
> >>
> >> Another bit of a bandaid solution for you might be a little Outlook
> >> plugin
> >> called ODIR. Outlook Duplicate Items Remover. It doesn't always get all
> >> duplicates but sometimes it's helped in the process. One place to find it
> >> is
> >>
> >> http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/fil...1619:b20089855
> >>
> >> NB: Since I have quite a number of Notes, Tasks, Contacts, etc. I don't
> >> really have a way of confirming that ODIR works perfectly, but searching
> >> the
> >> net shows that people generally seem to find it reliable.
> >>
> >> Another odd thing that ODIR can't help with is that for some reason,
> >> Carriage Returns/Line Feeds are added to the end of my Notes. Sometimes
> >> lots
> >> of them by accumulation. A couple of Notes have had more CR/LF that
> >> actual
> >> text :-) This seems to change randomly and often. Subsequently, ODIR is
> >> unable to find some duplicates since one of the notes will have 8
> >> Carriage
> >> Returns instead of 6.
> >>
> >> Best of luck and thanks again.
> >>
> >> "jss" wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have a laptop and desktop and a Treo with WM6.1. I'd like to sync
> >>> contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, and files in a given location. I found
> >>> that AS will not sync two pc's. Some folks suggest not syncing notes,
> >>> and if
> >>> that doesn't help enough then don't sync tasks, and so on.
> >>>
> >>> Before I got the Treo, I was very happy with KeySuite from Chapura
> >>> running
> >>> on a Palm Zire 31. It has a bonus of carrying over custom categories and
> >>> label colors. I've been using it to do Outlook sync between the desk and
> >>> laptops; using AS to get the phone updated from the laptop and to also
> >>> sync
> >>> the file folder. It kinda of works but since I've using the phone, I get
> >>> tons of duplicates of some appointments and notes.
> >>>
> >>> I just looked at XTND Connect from Sybase, sold on handango. There is a
> >>> home
> >>> and office version for $90 that might be useful. It still uses Active
> >>> sync
> >>> for the connection. The Sybase website doesn't show this particular
> >>> version
> >>> and the datasheet for the other one is very skimpy. You can get a trial
> >>> from
> >>> Handango. If I have the energy after dealing with AS I might try it.
> >>>
> >>> I may just try to get my Zire scheme working right again. Some of the AS
> >>> problems are due to weaknesses in the WM applications, like no
> >>> categories
> >>> for tasks or colors for appointment labels. Chapura wrote their own app
> >>> for
> >>> the Palm that is more faithful to Outlook than the MS written
> >>> application.
> >>
> >
>
>

.... and don't get ME wrong. I appreciate your informative input and helpful
suggestions. I'm just turning into that old, really cranky guy who's had
enough.

It's certainly crossed my mind that the time I've spent jumping through
hoops to sync could have been better spent building my own handheld with
things from around the kitchen. Or at least switching to a different system.

Perhaps you'll understand how someone who's used computers (heavily) since
the 1980's is more than a bit jaded and reluctant to switch or change. Frying
pan to the fire and all that. If not for a different or worse set of
technical problems, then for trying to support a company/developer that's bad
at what they do, or gets worse at what they do, or just plain disappears. I
wouldn't have been able to research that in the time I've spent unplugging
and replugging.

Do you remember Norton Commander :-) A great app. There was a time when I
would purchase Norton/Symantec products based solely on what was written on
the box. Things changed and got so drastically worse IMO (for consumers as
opposed to enterprise) that I will never purchase another Norton/Symantec
product. They would never be able to say anything that would assure me that
they wouldn't fall back to problem mode that caused me and my small business
a lot of trouble.

So there's my trepidation. Reluctant to go to a big established developer,
or to a new developer. Reticent to switch or try new stuff because of how
long it *might* take to figure out whether it's good to do or not.

Probably sounds silly... but sure, if I knew that I was sitting down to
waste the next four hours unplugging, deleting, creating, plugging, etc.,
etc., of course I'd prefer to spend it researching alternatives. But how long
does it take to be certain of that? And certain that you haven't missed a
patch, or a tweak, or a step?

All that said, what I have seen with things like XTND, Google, etc. looks
interesting and probably worth a shot. I'm checking with developers of my
other software for incompatibilities. Live Mesh looks good too, thanks. But
(and I'm NOT Microsoft bashing here) should I not be concerned about a
developer who's demonstrated the propensity to let things like Win Mobile and
ActiveSync turn into things like Win Mobile and ActiveSync?

(That's not rhetorical :-) Actually, I find it a bit funny that I didn't
realize Live Mesh was MS. Not a lot of logos, domain name clues or references
at all.

Cheers.

"Todd Allcock" wrote:

>
> "John Ciccone" <> wrote in message
> news:43B08855-0986-4788-9922-...
> >
> > "Todd Allcock" wrote:
> >
> >> I'll echo your thoughts, Sven. I've never really understood the point of
> >> syncing two PCs with one mobile device since the device can't keep the
> >> data
> >> segregated anyway.
> >
> > The point is to sync two PCs with one mobile device.
>
>
> I understand- I was just expressing the oft-mentioned frustration that one
> mobile device can't keep the data from two PCs segregated. Many times over
> the years we've heard from those who wanted to sync their work and home
> contacts and calendar with one device, but not merge the data together. I
> suspect that's a more desirable scenario for most people that just keeping
> multiple PCs in lockstep. (And a scenario Microsoft has never delivered.)
>
> In your scenario, (which should work without a hitch, don't get me wrong!)
> you are essentially using your mobile device to keep your two PCs in sync
> with each other, in addition to keeping your data on the device.
>
> > Perhaps I'm alone here, but I have a real problem with the concept of
> > releasing a product or service that doesn't work. It doesn't quite matter
> > to
> > me whether it was intended to do so or not. That only makes it worse. I
> > would
> > be very pleased if someone extended the courtesy of not allowing me to
> > waste
> > my time and money.
> >
> > There were always problems before 6.1 (the threads from many are out
> > there)
> > but since purchasing this new mobile device a couple weeks ago, it's
> > constant, worse and unending. It doesn't seem to be specific to this
> > device.
> >
> > I don't know what I'm supposed to do about a patch that I can't get hold
> > of.
> > And I'm sure someone's cracking their knuckles getting ready to type "Then
> > go
> > back to Palm". Fact is, once somebody spends time and money in hardware,
> > software, training, etc. it's not easy to simply back out.
> >
> > So the fault in fact lies with my trusting a product to do what it was
> > supposed to do. Live and learn, yes?
> >
> > Thanks for your input.
>
> I guess I've become pragmatic in my old age. I understand your frustration
> and agree completely with all of your points. However, time being somewhat
> valuable, I really suggest giving up and moving on- not on your investment
> in devices, but giving up on Activesync. Despite your (legitimate)
> misgivings about using a cloud-based sync solution, I can attest that the
> suggestions I gave do work, and work well. Either the
> Funambol/Scheduleworld (Contacts, Calendar, Tasks, Notes) setup or Google
> Sync (Contacts, Calendar, Tasks) for PIM data, coupled with Live Mesh for
> file sync. In the time you spend each morning recreating a partnership and
> doing an initial sync, you could've had this set up, been done with it, and
> been using the device instead of fighting with it.
>
> Again, in NO way am I excusing the current state of syncing. I'm just
> suggesting that at this point, the official and proper way to sync seems
> like a lost cause in your current setup- there's really nothing you can try
> that you haven't already tried. The decision now, it seems to me, is
> whether, like a long ago cigarette advertisment used to proclaim, you'd
> rather fight than switch...
>
> And if you need any help setting up an alternative sync solution, I'm
> certainly at your disposal, either here or via email (In case it isn't
> obvious, remove "no" and "spam" to de-munge my email.)
>
> (But, I'll also be here for you if you want to continue to vent, too!) ;-)
>
>
>
>

"Todd Allcock" <> wrote in message
news:...
> I'll echo your thoughts, Sven. I've never really understood the point of
> syncing two PCs with one mobile device since the device can't keep the
> data segregated anyway.

I my experience, and I don't have Exchange, Microsoft does not provide a
decent way to keep Outlook in sync on two PCs, which, as everyone seems to
agree, is a reasonable thing to want.

Therefore, we use our mobile devices. Palm or Palm plus Chapura did this
quite easily and quite well. Occasionally something would go wrong and it
would generate some duplicates but in general it works great.

There is a lot of news about the new Windows and how MS paid a lot of
attention to users and how they want to use the products they buy. Maybe
some of this understanding will filter down to WM.