Windows Vista - SP2 - What functionality is removed this time?

Hi,

I am wondering if anyone has tried SP2 Beta and found out what functionality
Microsoft has removed this time?

Going from XP to Vista the reduced functions are a mile long including such
things as
-taking away file type manager
- taking away ability to put My Documents and not whole profile on desktop
-taking away being able to set permissions on Fonts
-taking away the ability to open more than 15 files at once or even two
files of different types (even if opened with the same program)
- taking away photo importer ability to select photos

Going from Vista to Vista SP1 even more functionality was removed including.
- Taking away search pretty much entirely. - No more right click, no more
search in the Start Menu, just left the dumbed down mini search at the bottom
of the start bar where you can't specifiy anything.
- Taking away the ability to put Internet Explorer on the desktop.

Now some of it I was able to hack with registry hacks and some with 3rd
party utilities (boy is that ever backwards).

So now I am getting quesy at the thought of SP2. Yes I need it to fix all
the bugs of SP1 especially the speed of Windows Explorer but I am hesitant
because I am sure there is more functionality they are taking away.

Thanks
Lara

"lforbes" <> wrote in message
news:9A24FF1D-7B11-443A-84BB-...
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if anyone has tried SP2 Beta and found out what
> functionality
> Microsoft has removed this time?
>
> Going from XP to Vista the reduced functions are a mile long including
> such
> things as
> -taking away file type manager
> - taking away ability to put My Documents and not whole profile on desktop
> -taking away being able to set permissions on Fonts
> -taking away the ability to open more than 15 files at once or even two
> files of different types (even if opened with the same program)
> - taking away photo importer ability to select photos
>
> Going from Vista to Vista SP1 even more functionality was removed
> including.
> - Taking away search pretty much entirely. - No more right click, no more
> search in the Start Menu, just left the dumbed down mini search at the
> bottom
> of the start bar where you can't specifiy anything.
> - Taking away the ability to put Internet Explorer on the desktop.
>
> Now some of it I was able to hack with registry hacks and some with 3rd
> party utilities (boy is that ever backwards).
>
> So now I am getting quesy at the thought of SP2. Yes I need it to fix all
> the bugs of SP1 especially the speed of Windows Explorer but I am hesitant
> because I am sure there is more functionality they are taking away.
>
> Thanks
> Lara\

Lara,

Clearly you are not happy with Vista and the direction that Microsoft is
moving with their OS's. Have you considered just moving to a different
operating system or going back to XP if you were happy with it? It would
spare you all of your apparent misery and you wouldn't have to waste your
time on this newsgroup.

"[signious]" <> wrote in message
news:4944b15b$...
> telling everyone that vista is **** in a vista newsgroup is everyones DUTY
>
> people will wander in here who may be thinking of getting vista or not...
>
> the more **** they read about vista the better....
>
>
>
> lets all call vista ****, as a public service...
>
>
>
> now stick out your dik and slam a vista dvd box shut on it.... I think you
> will enjoy that scumbag!


Just trying to help the original poster find some peace and sanity. Life is
too short to be so unhappy. If you don't like something you should just move
on instead of getting all worked up with the name calling and stuff. If most
normal folks go to a restaraunt that serves food they don't like, they don't
go back for another helping...and they don't stand out front calling patrons
who like the food scumbags. So feel free to get yourself all worked up...but
remember that you are the one who is worked up. Don't for a minute think
that your name calling reflects on anyone but yourself.



>
>
>
> "Charles Tomaras" <> wrote in message
> news:XB01l.5093$...
>>
>> "lforbes" <> wrote in message
>> news:9A24FF1D-7B11-443A-84BB-...
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am wondering if anyone has tried SP2 Beta and found out what
>>> functionality
>>> Microsoft has removed this time?
>>>
>>> Going from XP to Vista the reduced functions are a mile long including
>>> such
>>> things as
>>> -taking away file type manager
>>> - taking away ability to put My Documents and not whole profile on
>>> desktop
>>> -taking away being able to set permissions on Fonts
>>> -taking away the ability to open more than 15 files at once or even two
>>> files of different types (even if opened with the same program)
>>> - taking away photo importer ability to select photos
>>>
>>> Going from Vista to Vista SP1 even more functionality was removed
>>> including.
>>> - Taking away search pretty much entirely. - No more right click, no
>>> more
>>> search in the Start Menu, just left the dumbed down mini search at the
>>> bottom
>>> of the start bar where you can't specifiy anything.
>>> - Taking away the ability to put Internet Explorer on the desktop.
>>>
>>> Now some of it I was able to hack with registry hacks and some with 3rd
>>> party utilities (boy is that ever backwards).
>>>
>>> So now I am getting quesy at the thought of SP2. Yes I need it to fix
>>> all
>>> the bugs of SP1 especially the speed of Windows Explorer but I am
>>> hesitant
>>> because I am sure there is more functionality they are taking away.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Lara\
>>
>> Lara,
>>
>> Clearly you are not happy with Vista and the direction that Microsoft is
>> moving with their OS's. Have you considered just moving to a different
>> operating system or going back to XP if you were happy with it? It would
>> spare you all of your apparent misery and you wouldn't have to waste your
>> time on this newsgroup.
>>

Many of the features you have listed as having been taken away hav
actually been replaced with something better or, in some cases, simpl
moved. In others they really have not changed at all

File Type Management (file extension association) is now done with a
app rather than through the folder customization interface, which make
a lot more sense to me. The tool is called "Default Programs" and i
located in the Control Panel

"My Documents" is replaced by "Documents," which is permanently locate
on the Windows Main Menu. You can opt to place your profile on th
desktop, or if you prefer just your documents you can still drag
shortcut to your desktop.

You can still set permissions on fonts. You must be logged in as a
Admin. Goto to Control panel, Fonts tool. Right-click on a font
select Properties. Goto the Security tab. Click the Edit button. Mak
changes. Apply. Be careful not to mess with System Fonts

The issue about opening more than 15 docs at once has been covered i
other threads ad nauseum, so I'll summarize - the disappearance of th
"Open" item in the context menu (right-click menu) when more than 1
files are selected occurs for apps with legacy shell integration. I
other words, the app with which the particular file type is associate
is at fault for using the old shell integration interface, not the OS.
Many apps are guilty of this - even some popular MS apps (MS Word 2007
for example). The work-around for this is simple: open the target app
select the files you want to open, and drag them to the app's title bar
It was done intentionally for performance reasons and as more apps ar
updated to do things the new way this will disappear

The "dumbing down" of Windows Search happened because Google sued MS.
They wanted their 3rd-party desktop search engine to be on equal footin
with Windows Search and were upset that the excellent integration o
Windows Search with the OS gave the Microsoft product an unfai
competitive advantage. To avoid protracted litigation and a re-openin
of the "illegal bundling" wound that is costing MS so much money i
Europe, SP1 dumbed WS down so that Google's product had a chance. Ther
are ways to get it back, but, for obvious reasons, MS cannot have an
hand in making this happen or in making it easier for you to do i
yourself. Here's a related link
'Microsoft details Vista SP1 search changes | InfoWorld | News
2007-09-12 | By Elizabeth Montalbano, IDG News Service
(http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/...changes_1.html

You can't place IE directly on the desktop, but you can place
shortcut to IE to your desktop (which is really essentially the sam
thing), you can use the QuickLaunch bar you can use a SideBa
app-launcher, or simply launch it from the Windows Menu

--
breitak67

breitak67,

Don't waste your breath, mate. Lara wasn't really asking a question - she
just wanted to indulge in an anti-Vista rant.

Personally I wish people like her would just install Linux and leave us all
in peace.

SteveT

>
> Lara,
>
> Clearly you are not happy with Vista and the direction that Microsoft is
> moving with their OS's. Have you considered just moving to a different
> operating system or going back to XP if you were happy with it? It would
> spare you all of your apparent misery and you wouldn't have to waste your
> time on this newsgroup.
>

I am a Network Administrator and have been for 20 years. I run Windows in my
network and have been since Dos and Windows NT 3.51. I have always prefered
Windows OS and I have been a Mac tech for almost the same 20 years. I run a
few Linux based systems but don't prefer it.

Vista is the first Microsoft OS that I haven't implemented in my network
within weeks of release. Apparently I am not the only one.

Instead of accepting that they messed up a lot of things by removing
functionalility, I have found the MS developers that I have dealt with get
defensive instead. What they should be doing is fixing it. It can't be that
difficult to put back the functionality they removed.

There is no rhyme nor reason for taking away functionality.

Cheers,
Lara

Actually it is not a rant at all. I just want the developers to stop getting
defensive and actually FIX Vista. I am forced to implement it in the next
year into my network and right now it will be a complete disaster and require
another server just for the duplicate profiles and Group policies.

"Steve Thackery" wrote:

> breitak67,
>
> Don't waste your breath, mate. Lara wasn't really asking a question - she
> just wanted to indulge in an anti-Vista rant.
>
> Personally I wish people like her would just install Linux and leave us all
> in peace.
>
> SteveT
>
>

"lforbes" <> wrote in message
news:470325C6-17E0-49C8-9128-...
> Actually it is not a rant at all. I just want the developers to stop
> getting
> defensive and actually FIX Vista. I am forced to implement it in the next
> year into my network and right now it will be a complete disaster and
> require
> another server just for the duplicate profiles and Group policies.
>

So, you might actually have to perform some duties you are being paid for ?
Quit whining.

Or just quit.
You get paid...DO IT.

Lazy little piglet.

It's not "the developers" only you are talking about. There are program
managers, account managers, vice presidents and marketing weasels. The last
is what we called them when I worked for development. They are all justly
proud of their MBAs and their PhDs, and they believe that they took
something broken (XP) and made it into something beautiful and useful
(Vista). They don't understand why you don't like it and why you can't
accept it. They think you are blocking progress just because you are put
off by the idea of a "learning curve". How many person-hours would it take
to bring all the people you support up to speed on Vista, reduced
functionality and all?

I have seen a bit of a circular argument here. You need Vista to take
advantage of all the new hardware features that have come out. (XP is
available in 64-bit too.) You need the new hardware so you can run Vista.
Sure it's "cooler" but maybe it doesn't do all that much for people who need
to get a job done. What is happening in Detroit is an example of what
happens when an industry produces things that people don't want or need.

It's natural for people to be defensive after having done something stupid.
It's going to take a long time for the Vista "team" to lose some of their
defensiveness.

Earle

"lforbes" <> wrote in message
news:470325C6-17E0-49C8-9128-...
> Actually it is not a rant at all. I just want the developers to stop
> getting
> defensive and actually FIX Vista. I am forced to implement it in the next
> year into my network and right now it will be a complete disaster and
> require
> another server just for the duplicate profiles and Group policies.
>
> "Steve Thackery" wrote:
>
>> breitak67,
>>
>> Don't waste your breath, mate. Lara wasn't really asking a question -
>> she
>> just wanted to indulge in an anti-Vista rant.
>>
>> Personally I wish people like her would just install Linux and leave us
>> all
>> in peace.
>>
>> SteveT
>>
>>

"breitak67" wrote:

> File Type Management (file extension association) is now done with an
> app rather than through the folder customization interface, which makes
> a lot more sense to me. The tool is called "Default Programs" and is
> located in the Control Panel.
>

Thanks but the Default Programs tool does not actually modify the
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT registry. Therefore it doesn't work about 50% of the time.
I have Office 2003 and Office 2007 on my machine (for testing in multiple
license network). After every update, MS changes the default BACK to Office
2003. If I go to Default Programs and specifically choose C:\Program
Files\Microsoft Office\Office12\Winword.exe it will say "ok" and show "Word"
and then just leave it at C:\Program Files\Microsoft
Office\Office11\winword.exe

Default Programs does not let you set multiple programs for the same file
type. Eg. with File Types Manager I could add "Open with Fireworks, Open with
Photoshop, Open with Paint etc. It also doesn't let you set a default action
like "Edit" instead of "Open" like I do with my vbs scripts.

> "My Documents" is replaced by "Documents," which is permanently located
> on the Windows Main Menu. You can opt to place your profile on the
> desktop, or if you prefer just your documents you can still drag a
> shortcut to your desktop.
>

Yes but in a network I have 2500 users. I need to set this in Group Policy.
Dragging a shortcut is not going to work with 2500 profiles where their My
Documents are in all different locations. Also giving users full visual
access to their Profile folder where they can delete essential files is a big
disaster waiting to happen. Right now they cannot see C:\ so although they
can write to their profile through programs they cannot actually access it
through Explorer.

> You can still set permissions on fonts. You must be logged in as an
> Admin. Goto to Control panel, Fonts tool. Right-click on a font,
> select Properties. Goto the Security tab. Click the Edit button. Make
> changes. Apply. Be careful not to mess with System Fonts.
>
Thanks for that. I didn't know I could set on individual fonts. I usually
set security on the Fonts folder itself. Users cannot have access to write
fonts to the Font folder. I am not sure with Vista because I can't even see
the security tab for the fonts folder.

> The issue about opening more than 15 docs at once has been covered in
> other threads ad nauseum, so I'll summarize - the disappearance of the
> "Open" item in the context menu (right-click menu) when more than 15
> files are selected occurs for apps with legacy shell integration. In
> other words, the app with which the particular file type is associated
> is at fault for using the old shell integration interface, not the OS.
> Many apps are guilty of this - even some popular MS apps (MS Word 2007,
> for example). The work-around for this is simple: open the target app,
> select the files you want to open, and drag them to the app's title bar.
> It was done intentionally for performance reasons and as more apps are
> updated to do things the new way this will disappear.
>

Yes I did find the threads about this. I guess in 10 years when all the
applications catch up then it won't be an issue. Unfortunately even Microsoft
Default installed applications like Paint and Notepad don't even support this
new shell. Not to mention Office 2007.

> The "dumbing down" of Windows Search happened because Google sued MS.
> They wanted their 3rd-party desktop search engine to be on equal footing
> with Windows Search and were upset that the excellent integration of
> Windows Search with the OS gave the Microsoft product an unfair
> competitive advantage. To avoid protracted litigation and a re-opening
> of the "illegal bundling" wound that is costing MS so much money in
> Europe, SP1 dumbed WS down so that Google's product had a chance. There
> are ways to get it back, but, for obvious reasons, MS cannot have any
> hand in making this happen or in making it easier for you to do it
> yourself. Here's a related link:
> 'Microsoft details Vista SP1 search changes | InfoWorld | News |
> 2007-09-12 | By Elizabeth Montalbano, IDG News Service'
> (http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/...changes_1.html)

Just removing the Search from the right click shouldn't have been the
solution to this. That left everyone without any search at all. I don't use
Google but I have the choice in IE who I want to have as my default. Why
couldn't they have just created an application that gave you a choice on what
Search product to use and then include the context menus for that?
Personally I prefer the Windows XP search. I don't like the indexing at all
because 90% of the files I search for are not indexed (being windows files).

> You can't place IE directly on the desktop, but you can place a
> shortcut to IE to your desktop (which is really essentially the same
> thing), you can use the QuickLaunch bar you can use a SideBar
> app-launcher, or simply launch it from the Windows Menu.
>

Again 2500 users issue. This was done automatically before and could be
turned off via Group Policy. Because it was removed with even XP SP3 it has
created a DISASTER of calls in my network with everyone trying to figure out
what happened to their IE icon. Also right clicking the IE gave the Internet
Features which is not the same with the icon.

Thanks anyway. I am just praying that the MS developers get their heads out
of the sand and fix the problems with Windows 7 or I will be switching to
Linux or Mac.