16 bit DOS in vista, change of kyeboard layout and loosing icons

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by Thostrup, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. Thostrup

    Thostrup Guest

    In Vista Business (Danish) I have following problems with some old 16 bit Dos
    programs:

    - They can't run in fullscreen mode (but this is a well known Vista
    limitation so newer mind)
    - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
    an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an .cmd
    file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
    you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
    - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
    (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout is
    still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN US
    but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue on
    win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!

    Any ideas out there !!

    Regards Thostrup, denmark
     
    Thostrup, Aug 21, 2007
    #1
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  2. If you cannot get it working, two alternatives to using CMD, are either
    installing Win9x/2000/XP on VirtualPC and running it from that, or using
    DOSBox.

    http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Aug 21, 2007
    #2
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  3. Actually, installing the Danish version of MS-DOS on VirtualPC might be the
    neatest answer, if you have the disks.

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Aug 21, 2007
    #3
  4. Thostrup

    Chen Shen Guest

    You could try setting your language settings to be system wide default
    rather than merely for your user...

    Regional and Language Options -> Administrative -> under Reserved accounts
    "Copy to reserved accounts..."
     
    Chen Shen, Aug 22, 2007
    #4
  5. Hej Thostrup,

    Hvordan har du det? (Undskyld! Jeg kan ikke dansk).
    There was some reason why this happens, but I don't remember exactly what
    that reason was. Anyway, it is a known problem for all 16 bit DOS
    applications, on all languages and versions of Vista. I think you just need
    to put up with it.

    Vista itself has far better multilingual abilities than earlier versions of
    Windows. But for compatibility, the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS Machine") in
    Vista behaves just like the DOS of old ... in other words, it has poor
    multilingual abilities! But, you can configure the NTVDM to run a Danish
    codepage just like you did on a "real" MS-DOS PC, back in 1992.

    First, test that KB16 runs okay, by entering the command:

    C:\Windows\System32\KB16 DK,850,C:\Windows\System32\KEYBOARD.SYS

    .... to enable a Danish keyboard. KB16 should return to a command prompt,
    with no messages (error, or otherwise). The Danish keyboard will remain
    active until you close the DOS prompt.

    On Windows NT (including 2000, XP and Vista) a DOS application takes its
    startup environment from the files C:\Windows\System32\Config.NT and
    C:\Windows\System32\Autoexec.NT. So to activate a code page for a DOS app,
    add the Danish code page commands to C:\Windows\System32\CONFIG.NT and
    C:\Windows\System32\AUTOEXEC.NT, the same as you would to C:\CONFIG.SYS and
    C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT on a DOS machine.

    In CONFIG.NT add to the end of the file:

    COUNTRY=045,850,C:\Windows\System32\COUNTRY.SYS

    In AUTOEXEC.NT add to the end of the file:

    C:\Windows\System32\KB16 DK,850,C:\Windows\System32\KEYBOARD.SYS

    Now to test, open a Command Prompt.
    Then run the command "command.com". This will start an instance of the
    MS-DOS Command processor.
    Run the command "edit", to start the DOS editor.
    Try typing in a few words in Edit, to see if the new Danish keyboard is in
    effect.

    If it doesn't work in Edit, then review the above steps carefully.

    If it works in Edit, but doesn't work in your old DOS application, then your
    app is not taking its code page info from DOS. It may be storing it in a
    config file, or the like.

    If it works in your application - hey, problem solved!

    Hope it helps; let us know how you get on.

    Vi ses! :)
     
    Andrew McLaren, Aug 22, 2007
    #5
  6. Thostrup

    Thostrup Guest

    G'day Andrew (Sorry, my australian is a bit rusty!)

    Thanks very much for your solution. I edited autoexec and config.nt and
    everything works like a charm. I simply had forgotten the kb16 option. Had
    only tried keyb and found that it wasn't supported. Is keyb.com 32 bit and
    kb16.com 16 bit or what?

    You have nothing to ad to the icon issue? Maybee a Microsoft bug or what?

    To Chen Shen
    Tried your proposal; no luck. But thanks anyway!

    To Synapse Syndrome
    Have plyed around with both DosBox and Virtual PC 2007 - both neat programs,
    but to my needs I think it's a bit overkill - thanks anyway!
     
    Thostrup, Aug 22, 2007
    #6
  7. You have nothing to ad to the icon issue? Maybee a Microsoft bug or what?

    This problem came up, back during the Vista beta. I thought I still had an
    email from the Windows dev guy, but I can't find it now. Anyway as I recall,
    it was sort of "by design". It was not a deliberate change, but because of
    the way some shell APIs now worked in Vista, it was really difficult to
    display the icon resources from 16-bit files. I can't remember the precise
    details - sorry. I think it is unlikely Microsoft will ever fix this,
    because it's not a functional problem (ie, the icon still *works*, it just
    doesn't display the resource); and to fix it would have been a lot of
    complicated work for a fairly edge scenario.

    But if lots of people complain, I guess they will consider fixing/changing
    it!

    Cheers,
     
    Andrew McLaren, Aug 22, 2007
    #7
  8. Thostrup

    Bertolet Guest

     
    Bertolet, Aug 29, 2007
    #8
  9. Thostrup

    Bertolet Guest

    This was very annoying to me also. I came up with a work-around that when
    completed had a beautiful icon and to the user responds exactly the same as
    under other versions of windows.

    1. Create a new directory for all your missing icon 16 bit files and
    populate it. (I called mine "16 bit."
    2. Create a new directory for the macros you will write (I call mine
    "Macros")
    3. Create batch (*.bat) files for all your 16 bit programs. The beauty
    here is that all program switches, navagation, directory changes etc. can me
    included. Follow this with the "exit" command to return to windows. Save
    this file into the Macros directory.
    4. Send a shortcut to the desktop of the *.bat file,
    5. Add any icon and rename the file as desired.
    6. When you access this file from the desktop it behaves exactly as the
    program pif under Windows XP.

    If you have any questions about any of these steps, please feel free to
    contact me at

    It is amazing to me that even though we have come a long ways from DOS, we
    can use DOS programming to correct a Vista shortcoming.

    Maynard Bertolet
     
    Bertolet, Aug 29, 2007
    #9
  10. Hi Andrew,
    I'm just experiencing the same problem, but your solution (that seems so
    logic) doesn't seem to work. Strange thing is that, if I copy AUTOEXEC.NT and
    CONFIG.NT from C:\Windows\System32 to the directory of installation of my
    16-bit old DOS program, modify them as you suggested, and specify them as
    starting files in the PIF properties, my program works fine as regards
    keyboard layout ...

    But what starts malfunctioning is DOS2USB tool, that seems no more trapping
    LPT1 output generated from my old 16-bit DOS program.
    Note that, in the way you suggested, DOS2USB worked fine ...

    I'm quite puzzled from this Vista behaviour. Do you have any hints?
    Many thanks,
    Enrico
     
    Enrico Polacco, Nov 12, 2007
    #10
  11. Buongioro Enrico
    Yes, that is strange.

    Configuring the DOS keyboard settings in CONFIG.NT and AUTOEXEC.NT certainly
    works for many other users. It has worked for Danish, Dutch, Turkish, and a
    few other languages as well ... I'm pretty sure Italian should work too! :)

    Anyway if you have a workaround, that's good ...
    Well, I don't know anything about DOS2USB, I've never used it or heard of it
    before. It looks like a third-party utility. In many (most?) cases, you can
    print from a 16 bit DOS application to *any* Windows printer, by mapping an
    LPT port. For example, I have USB-attached printer called "MP530" (it's a
    Cannon MP530). To make this printer visible to my 16-bit DOS apps, I run the
    command:

    C:\>NET USE LPT1: \\MyPCName\MP530

    After this command completes, any application that prints to LPT1:, will
    have its output redirected by the Windows Spooler to the USB-attached
    printer MP530. There's no need to use or pay for any add-on utlities.

    As with many things in DOS, there are several different ways a programmer
    can make their application print. The "correct way" in DOS to print to an
    LPT port is to use an OUT instruction to the Port at 0x378 (for LPT1). But
    there isn't really a well-defined API in DOS for printing; the programmer
    can control each of the 8 data pins one-by-one, in their code. So any given
    DOS program might try to print to LPT1 in a non-standard manner, which
    Windows or other software cannot recognise.

    To test whether Printer redirection is working for DOS applications, try
    printing from a "standard" DOS application like EDIT.COM. If printing works
    okay from EDIT.COM, but your application fails to print okay, then the
    application is probably using some non-standard technique to print. This
    worked fine on a real, physical PC running MS-DOS; but it may not work in
    the virtualized world of the NTVDM.

    Let us know how you get on.

    A piu tarde :)
     
    Andrew McLaren, Nov 13, 2007
    #11
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