FIX for ZoneAlarm & KB951748 issue released

Discussion in 'Windows Update' started by PA Bear [MS MVP], Jul 10, 2008.

  1. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    H.S. Guest

    Using a computer with admin rights by an average Joe user is, well, not
    a smart thing to do (being very polite here).

    If an OS demands that its users run as admins all the time, the OS is
    poorly designed.
     
    H.S., Jul 16, 2008
    #81
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  2. If you do not have the Microsoft patch (KB951748 ) installed nor do you have
    Zone Alarm installed and you still cannot connect to the Internet - your
    problem is certainly different and probably unrelated other than by
    coincidental timing...?
     
    Shenan Stanley, Jul 16, 2008
    #82
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  3. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    ANONYMOUS Guest

    Get rid of ZoneAlarm completely because you don't need it for two reasons:

    1) MS has already given you a free software based FIREWALL;

    2) If you are using a broadband to connect to the net, then you must be
    using a modem or a router which already has its own, harware based,
    FIREWALL;

    Now you don't need another firewall for the sake of it being given away
    for free. There is no such thing as free lunch. What they have given
    you is a software that is not capable of cohabiting with MS OS. You
    have to decide whether you want to use another OS which works with
    ZONEALARM or you simply stay with MS OS. The choice is yours.

    Hope this helps.
     
    ANONYMOUS, Jul 16, 2008
    #83
  4. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    Ron Badour Guest

    Hi Charlie,

    It appears there may be varying degrees of the connection problem since some
    people (me included) could get internet access merely by changing the
    settings on ZA and thus could download the fix which totally cured the
    problem.

    --
    Regards

    Ron Badour
    MS MVP
    Windows Desktop Experience


     
    Ron Badour, Jul 16, 2008
    #84
  5. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    Stinger Guest

    No offense PA Bear, but that's a pretty arrogate attitude if that 3rd party
    application is reviewed by the IT industry time and time again as a much
    better product than Windows version of a firewall.

    Meanwhile users of the Windows operating system suffer because of a decision
    made by Microsoft to make this a update. Anyone else think they (MS) knew
    this was going to happen besides myself?

    Meanwhile, I sure do have a lot of new work on computers these days thanks
    to this little gem.
     
    Stinger, Jul 16, 2008
    #85
  6. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    CharlieG Guest

    I think you are right. I have been able to disable ZoneAlarm on two
    machines and when I uninstalled 748 internet connection was restored. But on
    a third machine I don't have 748 installed, but I do have 749 and even
    UNINSTALLING ZoneAlarm I am still not able to get internet reestablished.
    There were 5 MS updates installed at the same time on this machine:

    0749, 1698, 823-v3, 760 1376-v2, and 0762 Should I uninstall ALL of those?
    If I should try one at a time what is the order of the ones to be removed?

    In response to another post here if two computers go out at the same time it
    might be coincidence, but if both of those have a software problem and both
    have the same software installed that is creating the problem ..........


    Thanks

     
    CharlieG, Jul 16, 2008
    #86
  7. However - you inferred only a single machine in your original posting. You
    made no explicit mention of multiple machines in your case. I pretty much
    would ignore coincidence if two computers get the same changes and both have
    the same problem. Especially if I can test a third system without the
    changes and everything is fine.

    Yes - general troubleshooting always seem to start the same way...

    1) List things that changed between 'things working as expected' and 'things
    not working as expected'.
    2) Remove the changes and revert to pre-change state.

    ** If the problem disappears - continue this line of troubleshooting...
    ** If the problem does not disappear - either you missed a change or the
    removal did not complete OR the problem is unrelated to the changes.

    3) Perform the changes you just undid one at a time - checking for the
    problem you are trying to resolve after each trial. (In the case of a
    computer - reboot a couple of times to ensure the change is complete.)
    * Do not rush into it - perform ONE change at a time and reboot - be
    consistent and diligent.
     
    Shenan Stanley, Jul 16, 2008
    #87

  8. You can fix that easily in any of three ways:

    1. Lower the settings in ZA temporarily (not a great idea, in my view,
    but it works. I prefer the other choices)

    2. Turn off ZA temporarily (long enough to download the new version)
    and use the Windows firewall instead.

    3. Download the new version of ZA on a friend's computer and bring it
    to yours on a CD.


     
    Ken Blake, MVP, Jul 16, 2008
    #88
  9. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    CharlieG Guest

    I see how you could reach that assumption. I was afraid that this would be
    the answer.

    Another poster seems concerned about me turning off ZoneAlarm. But on this
    FINAL machine with problems I uninstalled ZoneAlarm completely so that is NOT
    a consideration.
     
    CharlieG, Jul 16, 2008
    #89
  10. So Zone Alarm is *uninstalled* and all the patches released/installed this
    month are uninstalled on this Windows XP (Professional, Home, Media Center,
    Tablet PC or x64?) with Service Pack (2 or 3?) machine and you are not
    getting any network traffic?

    Tried...?

    Start button --> RUN --> type in...

    CMD /K NETSH FIREWALL RESET

    --> Click on OK.

    Also...

    Start button --> RUN --> type in...

    NETSH DIAG GUI

    --> Click on OK. --> Scan your system.

    You may also want to uninstall your network card hardware device driver and
    reboot (allowing it to reinstall.)
     
    Shenan Stanley, Jul 16, 2008
    #90
  11. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    Root Kit Guest

    Indeed. Windows doesn't demand that. Anyway, due to the installation
    defaults prior to Vista, many *programs* are badly designed - assuming
    the user has admin rights.
     
    Root Kit, Jul 17, 2008
    #91
  12. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    Kayman Guest

    You're very poorly informed. Can't you read threads in its entirety or do
    you have a problem relating to comprehension abilities? It seems you're
    just another pisser.
     
    Kayman, Jul 17, 2008
    #92
  13. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    Kayman Guest

    For a complete removal try this:
    http://zonealarm.donhoover.net/uninstall.html
     
    Kayman, Jul 17, 2008
    #93
  14. Apples & oranges. It's common knowledge that the Windows Firewall (in
    WinXP) is a one-way (incoming) firewall.

    Does the average SOHO user need an outgoing firewall? Maybe, maybe not.

    But since you brought up reviews of "better products," take a look at
    http://www.matousec.com/projects/firewall-challenge/results.php. Your
    opinion of ZA may not be the same after you do so.
     
    PA Bear [MS MVP], Jul 17, 2008
    #94
  15. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    Stinger Guest

    Interesting reply!

    Admitting a 3rd party firewall actually does more than Windows version, but
    in the same breath implying it's overkill. That's akin to saying Windows
    built a sufficient firewall and anything that doesn't do exactly the same
    thing as it (being the industry leader it likes to hangs it hat on) you
    simply dismiss as irrelevant.

    Again, quite an arrogant stance. Perhaps there's a good reason why quite a
    few of these thrid party firewalls have that added outgoing feature.
    Perhaps they are taking the inductry lead by going above and beyond what
    Microsoft deems as sufficient. Perhaps Microsoft in it's drive to actually
    be THE inductry leader should design both an incoming and outgoing firewall
    so the general public that uses it's product is better served?

    BTW Kayman, I read all threads before wasting my bandwidth on a reply. In
    fact I do quite a bit more than just read THIS forum for research before as
    well. Suggest you do the same. PA Bear, if providing a link is supposed to
    hammer home a point, do I really need to post other links that contradict
    yours to make my point? There are plenty others available than the same one
    you've been providing in this and other threads.

    Bottom line, this update is important since it was a gapping hole in Windows
    for quite some time. Great that Windows decided to do something about it.
    Bad it renders tried and true helper 3rd party software that has been used
    for years by the general public trying its best to close that huge hole in
    Windows (with what is considered "overkill) and at the same time consumers
    are unable to even get on the internet without a single word of caution from
    the makers of the operating system. Ironically, they left it up to the geeks
    of the world to figure it out. Nice from a company that assumes it's the
    industry leader.
     
    Stinger, Jul 17, 2008
    #95
  16. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    Kerry Brown Guest

    Bottom line, this update is important since
    it was a gapping hole in Windows

    You should do a bit of research before you post. The gaping hole was in the
    way DNS worked. It was not Windows specific. Almost every OS was affected.
    In fact almost everything that interacted with DNS in any way was affected.

    http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11526

    Take a look at some of the affected products.

    http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/800113

    We can debate the effectiveness of software firewalls all day. I don't think
    at the end of the debate either of us would change their mind. You think
    they're great. I think they're mostly hype and snake oil. There is no
    debating the fact that this flaw in the DNS system needed to be patched and
    it needed to be patched immediately. This has nothing to do with Windows.
    The flaw was in the way DNS worked. The fact that your 3rd party application
    couldn't deal with the fact that an OS update changed some system files says
    a lot about how well it's programmed. It wasn't any changes in the files
    that broke your software. It was just the fact that the files changed that
    broke it. If an application can't deal with the fact that an OS may update
    itself it's not an application I would want on my computer.
     
    Kerry Brown, Jul 17, 2008
    #96
  17. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    Kayman Guest

    On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 04:09:00 -0700, Stinger wrote:

    Where did my post did not match up with your research? Gimme a hint,
    please!
    http://tech.blorge.com/Structure: /2008/07/11/skepticism-relieved-with-dns-bu
     
    Kayman, Jul 17, 2008
    #97
  18. What Kerry said.
     
    PA Bear [MS MVP], Jul 17, 2008
    #98
  19. Start a free Windows Update support incident request:
    https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?gprid=6527

    Support for Windows Update:
    http://support.microsoft.com/gp/wusupport

    For home users, no-charge support is available by calling 1-866-PCSAFETY in
    the United States and in Canada or by contacting your local Microsoft
    subsidiary. There is no-charge for support calls that are associated with
    security updates. When you call, clearly state that your problem is related
    to a Security Update and cite the update's KB number (e.g., KB951748).

    For enterprise customers, support for security updates is available through
    your usual support contacts.
    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)
    AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.net
    <snip>
     
    PA Bear [MS MVP], Jul 17, 2008
    #99
  20. Hi,

    Well, as you know, it came stupidly by someone "from outside" sending an
    infected e-mail before our university firewall had been updated to catch it.
    I agree that this was a fault, but history is full of fortresses that should
    never had been caught but eventually were, sometimes by very simple tricks.
    So, prtection from otside is good, but what do you do when the ennemy is
    inside ...
    I'ma not sure about that. You can, of course, also make a lot of non-sense
    with many programs including ZA, but I did not see too much problems here if
    you are a bit careful. Conversely, the WinXP SP2 firewall is not so easy to
    master... (mainly because MS likes, as in many other cases, uses names
    different from what other people use to design well known porcessse, which is
    a wel known marketing trick, but this is another isssue with MS).
    See my comment above. For sure, the helmet is not the best thing, and this
    is why policemen also have rifles (which I do not like, but ...).
    Can you be more specific in this. How much more resources are really needed
    to set up outbound protection in addition to inbound. What is the payload in
    terms of CPU and memory usage ? To be clear, I do not see much difference
    during operation between computers with and without ZA. The difference is
    defiitely in the booting time, but once this is over, no real difference at
    least for me.

    Again, not usre about that. If we were to follow you, the only solution is
    to stop using Windows at all and moving to Linux or Apple... The problem
    with Windows is that its design was indeed quite open (which eventually
    explains its success) but also a bit irresponsible...
     
    Paul (Bornival), Jul 17, 2008
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