Can't see other computers/nodes on network!

Discussion in 'Server Networking' started by Knight Technologies, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. I can't see or find other computers on the network at all and I have File and
    Printer Sharing turned on?

    Also, I'm running Windows Server 2003 and don't see how to create a group
    network like with other Windows OS's, there is no "Create Home or Office
    Network" option, etc. I'm assuming that as this is Windows Server the
    computer name would be the workgroup correct?
     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 14, 2005
    #1
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  2. No. The workgroup name must be different from all computer names, all
    computers should by joined to the same workgroup, and all computer names
    must be unique. In Windows Server 2003 you can change the computer name and
    workgroup name in System Properties, Computer Name tab. No wizard is
    necessary.

    Doug Sherman
    MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
     
    Doug Sherman [MVP], Aug 14, 2005
    #2
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  3. Nope, nothing anywhere says Workgroup, it does in Windows XP though and I can
    create a workgroup using that on another machine, but I still can't see any
    machines on network aside from the machine names themselves alone.

    All the computers have a different name.

    How can I create a workgroup on Windows Server 2003 and/or have it see the
    other machines, since there is no wizard, there is no obvious "hello, click
    here to say I'm the main server, everyone else is a client."



    --
    Knight Technologies (http://knight-technologies.us)
    E4 Chat (http://e4chat.com)


     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 14, 2005
    #3
  4. "In Windows Server 2003 you can change the computer name and
    workgroup name in System Properties, Computer Name tab. No wizard is
    necessary."

    What happens when you click the Change button - or are you saying that you
    do not have a Computer name tab?

    Doug Sherman
    MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

     
    Doug Sherman [MVP], Aug 14, 2005
    #4
  5. Clicking Change button pops up a warning that says "To continue renaming this
    domain controller click OK."
     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 14, 2005
    #5
  6. Knight Technologies

    James Price Guest

    Let's take this from the top so we know what we're working with. Are you
    working in a Windows Domain (did one exits and you joined it or did your
    create one when you set up this server)?

    Run an IPCONFIG /all on your server and on a workstation your having
    problems with and let's see what the basic network settings are?

    If you open a command prompt Start->Run-> type "cmd" and press <OK> then you
    can run commands in that window.

    Which server in your network is your DNS server, is it the same one listed
    in the IPCONFIG /ALL?

    Do you have a valid IP address, if you have something like 169.n.n.n, then
    you aren't getting a valid IP address and we can start there.

    On the workstation can you ping the server by hostname and by IP address?

    On the server can you ping the workstation by hostname and by IP address?

    Can you browse the Internet from both the server and the workstation?
    Something like www.microsoft.com or www.google.com?


    --
    James E. Price III
    Fairway Consulting Group, Inc.
    O: 954-727-5126
    C: 305-970-4902
    E:
    W: www.fcgroup.us
     
    James Price, Aug 15, 2005
    #6
  7. Your Windows Server 2003 machine is an Active Directory domain controller
    and therefore, cannot be joined to a workgroup. If your clients are running
    XP Pro, they can join the domain. If your clients are XP Home, they cannot
    join the domain; however, they should be able to browse if you change their
    workgroup to the NetBIOS name of the Active Directory domain - eg. NetBIOS
    name of mydomain.com = mydomain.

    Doug Sherman
    MCSE, MCP+I, MVP
     
    Doug Sherman [MVP], Aug 15, 2005
    #7
  8. Let's take this from the top so we know what we're working with. Are you
    working in a Windows Domain (did one exits and you joined it or did your
    create one when you set up this server)?
    I created a domain controller when I setup the server.

    In system properties full computer name says: knight-tech.knight-tech2

    Domain says: KNIGHT-TECH2

    Run an IPCONFIG /all on your server and on a workstation your having
    problems with and let's see what the basic network settings are?

    MAIN SERVER:

    Windows IP Configuration

    Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : knight-tech
    Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : KNIGHT-TECH2
    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
    IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : KNIGHT-TECH2
    Unknown

    Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Unknown
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NVIDIA nForce MCP Networking Controller
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.100
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.10
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.10
    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 127.0.0.1
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:18:45 PM
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:18:45 PM

    CLIENT:
    Windows IP Configuration

    Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : knight-tech9
    Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
    IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : Unknown

    Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection 3:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Unknown
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200BG
    Network
    Connection
    Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.103
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.10
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.10
    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.10
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:30:44 PM
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:30:44 PM


    Which server in your network is your DNS server, is it the same one listed
    in the IPCONFIG /ALL?
    The MAIN SERVER.

    Modem: 192.168.0.1
    Router: 192.168.0.10

    Router handles DNS Resolving.

    Do you have a valid IP address, if you have something like 169.n.n.n, then
    you aren't getting a valid IP address and we can start there.
    All addresses seem valid, I'm running internet services, eg website, with no
    problems, all machines can connect to services on main server and/or hosted
    on clients.

    On the workstation can you ping the server by hostname and by IP address?
    Yes

    On the server can you ping the workstation by hostname and by IP address?
    Yes

    Can you browse the Internet from both the server and the workstation?
    Something like www.microsoft.com or www.google.com?
    Yes
     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 15, 2005
    #8
  9. Doug I'm not following you on that because this is the server, I'm not trying
    to have it join a workgroup I'm trying to have it host one.

    Most the time system requirements are off when displayed, for instance
    something that says minimum memory is 512 when it actually only requires 40 -
    128.

    The windows networking is supposed to work together fairly well, in the
    networking samples I've seen say you can connect win 98 on up machine to any
    windows workgroup so it should be fairly universal.

    The other machines are Windows Home, I actually get better performance,
    security, and convenience using Home when the service packs are installed,
    I've noticed it only takes me minutes to accomplish what is taking me days or
    weeks with Windows Server, I'm unhappy with Windows Server 2003 so far as I
    keep having to seek answers to configuration related problems, and it doesn't
    provide the kind of hardware/software support I'd expect it too.
     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 15, 2005
    #9
  10. Knight Technologies

    James Price Guest

    Ok, the first thing I see is that the server isn't using the same DNS server
    as the workstation, Server is using 127.0.0.1 and the workstation is using
    192.168.0.10. Now I'm guessing that the reason you can still browse the
    Internet on the server is that during the domain setup it setup DNS on the
    server itself and it's probably configured to forward to either 192.168.0.10
    or something on the Internet.


    Is the workstation a member of the same domain as the server (knight-tech2)?

    Do you have 2 NICs in the server by any chance, if not then no big deal?

    You can also probable ping and get some degree of name resolution b/c you're
    on a flat LAN meaning that everything on the 192.168.0.0/24 network can
    broadcast for NetBIOS and they will get a response b/c there isn't anything
    to stop them. Not a bad thing but not ideal either.

    In general terms the way this should work is that your server(s) provide
    pretty much all your network services except (switching, routing (unless your
    using ISA or RRAS)), so you want to configure DNS, DHCP (and WINS if you
    really need it, if you are AD and W2K or higher you shouldn't need WINS). So
    a client gets DHCP from the server and the DHCP info should include:

    1) Default GW
    2) DNS Server

    Now I like to include a few extras like domain name, primary DNS suffix and
    NTP; these are not required but often handy to have around. Additionally, I
    configure DHCP to register ALL clients with DNS regardless of whether or not
    they request it. This keeps my DNS Zones up to date and makes sure MMC for
    remote management work as expected. In order for this to work you also need
    to make sure you create a reverse lookup zone for your LAN, again not
    required but a good practice.

    So a client comes on the network it broadcasts for a DHCP server and your
    server answers, your clients all get consistent info from your windows server
    and that is the beginning of the conversation.

    After that you should be able to browse the Network Neighborhood or type a
    UNC path on a client and see the resource on the server.

    *****************************************************************
    If you are running any client side firewalls i.e. XPSP2 and Server SP1 you
    may need to make sure you are allowing File and Print Sharing. A lot of
    folks don't like the new MS client side FW, I do, you've got to do a little
    more work to get them configured correctly but if we'd been using them 3
    years ago we'd have saved a lot of time and more money than I can count from
    cleaning up from NIMBDA, Code Red, etc.

    That should get you working; if not we'll take a look at some other things.
    Unless you created any shares on the server you should see 3 by default:

    1) Netlogon
    2) Sysvol
    3) Scheduled Tasks

    Try creating a shared printer or share a directory and see if you can see
    that by browsing \\servername\

    --
    James E. Price III
    Fairway Consulting Group, Inc.
    O: 954-727-5126
    C: 305-970-4902
    E:
    W: www.fcgroup.us
     
    James Price, Aug 15, 2005
    #10
  11. Ok, the first thing I see is that the server isn't using the same DNS server
    as the workstation, Server is using 127.0.0.1 and the workstation is using
    192.168.0.10. Now I'm guessing that the reason you can still browse the
    Internet on the server is that during the domain setup it setup DNS on the
    server itself and it's probably configured to forward to either 192.168.0.10
    or something on the Internet.

    Yes, 192.168.0.10 which is the router, and the router forwards to the
    appropriate remote ISP DNS servers for proper resolve.

    Is the workstation a member of the same domain as the server (knight-tech2)?
    Not sure what you mean there.

    Do you have 2 NICs in the server by any chance, if not then no big deal?
    Just 1.

    You can also probable ping and get some degree of name resolution b/c you're
    on a flat LAN meaning that everything on the 192.168.0.0/24 network can
    broadcast for NetBIOS and they will get a response b/c there isn't anything
    to stop them. Not a bad thing but not ideal either.

    I understand that, I normally turn off any unused processes and features to
    improve security and performance unless while troubleshooting.

    In general terms the way this should work is that your server(s) provide
    pretty much all your network services except (switching, routing (unless your
    using ISA or RRAS)), so you want to configure DNS, DHCP (and WINS if you
    really need it, if you are AD and W2K or higher you shouldn't need WINS). So
    a client gets DHCP from the server and the DHCP info should include:

    1) Default GW
    2) DNS Server

    The DHCP and DNS is handled via the router which has DHCP server built-in,
    this is how the clients get their internal/LAN/private network IP address
    assignments. 192.168.0.100, 192.168.0.101, etc.

    Try creating a shared printer or share a directory and see if you can see
    that by browsing \\servername\

    This is exactly the problem I am trying to find solution for, I have folders
    shared and can see them on the main server, however, the clients/workstations
    cannot see the shares on the server, likewise the computers do not show up in
    network neighborhood.

    In other words, on server I see this:
    knight-tech
    knight-tech2
    X:\Shared Folder
    Y:\Shared Folder2
    Z:\Shared Folder3

    On client/workstation I see this:
    Mshome
     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 15, 2005
    #11
  12. Knight Technologies

    James Price Guest

    Ok, so when you are on a workstation and you go to \\knight-tech\ you don't
    see anything?

    or you should see:

    \\knight-tech\share1
    \\knight-tech\share2
    \\knight-tech\share3

    Now from the server if you type \\workstation_name\ you should see what ever
    shares you have created for example:

    \\workstation_name\Knight_memos
    \\workstation_name\Knight_Projects
    etc.

    I read some of your post to Doug and it seems like you are a little unclear
    on the difference between some of the products (Server, XP Pro, XP Home,
    etc). While for the most part the differences are not that much it's
    important to understand as each is designed for a type of use in mind.

    Server is designed as a platform for delivering services (www, FTP, File &
    Print, Streaming Media and SECURITY). I capitalized security b/c aside from
    performance tuning to provide services, providing an extensible security
    platform is the primary role of a server compared to a workstation with a
    file share.

    A quick note on the difference between a Domain vs. a Workgroup, in a domain
    all computers share a common security infrastructure (Active Directroy) where
    accounts (computer and user) are centralized and accessible on anywhere in
    the domain. In a workgroup, security accounts computer and users are only
    exist locally and security is managed on each computer, this is fine if you
    have 5 XP workstations in a workgroup, but problematic if you have 500 in an
    office building.

    Workstation (XP Pro & Home Ed.) is designed to be a rich multimedia and
    application environment with broad support for a variety of devices. Desktop
    applcation performance is at its peak here but network operations and
    background processes are not as efficient.

    The difference between XP Pro and XP Home, well I'm probably not the guy to
    best explain it but it is my understanding that it has more to do with
    licensing of "enterprise" feaures than anything. For instance XP Home Ed.
    does not include the integrated terminal services CAL the Pro includes, what
    else is different I couldn't really say.

    Now as to your seeing MSHOME in the Network Neighborhood that your XP
    workstation in a workgroup, so I think that answers my question as to whether
    its in a domain or not.
    --
    James E. Price III
    Fairway Consulting Group, Inc.
    O: 954-727-5126
    C: 305-970-4902
    E:
    W: www.fcgroup.us
     
    James Price, Aug 15, 2005
    #12
  13. After making some adjustments today I finally got it, thing is not sure
    exactly what I did, but I noticed if it you click Map Network Drive and the
    computers don't come in list, sometimes using Start/Search/Search for
    Computers works which leads me to believe there's a bug.

    After I search for the computer using search and the results come up, the
    computers show up in the Map Network Drive List.

    Forgot to mention, the OS I'm using is Windows Server 2003 R2.
     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 15, 2005
    #13
  14. Knight Technologies

    James Price Guest

    LOL...ok, well it this case that won't make a difference but anytime you are
    using any special or beta versions of a product or even for that matter if
    you have a feature pack like WSS of MIIS installed it's helpful to know b/c
    they may include enhanced features or have disabled other features.


    --
    James E. Price III
    Fairway Consulting Group, Inc.
    O: 954-727-5126
    C: 305-970-4902
    E:
    W: www.fcgroup.us
     
    James Price, Aug 15, 2005
    #14
  15. You have two mutually exclusive choices:

    1. Install Active Directory and create a domain. Evidently, this has
    already been done - probably with the Configure My Server wizard. Once you
    do this, the server is hosting and controlling a domain; it cannot
    thereafter be joined to a workgroup or even another domain unless you
    uninstall Active Directory. You can't join XP Home Edition to a domain.
    However, you may have two options to access the domain network resources. 1)
    Logon to the XP machine or map drives using a domain user name and password.
    2) create a workgroup to match the NetBIOS domain name and also use the
    domain user account to logon.

    2. Windows Server 2003 can join a workgroup provided Active Directory is
    not installed or you uninstall it. However, Windows Server 2003 supports
    only classic - not simple file sharing. So, you either create local user
    accounts matching the user names and passwords used to log onto the XP Home
    machines, or enable the guest account and allow it network access.

    You need to decide whether you want to keep this machine as a domain
    controller or uninstall Active Directory because the way XP Home machines
    interact with the server depend on how it is configured.

    Doug Sherman
    MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
     
    Doug Sherman [MVP], Aug 15, 2005
    #15
  16. The only difference with XP Pro and home is XP Pro offers some extra office
    application processes, I've developed and maintained webservers and numerous
    software for use with XP, and with my own personal experiences comparing the
    various operating systems top to bottom the only exception so far being
    Windows Vista. Most of the exploitable and well known programs which leave
    ports open on windows is targetted, so I try and do things differently and
    leave less holes open.

    For instance, when i look at server logs, most the time I view exploit
    attempts on Windows Server, 2000, Unix, and various microsft office products
    such as frontpage extensions, IIS, you name it. Why? Because it's common for
    businesses to include these technologies and the information that's given as
    standard for security is exactly what bad guys seem to target most.

    When everyone's talking about upgrading to XP Pro I cring a bit as I know
    there's really not that big a deal to it.

    I find myself using the same 3rd party utilities on Windows Server 2003 I
    did on home and have more control and less configuration issues. For example,
    if it took me a few minutes to get website up and running on XP, the security
    was simply turn off all exploitable processes and install any security
    patches, manually monitor process and network packet activity, use a good
    firewall, use 3rd party browser and secure, don't install questionable
    software, and don't navigate to questionable sites or open qustionable email,
    turn off Terminal Services, Remote Desktop, any built in windows application
    that's designed to give remote network capabilities seems to always be a
    target for exploit, vs. a custom developed app like NetworkLink .Net which
    little information would be known about.

    Windows Server 2003 is confusing really, most might not admit that, but I'm
    one to say it, you have to know what does what and the details of what steps
    need taken to accomplish things differently, even if you've been doing this
    for years.

    For simple website solution you could use something like KF Web Server,
    compare the simplicity, integration and configuration to that compared to the
    built-in functions, I don't mess with FTP at all that's pretty old protocol
    method for file transfer and you got more control creating a custom file
    sharing program.

    Guess what I'm really trying to say is Windows Server 2003 just doesn't cut
    it for me, nor did Pro, but future looks brighter with Vista, and for the
    next 10 years I think Bill Gates will bring us some new and exciting tools to
    make things much more easy to work with so we can simply focus on other
    things by making applications and devices more intelligent to begin with for
    a more structured workflow, less with configuration struggles and random
    errors, or unorganized information and the lack of getting information you
    need the most.

    The fact why I installed Windows Server 2003 was because I had too, not
    because I wanted too, it was not the preferred choice, it was because Windows
    Server 2003 was required to install Visual Studio 2005 Team Suite Foundation
    Server, and even that let me down like others as after weeks I couldn't get
    it installed, development since struggling with this OS has slowed everything
    down not sped up, if I went through the hassle of uninstalling it right now
    it'd set me back even more, but I know XP Home would have support for all my
    hardware and software more so than the OS installed now, especially with
    networking hardware, and it takes 5 - 10 minutes to startup during restart,
    XP home was only a few seconds to a minute big difference when things are
    time critical.

    More and more people are using laptops so portable compact solutions are
    also important, until now I hosted every service and handled every
    development task, weither audio editing, graphics editing, video editing,
    software development, site development, or other tasks on 1 machine, not
    multiple, I'm just now branching for convenience and portability and other
    than the new headaches of Server OS configuration, it's getting to be fun.
     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 15, 2005
    #16
  17. Yeah, sometimes I felt like sending this back to them, last time I felt that
    way was with Windows 98, I spend almost 24/7 behind computer screen have been
    for years so I check stuff out as much as possible, you never stop learning
    and this is actually new to me, it's like making everything 1 big hardrive
    and using user authentication and folder share on/off switches to keep
    networks components seperated from being able to communicate with eachother.

    And here I was doing it the hardway thinkin I'd need to make my own
    application to browse files and folders and connect the network or continue
    using webservers on each client.

    Thanks for all your help I really appreciate it, I'm suprised though you
    don't have MVP next to your name because you seem to know what you're talkin
    about, atleast the info. got me going in right direction, later.
     
    Knight Technologies, Aug 15, 2005
    #17
  18. Knight Technologies

    James Price Guest

    No problem, I glad I was able to help.

    ~jp
    --
    James E. Price III
    Fairway Consulting Group, Inc.
    O: 954-727-5126
    C: 305-970-4902
    E:
    W: www.fcgroup.us
     
    James Price, Aug 17, 2005
    #18
  19. Knight Technologies

    orrick49 Guest

    I've recently updated to IE 7 and the same thing happened to my home network
    of three computers, they disappeared. The printer sharing disappeared off the
    computers without the printer connected. I tried all the tweeks, finally
    removed the network, created a new nerwork disc, reinstalled on all three
    computers, gave permission to share etc. tweeked the Norton Internet Security
    so it wouldn't think it was some sort of invasion, and it works like it did
    before. I had a new Nvidia driver update, Norton update, and MSN update all
    corresponding with the IE 7 upgrade. Ouch!! Now my e-mail has problems with
    shuting off/freezing sending an error message. I just love those new
    upgrades...bring on VISTA.....not
     
    orrick49, Nov 27, 2006
    #19
  20. In ( OREGON RICK)
    Upgrading to IE7 or updating a video driver won't create a network problem,
    other than possibly tighter security in the browser.

    If you stop all Norton services for about 45 minutes, does your browse list
    populate?

    This sounds like SBS, since you mentioned creating a new network install
    disc. SBS has a preconfigured firewall GPO, but since you said it was
    working, and nothing was changed to SBS, I would assume it doesn't have
    anything to do with that.

    MSN update too? Doesn't that have some sort of protection feature? I haven't
    used MSN, so I'm not sure about that.


    --
    Ace
    Innovative IT Concepts, Inc (IITCI)
    Willow Grove, PA

    This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
    confers no rights.

    Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCSE+I, MCT, MVP
    Microsoft MVP - Directory Services
    Microsoft Certified Trainer

    Having difficulty reading or finding responses to your post?
    Instead of the website you're using, I suggest to use OEx (Outlook Express
    or any other newsreader), and configure a news account, pointing to
    news.microsoft.com. This is a direct link to the Microsoft Public
    Newsgroups. It is FREE and requires NO ISP's Usenet account. OEx allows you
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    It's easy:

    How to Configure OEx for Internet News
    http://support.microsoft.com/?id=171164

    Infinite Diversities in Infinite Combinations
    Assimilation Imminent. Resistance is Futile
    "Very funny Scotty. Now, beam down my clothes."

    The only constant in life is change...
     
    Ace Fekay [MVP], Nov 28, 2006
    #20
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