Vista nightmare

I have a gateway desktop computer brought in March with XP media centre and
free upgrade. When the upgrade disk finally arrived I loaded it with little
hassle, choosing the option not to reformat.
The computer runs with an AMD Athlon 64 xz dual core processor 4600+, and 2
GB RAM, upgrade adviser spotted a couple of driver updates i.e. soundacrd,
all sorted no problems.
All worked fine for a few eeks, but in the past two weeks the system has
started to randomly freeze, and I men random, it has frozen after a few
hours, it has frozen on reaching the user name screen, this morning it froze
within one minute of me signing in to my account. It is always switched off
over night, so these early freezes ugest to me it's nothing to do with heat.
There is no obvious link to what application I am running. I followed some
advice on another web site and disabled indexing and a few other things, this
has had no effect on the performance of the computer when it's not frozen,
but has clearly made no difference whatsoever to whether the computer freezes
or not.
I have been patient and when it freezes have waited (up to an hour) to see
if it thaws, but ultimately the only thing I have been able to do is unplug
it at the back. When it freezes I cannot even get the task manager up to
close it that way.

Questions:
1. Is this a completely random thing that is linked with Vista being not
ready for home use?
2. Is there something else I can do to stop it happening?
3. With my method of upgrading ( I followed the provided instructions to the
letter) does this mean I know longer have Xp to fall back on? There doesn't
appear to be a dual boot option.
4. Is it even worth me bothering with Vista? I have a computer to use for a
variety of things, at the moment I am starting to feel like the upgrade was a
complete waste of time, and money.
5. Am I right in thinking that closing the system down in such a way could
cause damage itself?

Many thanks for any help or advice that can be offered.
David.

"David" <> wrote in message
news:60AF3923-085A-4315-86AC-...
>I have a gateway desktop computer brought in March with XP media centre and
> free upgrade. When the upgrade disk finally arrived I loaded it with
> little
> hassle, choosing the option not to reformat.
> The computer runs with an AMD Athlon 64 xz dual core processor 4600+, and
> 2
> GB RAM, upgrade adviser spotted a couple of driver updates i.e. soundacrd,
> all sorted no problems.
> All worked fine for a few eeks, but in the past two weeks the system has
> started to randomly freeze, and I men random, it has frozen after a few
> hours, it has frozen on reaching the user name screen, this morning it
> froze
> within one minute of me signing in to my account. It is always switched
> off
> over night, so these early freezes ugest to me it's nothing to do with
> heat.
> There is no obvious link to what application I am running. I followed some
> advice on another web site and disabled indexing and a few other things,
> this
> has had no effect on the performance of the computer when it's not frozen,
> but has clearly made no difference whatsoever to whether the computer
> freezes
> or not.
> I have been patient and when it freezes have waited (up to an hour) to see
> if it thaws, but ultimately the only thing I have been able to do is
> unplug
> it at the back. When it freezes I cannot even get the task manager up to
> close it that way.
>
> Questions:
> 1. Is this a completely random thing that is linked with Vista being not
> ready for home use?
> 2. Is there something else I can do to stop it happening?
> 3. With my method of upgrading ( I followed the provided instructions to
> the
> letter) does this mean I know longer have Xp to fall back on? There
> doesn't
> appear to be a dual boot option.
> 4. Is it even worth me bothering with Vista? I have a computer to use for
> a
> variety of things, at the moment I am starting to feel like the upgrade
> was a
> complete waste of time, and money.
> 5. Am I right in thinking that closing the system down in such a way could
> cause damage itself?
>
> Many thanks for any help or advice that can be offered.

If you have any data, then back up the data. I think most that have some
experience in this area will tell is not to upgrade over an existing O/S
such as XP.

I have never done an upgrade moving to different versions on the NT based
O/S(s) such as Vista and others on the same machine. You boot off CD/DVD,
format the HD and lay down Vista fresh to avoid the potential problems
you're having due to an upgrade over an existing O/S, because things just
don't happen right when you do it.

What do you have to loose? XP is gone. You should wipe the machine out and
lay down Vista fresh.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 01:41:00 -0700, David

>I have a gateway desktop computer brought in March with XP media centre and
>free upgrade. When the upgrade disk finally arrived I loaded it with little
>hassle, choosing the option not to reformat.

OK...

>The computer runs with an AMD Athlon 64 xz dual core processor 4600+, and 2
>GB RAM, upgrade adviser spotted a couple of driver updates i.e. soundacrd,
>all sorted no problems.

OK... I may ask you where the drivers came from ;-)

>All worked fine for a few (w)eeks, but in the past two weeks the system has
>started to randomly freeze, and I men random

In these circumstances, my first step would be to verify the hardware.

The system's too young to expect failing caps within the motherboard,
power supply or other cards, so it's more likely to be bad RAM, or
possibly bad hard drive. It may also be "waiting" for some
peripheral, so I'd also test with all add-ons (printers, scanners,
etc. unplugged and off all networks (including WiFi).

Start by 24 hours of MemTest86, then I'd test HD using HD Tune from
www.hdtune.com (needs to be run as admin from Vista, can also run from
an XP/2003-based Bart CDR boot)

Second step would be to formally exclude malware. In XP, I'd run my
scanners and manual cleanup tools from a Bart CDR boot; in Vista, I'd
try the mOS built into the DVD's boot (repair, command prompt) except
I suspect lack of admin rights will cripple this environment.

Third step would be to reversably disable non-MS services, startup
entries, and other integrations, and then see if lockups only happen
when certain apps are in use.

>It is always switched off over night, so these early freezes ugest to
>me it's nothing to do with heat.

Hmm, yes. No CPU heatsink (or a bad seal) will usually shut the PC
down before it's out of POST, whereas a fan snag may run for quite a
while; and finally, other devices (HD, mobo, SVGA) can overheat, too.

But I agree it sounds unlikely. If you said "I can work all day in
Word, but within a few minutes of playing 3D games, it crashes", I'd
suspect the graphics card, or (if graphics card recently added) a PSU
that is insufficient to power the card, or missing additional power
connections that some cards may need.

>I have been patient and when it freezes have waited (up to an hour) to see
>if it thaws, but ultimately the only thing I have been able to do is unplug
>it at the back. When it freezes I cannot even get the task manager up to
>close it that way.

Standard tests when "freeze":
- move mouse; does pointer move on screen?
- press NumLock etc.; do keyboard LEDs respond?
- try responses to these keystrokes:
- Alt+Tab
- Alt+F4
- Ctl+Esc
- Ctl+Alt+Del
- press (do not hold) ATX off; do you get HD burble and shutdown?
- hold ATX off for 20 secs (will bad-exit Windows!!); does it off?
- press Reset button (will bad-exit Windows!!); does it reset?

IOW, what you're after is info on how deep the freeze, i.e. is it just
one foreground app that's busy, loss of screen display (i.e. lock keys
change keyboard LED status, ATX off press does normal shutdown), is
the processor still processing (no keyboard LED response to lock keys
is a strong indication it is not), etc.

>Questions:
>1. Is this a completely random thing that is linked with Vista being not
>ready for home use?

I doubt it, no. Not seen a pattern of such cases here, and my Vista
user base is almost all Vista Home Basic.

>2. Is there something else I can do to stop it happening?

As above. If you have your data backed up, can also return the PC to
reseller for warranty assessment, but brace yourself for it coming
back wiped and rebuilt. Them folks ain't always gentle.

>3. With my method of upgrading ( I followed the provided instructions to the
>letter) does this mean I no longer have Xp to fall back on?

Yep. An upgrade OS license replaces that which you upgraded from, so
from that perspective, you aren't entitled to keep both, even on the
same PC - so I'd be surprised if the process retained XP.

>4. Is it even worth me bothering with Vista? I have a computer to use for a
>variety of things, at the moment I am starting to feel like the upgrade was a
>complete waste of time, and money.

Difficult call. I'd say yes, especially given the spec, but the
benefits may only kick in in a year or two's time. On a new PC that's
expected to be used for 3+ years, that's valuable, but on a 2-year-old
XP PC that's expected to be replaced soon, I'd say not.

>5. Am I right in thinking that closing the system down in such a way could
>cause damage itself?

Yes. Vista will paper over this by automagically "fixing" everything
via AutChk, but you'd be bleeding from damage to file system as well
as the contents of files (which is disregarded by AutoChk).

It must be fixed, IMO.



>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

scan the event logs to see if anything shows up.
also check the Reliability and Performance monitor screens for possible problems.
and Control Panel Problem Reports and Solutions.

vista keeps tons of data about its performance.







"David" <> wrote in message news:60AF3923-085A-4315-86AC-...
I have a gateway desktop computer brought in March with XP media centre and
free upgrade. When the upgrade disk finally arrived I loaded it with little
hassle, choosing the option not to reformat.
The computer runs with an AMD Athlon 64 xz dual core processor 4600+, and 2
GB RAM, upgrade adviser spotted a couple of driver updates i.e. soundacrd,
all sorted no problems.
All worked fine for a few eeks, but in the past two weeks the system has
started to randomly freeze, and I men random, it has frozen after a few
hours, it has frozen on reaching the user name screen, this morning it froze
within one minute of me signing in to my account. It is always switched off
over night, so these early freezes ugest to me it's nothing to do with heat.
There is no obvious link to what application I am running. I followed some
advice on another web site and disabled indexing and a few other things, this
has had no effect on the performance of the computer when it's not frozen,
but has clearly made no difference whatsoever to whether the computer freezes
or not.
I have been patient and when it freezes have waited (up to an hour) to see
if it thaws, but ultimately the only thing I have been able to do is unplug
it at the back. When it freezes I cannot even get the task manager up to
close it that way.

Questions:
1. Is this a completely random thing that is linked with Vista being not
ready for home use?
2. Is there something else I can do to stop it happening?
3. With my method of upgrading ( I followed the provided instructions to the
letter) does this mean I know longer have Xp to fall back on? There doesn't
appear to be a dual boot option.
4. Is it even worth me bothering with Vista? I have a computer to use for a
variety of things, at the moment I am starting to feel like the upgrade was a
complete waste of time, and money.
5. Am I right in thinking that closing the system down in such a way could
cause damage itself?

Many thanks for any help or advice that can be offered.
David.

If the system worked well for a few weeks, and only started acting up two
weeks ago.. think back two weeks to any changes you might have made, or
programs you might have installed..


"David" <> wrote in message
news:60AF3923-085A-4315-86AC-...
>I have a gateway desktop computer brought in March with XP media centre and
> free upgrade. When the upgrade disk finally arrived I loaded it with
> little
> hassle, choosing the option not to reformat.
> The computer runs with an AMD Athlon 64 xz dual core processor 4600+, and
> 2
> GB RAM, upgrade adviser spotted a couple of driver updates i.e. soundacrd,
> all sorted no problems.
> All worked fine for a few eeks, but in the past two weeks the system has
> started to randomly freeze, and I men random, it has frozen after a few
> hours, it has frozen on reaching the user name screen, this morning it
> froze
> within one minute of me signing in to my account. It is always switched
> off
> over night, so these early freezes ugest to me it's nothing to do with
> heat.
> There is no obvious link to what application I am running. I followed some
> advice on another web site and disabled indexing and a few other things,
> this
> has had no effect on the performance of the computer when it's not frozen,
> but has clearly made no difference whatsoever to whether the computer
> freezes
> or not.
> I have been patient and when it freezes have waited (up to an hour) to see
> if it thaws, but ultimately the only thing I have been able to do is
> unplug
> it at the back. When it freezes I cannot even get the task manager up to
> close it that way.
>
> Questions:
> 1. Is this a completely random thing that is linked with Vista being not
> ready for home use?
> 2. Is there something else I can do to stop it happening?
> 3. With my method of upgrading ( I followed the provided instructions to
> the
> letter) does this mean I know longer have Xp to fall back on? There
> doesn't
> appear to be a dual boot option.
> 4. Is it even worth me bothering with Vista? I have a computer to use for
> a
> variety of things, at the moment I am starting to feel like the upgrade
> was a
> complete waste of time, and money.
> 5. Am I right in thinking that closing the system down in such a way could
> cause damage itself?
>
> Many thanks for any help or advice that can be offered.
> David.

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

David wrote:
> I have a gateway desktop computer brought in March with XP media centre and
> free upgrade. When the upgrade disk finally arrived I loaded it with little
> hassle, choosing the option not to reformat.
> The computer runs with an AMD Athlon 64 xz dual core processor 4600+, and 2
> GB RAM, upgrade adviser spotted a couple of driver updates i.e. soundacrd,
> all sorted no problems.
> All worked fine for a few eeks, but in the past two weeks the system has
> started to randomly freeze, and I men random, it has frozen after a few
> hours, it has frozen on reaching the user name screen, this morning it froze
> within one minute of me signing in to my account. It is always switched off
> over night, so these early freezes ugest to me it's nothing to do with heat.
> There is no obvious link to what application I am running. I followed some
> advice on another web site and disabled indexing and a few other things, this
> has had no effect on the performance of the computer when it's not frozen,
> but has clearly made no difference whatsoever to whether the computer freezes
> or not.
> I have been patient and when it freezes have waited (up to an hour) to see
> if it thaws, but ultimately the only thing I have been able to do is unplug
> it at the back. When it freezes I cannot even get the task manager up to
> close it that way.
>
> Questions:
> 1. Is this a completely random thing that is linked with Vista being not
> ready for home use?


No, it's almost certainly a hardware issue. I'd suspect the RAM as the
most likely "culprit." Start with testing the RAM. You might try
MemTest86: http://www.memtest86.com/ It's free. Then you can download
and use the hard drive maufacturer's diagnostic utility to test the hard
drive. If both RAM and hard drive test out clean, check with the
motherboard manufacturer for any diagnostic utilities.

Contact the manufacturer for warranty support.


> 2. Is there something else I can do to stop it happening?

Replace the defective or incompatible hardware component(s) causing it.


> 3. With my method of upgrading ( I followed the provided instructions to the
> letter) does this mean I know longer have Xp to fall back on? There doesn't
> appear to be a dual boot option.


No, you can remove Vista if you like, but doing so won't fix your
hardware problem, unless it is a matter of compatibility.

How to restore a computer to a previous Windows installation after you
install Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/933168/en-us


> 4. Is it even worth me bothering with Vista? I have a computer to use for a
> variety of things, at the moment I am starting to feel like the upgrade was a
> complete waste of time, and money.


That's the sort of question that one would normally ask *before* making
the decision to upgrade. However, if your only reason for upgrading was
to have the "newest and shiniest" OS, then it probably was a waste of money.


> 5. Am I right in thinking that closing the system down in such a way could
> cause damage itself?
>

You shouldn't be causing any physical damage, but you can certainly
cause registry and data corruption, which are probably exacerbating the
problem.




--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 01:41:00 -0700, David wrote:

> I have a gateway desktop computer brought in March with XP media centre and
> free upgrade. When the upgrade disk finally arrived I loaded it with little
> hassle, choosing the option not to reformat.
> The computer runs with an AMD Athlon 64 xz dual core processor 4600+, and 2
> GB RAM, upgrade adviser spotted a couple of driver updates i.e. soundacrd,
> all sorted no problems.
> All worked fine for a few eeks, but in the past two weeks the system has
> started to randomly freeze, and I men random, it has frozen after a few
> hours, it has frozen on reaching the user name screen, this morning it froze
> within one minute of me signing in to my account. It is always switched off
> over night, so these early freezes ugest to me it's nothing to do with heat.
> There is no obvious link to what application I am running. I followed some
> advice on another web site and disabled indexing and a few other things, this
> has had no effect on the performance of the computer when it's not frozen,
> but has clearly made no difference whatsoever to whether the computer freezes
> or not.
> I have been patient and when it freezes have waited (up to an hour) to see
> if it thaws, but ultimately the only thing I have been able to do is unplug
> it at the back. When it freezes I cannot even get the task manager up to
> close it that way.
>
> Questions:
> 1. Is this a completely random thing that is linked with Vista being not
> ready for home use?
> 2. Is there something else I can do to stop it happening?
> 3. With my method of upgrading ( I followed the provided instructions to the
> letter) does this mean I know longer have Xp to fall back on? There doesn't
> appear to be a dual boot option.
> 4. Is it even worth me bothering with Vista? I have a computer to use for a
> variety of things, at the moment I am starting to feel like the upgrade was a
> complete waste of time, and money.
> 5. Am I right in thinking that closing the system down in such a way could
> cause damage itself?
>
> Many thanks for any help or advice that can be offered.
> David.

Several reports indicate that vista works better from a fresh install than
from an upgrade. Other reports indicate that it works best being
pre-installed. I know many reputable consultants who advise not using
vista until at least SP1.

ray wrote:
> I know many reputable consultants who advise not using
> vista until at least SP1.
>


Are those the same "reputable" consultants that mindlessly repeat the
same advice about *every* new operating system as if it were some sort
of magical formula or mystical mantra?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

nope, its the mvps in these news groups.







"Bruce Chambers" <3t> wrote in message news:%...
ray wrote:
> I know many reputable consultants who advise not using
> vista until at least SP1.
>


Are those the same "reputable" consultants that mindlessly repeat the
same advice about *every* new operating system as if it were some sort
of magical formula or mystical mantra?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

"ray" <> wrote in message
news...
> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 01:41:00 -0700, David wrote:
>
>> I have a gateway desktop computer brought in March with XP media centre
>> and
>> free upgrade. When the upgrade disk finally arrived I loaded it with
>> little
>> hassle, choosing the option not to reformat.
>> The computer runs with an AMD Athlon 64 xz dual core processor 4600+, and
>> 2
>> GB RAM, upgrade adviser spotted a couple of driver updates i.e.
>> soundacrd,
>> all sorted no problems.
>> All worked fine for a few eeks, but in the past two weeks the system has
>> started to randomly freeze, and I men random, it has frozen after a few
>> hours, it has frozen on reaching the user name screen, this morning it
>> froze
>> within one minute of me signing in to my account. It is always switched
>> off
>> over night, so these early freezes ugest to me it's nothing to do with
>> heat.
>> There is no obvious link to what application I am running. I followed
>> some
>> advice on another web site and disabled indexing and a few other things,
>> this
>> has had no effect on the performance of the computer when it's not
>> frozen,
>> but has clearly made no difference whatsoever to whether the computer
>> freezes
>> or not.
>> I have been patient and when it freezes have waited (up to an hour) to
>> see
>> if it thaws, but ultimately the only thing I have been able to do is
>> unplug
>> it at the back. When it freezes I cannot even get the task manager up to
>> close it that way.
>>
>> Questions:
>> 1. Is this a completely random thing that is linked with Vista being not
>> ready for home use?
>> 2. Is there something else I can do to stop it happening?
>> 3. With my method of upgrading ( I followed the provided instructions to
>> the
>> letter) does this mean I know longer have Xp to fall back on? There
>> doesn't
>> appear to be a dual boot option.
>> 4. Is it even worth me bothering with Vista? I have a computer to use for
>> a
>> variety of things, at the moment I am starting to feel like the upgrade
>> was a
>> complete waste of time, and money.
>> 5. Am I right in thinking that closing the system down in such a way
>> could
>> cause damage itself?
>>
>> Many thanks for any help or advice that can be offered.
>> David.
>
> Several reports indicate that vista works better from a fresh install than
> from an upgrade. Other reports indicate that it works best being
> pre-installed. I know many reputable consultants who advise not using
> vista until at least SP1.
>


Agree with the clean install bit... as to waiting until SP1... well, guess I
couldn't wait. LOL!

Lang