Can I use the Host Vista Ultimate license for a Virtual Vista Mach

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Installation' started by theshepherds, Mar 24, 2007.

  1. theshepherds

    theshepherds Guest

    I have a legit copy of Vista Ultimate and I wish to create a test Vista
    Ultimate environment/machine/instance using Virtual PC 2007 on the same
    machine that I have Vista Installed. Can I reuse the host license key for the
    Virtual machine or will it invalidate the host license ? There seems to be
    many conflicting reports on the web and I wish to remain legal.

    Many thanks.
     
    theshepherds, Mar 24, 2007
    #1
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  2. You could always just not use the key and run it unactivated in the virtual
    machine, test it that way for up to a year (there is a way to do it
    legally).

    But, it is still one license per install, this includes virtual machines.
     
    Dustin Harper, Mar 24, 2007
    #2
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  3. theshepherds

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi,

    A virtual instance requires its own license. If you set it up and don't
    activate it (best to just install without the product key), you'll be able
    to use it as a test environment for 30 days.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
     
    Rick Rogers, Mar 25, 2007
    #3
  4. theshepherds

    BobS Guest

    Rick,

    The Vista Ultimate EULA states in part under Additional License Terms, paragraph 6 ...:

    "USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft rights management services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or using applications protected by other digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other rights management services or using full volume disk drive encryption."

    Please not it states " software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device" It does not require it's own license.

    Not to hassle any MVP's - certainly not my intention but I would expect the MVP's here to have a better understanding of the EULA's than what I've been reading lately. And when they're corrected, the MVP's don't even acknowledge they were in error - or point out with facts that someone else was in error.

    Bob S.
     
    BobS, Mar 25, 2007
    #4
  5. theshepherds

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi Bob,

    You're misinterpreting that phrase. Actually, much earlier in the license is
    this "You may install one copy of the software on the licensed device" under
    installation rights. Regardless if emulated or real, you can only use the
    license for one installation.

    Looking at the paste you posted, it states that you can use your license in
    a virtual environment (some versions, like Basic and Home Premium, cannot be
    used in this fashion). The purpose of that section of the license is to
    acknowledge that the license can be used in that environment. Nowhere does
    it state that you can use your license to install to both the host and the
    virtual environment simultaneously.

    I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong, and if you check around you'll see
    that I do. In this case, having spoken directly with the licensing team
    manager just over a week ago, I'm quite confident that I am accurate here.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

    Rick,

    The Vista Ultimate EULA states in part under Additional License Terms,
    paragraph 6 ...:

    "USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may use the software installed on
    the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system
    on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access content or
    use applications protected by any Microsoft digital, information or
    enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft rights management
    services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or
    using applications protected by other digital, information or enterprise
    rights management technology or other rights management services or using
    full volume disk drive encryption."

    Please not it states " software installed on the licensed device within a
    virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device" It
    does not require it's own license.

    Not to hassle any MVP's - certainly not my intention but I would expect the
    MVP's here to have a better understanding of the EULA's than what I've been
    reading lately. And when they're corrected, the MVP's don't even
    acknowledge they were in error - or point out with facts that someone else
    was in error.

    Bob S.
     
    Rick Rogers, Mar 25, 2007
    #5
  6. theshepherds

    BobS Guest

    Rick,

    I do not believe I am misinterpreting and the exact language used states the same software (OS) can be used with virtual technologies. Please read below.

    The EULA states:

    "Before you use the software under a license, you must assign that license to one device (physical hardware system). That device is the "licensed device.â€

    So we have a one physical PC with one license assigned to it....
    It further states terms which expand the users license rights:

    "Edition Specific Rights. See the Additional License Terms sections at the end of this agreement for license terms that apply to specific editions of the software."

    Additional licensing terms are assigned to Vista Ultimate beyond the main license terms - with one being:

    USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft rights management services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or using applications protected by other digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other rights management services or using full volume disk drive encryption

    Please note that the above paragraph states "You may use the software installed {Vista is software} on the licensed device within...."

    It explicitly allows the same software to be used within a virtual environment on that physical device and does not state or even imply a second license is required.

    Why else would they state it this way? If they wanted to insure that use of Vista in a virtual environment required another license, they could have stated "Use of Vista in a virtual environment requires a separate license." Or words to that effect - they do not.

    So if I'm wrong, then please have the license guru's tell us which words explicitly require the virtual Vista OS installation to have a separate license.

    Their words (not mine) allow this use without another license required.



    Bob S.
     
    BobS, Mar 26, 2007
    #6
  7. theshepherds

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi Bob,

    I am thinking this line is what is confusing: " You may use the software
    installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated)
    hardware system on the licensed device". It seems to imply that you have the
    right to install it to a virtual machine that exists on the system that is
    running Vista, but that is not correct.

    That line does not mean you can install it in a virtual environment in
    addition to the physical one. It means you can install it to a virtual
    environment that exists in the system that contains the licensed device.
    "Licensed device" does not mean the installation, but rather the hardware.
    The license for Ultimate allow for only one installation to a licensed
    device. That install can be to the system containing the device, or to a
    virtual environment that exists on the system containing that device, not to
    both.

    I'm not sure I can explain it any better.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

    Rick,

    I do not believe I am misinterpreting and the exact language used states the
    same software (OS) can be used with virtual technologies. Please read below.

    The EULA states:

    "Before you use the software under a license, you must assign that license
    to one device (physical hardware system). That device is the "licensed
    device.â€

    So we have a one physical PC with one license assigned to it....
    It further states terms which expand the users license rights:

    "Edition Specific Rights. See the Additional License Terms sections at the
    end of this agreement for license terms that apply to specific editions of
    the software."

    Additional licensing terms are assigned to Vista Ultimate beyond the main
    license terms - with one being:

    USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may use the software installed on
    the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system
    on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access content or
    use applications protected by any Microsoft digital, information or
    enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft rights management
    services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or
    using applications protected by other digital, information or enterprise
    rights management technology or other rights management services or using
    full volume disk drive encryption

    Please note that the above paragraph states "You may use the software
    installed {Vista is software} on the licensed device within...."

    It explicitly allows the same software to be used within a virtual
    environment on that physical device and does not state or even imply a
    second license is required.

    Why else would they state it this way? If they wanted to insure that use of
    Vista in a virtual environment required another license, they could have
    stated "Use of Vista in a virtual environment requires a separate license."
    Or words to that effect - they do not.

    So if I'm wrong, then please have the license guru's tell us which words
    explicitly require the virtual Vista OS installation to have a separate
    license.

    Their words (not mine) allow this use without another license required.



    Bob S.
     
    Rick Rogers, Mar 26, 2007
    #7
  8. theshepherds

    BobS Guest

    Rick,

    Exactly the words and they are not confusing at Ed Bott points out when you
    compare the licensing for WinXP and how it was changed for Vista (version
    specific).

    Thanks for your responses but I think that anyone wishing to use the
    versions allowed by the EULA in a virtual environment will not be in
    violation. Read what Ed Bott and others reported on this exact issue.

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=157

    Bob S.
     
    BobS, Mar 26, 2007
    #8
  9. theshepherds

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi Bob,

    I'm sorry, but Ed's wrong. He is doing the same thing and misinterpreting
    that line as permission to create two installations. It isn't, it merely
    means that you can install your retail license in a virtual machine. It
    doesn't mean in addition to the physical one. It means either/or.

    As to Home Basic and Home Premium, they can be run in a virtual environment
    with an MSDN license, but not a retail. This was done to allow software
    developers a means of testing their applications on these versions within a
    virtual environment.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
     
    Rick Rogers, Mar 26, 2007
    #9
  10. theshepherds

    BobS Guest

    Rick,

    But it doesn't say either/or, it states explicitly - "You may use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device." No misinterpretation, no opinion - this sentence say's it exactly. It's a stand-alone statement and only makes a reference to earlier wording which defines a licensed device.

    I understand your meaning but there are no words in the EULA to enforce that interpretation. It is giving permission by stating "You may use the software installed..."

    Look at the rest of the wording.

    "If you do so, you may not play or access content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft rights management services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or using applications protected by other digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other rights management services or using full volume disk drive encryption."

    If the VM copy of Vista did have it's own license - then why could you not use DRM?

    So if I can use program "A", "B" and "C" that is installed on the licensed device, than I can also use the same Vista license in the VM also. It is not excluded anywhere in the EULA and no wording states we need a separate license as you do for WinXP. That is exactly was what Ed Bott was pointing out - the wording has changed - to allow this. Otherwise - they would have left the wording the same.

    Maybe you can contact the licensing guru's again and ask them to furnish the reference where it's stated we cannot use the same OS license on the host and VM - I certainly can't find it. It is confusing and if what "MS meant to say" is not explicity stated in a contract, then it's not enforceable. I and others are not twisting words - I'm reading the words exactly and not inferring anything such as "they meant to say" or "this must mean".

    But then again, more Scotch may clear this whole thing up.....

    Bob S.
     
    BobS, Mar 26, 2007
    #10
  11. theshepherds

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi Bob,

    I have an email out to get some clarification on this, will let you know.

    By the by, I prefer a good ale to scotch, but will happily imbibe on both.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

    Rick,

    But it doesn't say either/or, it states explicitly - "You may use the
    software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise
    emulated) hardware system on the licensed device." No misinterpretation, no
    opinion - this sentence say's it exactly. It's a stand-alone statement and
    only makes a reference to earlier wording which defines a licensed device.

    I understand your meaning but there are no words in the EULA to enforce that
    interpretation. It is giving permission by stating "You may use the
    software installed..."

    Look at the rest of the wording.

    "If you do so, you may not play or access content or use applications
    protected by any Microsoft digital, information or enterprise rights
    management technology or other Microsoft rights management services or use
    BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or using
    applications protected by other digital, information or enterprise rights
    management technology or other rights management services or using full
    volume disk drive encryption."

    If the VM copy of Vista did have it's own license - then why could you not
    use DRM?

    So if I can use program "A", "B" and "C" that is installed on the licensed
    device, than I can also use the same Vista license in the VM also. It is not
    excluded anywhere in the EULA and no wording states we need a separate
    license as you do for WinXP. That is exactly was what Ed Bott was pointing
    out - the wording has changed - to allow this. Otherwise - they would have
    left the wording the same.

    Maybe you can contact the licensing guru's again and ask them to furnish the
    reference where it's stated we cannot use the same OS license on the host
    and VM - I certainly can't find it. It is confusing and if what "MS meant
    to say" is not explicity stated in a contract, then it's not enforceable. I
    and others are not twisting words - I'm reading the words exactly and not
    inferring anything such as "they meant to say" or "this must mean".

    But then again, more Scotch may clear this whole thing up.....

    Bob S.
     
    Rick Rogers, Mar 27, 2007
    #11
  12. theshepherds

    BobS Guest

    Rick,

    Great ! When you get it - good, bad or indifferent, would you start a new
    thread with it - "Vista VM" or something like that? I think we're probably
    the only two watching this thread and VM is an important issue.

    I owe you an ale....or two...or three....

    Thanks for going the extra mile,

    Bob S.
     
    BobS, Mar 27, 2007
    #12
  13. theshepherds

    theshepherds Guest

    I believe you are quite incorrect in your interpretation...

    ""USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may use the software installed on
    the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system
    on the licensed device. "

    Cleary indicates/infers that the software can be installed on a licensed
    device (My vista host) and within a virtual environment on the same host.
    That clearly implies two installations. One hardware.

    Perhaps your contact within the licensing team can step forward and clarify.
     
    theshepherds, Mar 28, 2007
    #13
  14. theshepherds

    theshepherds Guest

    Just found this on the MS site

    6. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may use the software installed
    on the
    licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on
    the licensed device. If
    you do so, you may not play or access content or use applications protected
    by any Microsoft digital,
    information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft
    rights management
    services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or
    using applications
    protected by other digital, information or enterprise rights management
    technology or other rights
    management services or using full volume disk drive encryption.


    http://download.microsoft.com/docum...lish_36d0fe99-75e4-4875-8153-889cf5105718.pdf

    So I can, but there are no published ways of activating the Virtual copy
    without treading over the Host license in terms of hardware changes and
    re-activation.
     
    theshepherds, Mar 28, 2007
    #14
  15. theshepherds

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Read the rest of the discussion with BobS. That section does not mean you
    can install it *in addition* to the host license. It means that with this
    version of Vista you can install it to the licensed device or to a virtual
    machine that is on the licensed device. The key word here being "or". This
    section of the license is here because only certain versions can be
    installed to a virtual environment, not because they are licensed to install
    to both the host and the virtual machine.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
     
    Rick Rogers, Mar 28, 2007
    #15
  16. theshepherds

    BobS Guest

    Rich,

    Which - or - are you referring to? I see none used in the context that you
    state. Please post the sentence.

    Bob S.
     
    BobS, Mar 28, 2007
    #16
  17. theshepherds

    theshepherds Guest

    We can argue the toss about the semantics here... From your previous posts it
    appears that you have access to someone that can give an authorative answer.

    Do you think you can some up with a definite yes or no from an insider ?
    Perhaps invite that person to contribute to this thread. Obviously this
    issue is quite big and I would hate to breach any licensing agreement based
    on two differing interpretations from a clause that is equally ambiguous. You
    may not agree with the ambiguity here, to be frank I don['t agree with your
    interpretation so the issue really needs to be clarified legally from within
    Microsoft.

    Thanks for your continued involvement here.

    Regards

    Adrian
     
    theshepherds, Apr 1, 2007
    #17
  18. theshepherds

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi,

    I have not let the issue drop, but the person I need to clarify this with is
    currently away.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

     
    Rick Rogers, Apr 1, 2007
    #18
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