General question about this NG

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by meg99az, Mar 30, 2007.

  1. meg99az

    meg99az Guest

    I have my first new machine with Vista and Office 2007.
    They are usability disasters as far as I am concerned.
    It seeems as though an awful lot of development effort went into bells and
    whistles, most of it form over substance, while dismantling many of the most
    important usability and productivity features.

    I know that new OSes and interfaces need time to sink in, but these new
    programs aren't just new - they are legitimately worse - dysfunctional for
    genuine productivity, a return to the stone ages. Seems like that on the
    next major OS release, we will be back to swapping floppies or using
    cassette recorders to load the OS.

    I hate to complain without offering up thoughtful details and suggestions.
    But before I do, my question is this:

    Does anyone from MS read these NG's or take them seriously? Does this all
    fall on deaf ears and arrogant disregard for customers, or is there someone
    at MS who takes this all seriously? If not, where else does one go to
    register thoughtful feedback?

    If someone is listening, I just might be a regular participant here.

    ---------------------

    Here's something to chew on:

    Remember back when - circa 1985 or thereabouts? IBM and MS were developing
    a radical new GUI OS: OS/2. And, IBM had come out with its next generation
    of PCs with a new incompatible bus architecture ("MCA" as I recall). In one
    fell swoop, IBM ticked off its entire customer base, by creating a new
    generation of machines that would force corporations to trash their entire
    old investments and retrain their entire staffs. MS took care of its
    customers, promising slow steady changes and backward compatibility, and the
    Wintel system won by a landslide, and the mighty IBM was out. Now, with MS
    concerned by Google and Linux and Apple nipping at its heels in various
    ways, the Vista / Office 2007 debut reminds me of the IBM - MCA - OS/2
    debacle. MS has never been a warm fuzzy patron of its customers, but this
    just seems to be total disregard for how millions of people world wide use
    and depend on their products. Unless Vista Service Packs fix the bugs, the
    profound lack of customization options, and the Windows Explorer and Office
    toolbars disasters, I will keep using XP for quite a long time. This might
    be just the incentive that someone needs to develop a more robust Linux that
    can support MS apps, because the sense I get is that enough people are
    sufficiently upset to be wishing for a good alternative.

    - meg -
     
    meg99az, Mar 30, 2007
    #1
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  2. Unless Vista Service Packs fix the bugs, the
    Well, of course we can expect the service packs to fix the bugs. I'm not
    sure how this contributes to the main thrust of your argument.

    As for me (and pretty well every magazine reviewer I've read) I think Office
    2007 is a big improvement on Office 2003 in terms of its user interface (the
    overall functionality is much the same). I think the Vista interface is
    much better than XP (with it appalling colour schemes, patronising and
    childish sound schemes, the dreadful 'My' in front of everything, etc).

    Both Office and Vista user interfaces had *extensive* tuning and tweaking in
    the useability labs as well as during the betas. Microsoft almost certainly
    does more useability testing than any other software supplier. That is why
    I'm pretty certain you won't persuade them to change.

    I'm sure I won't change your mind, but your reaction does sound like you are
    simply resisting any kind of change. Unfortunately I don't know how you can
    give feedback to Microsoft, but I don't think you'll have much chance of
    diverting them now.

    It does sound, though, like OpenOffice would be well worth looking at for
    people like yourself.

    Steve
     
    Steve Thackery, Mar 30, 2007
    #2
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  3. meg99az

    Mick Guest

    the XP market had just about reached saturation point as far as microsoft and
    the computer manufacturers thought to themselves. Dell's turnover had dropped
    to $60 billion for the year, so they brought mick dell back to improve
    things, lol.
    The bottom line is Microsoft developed a new OS to generate more money,
    ESPECIALLY THROUGH GAMES, and the computer manufacturers are rubbing their
    hands together as microsoft made 90% of the world's computers incapaple of
    running Vista(except for the basic version), unless the hardware is heavily
    modified and updated.
    IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY MEG

    Mick in Australia
     
    Mick, Mar 30, 2007
    #3
  4. meg99az

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi Meg,

    The point of these newsgroups is peer support. Help here comes from other
    users, not Microsoft. Microsoft merely supplies the means for this support.
    While some Microsoft personnel occasional read and respond to posts, that is
    not the norm, nor should anyone rely on it. If thier help is desired, one
    should use the offical support lines. Suggestions, complaints, and things of
    that nature have other channels here:
    http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/Facts.aspx?displaylang=en

    If you want to learn from others, or have tips, tricks, techniques, or
    knowledge and a willingness to help others, I would encourage you to hang
    out and participate. No one is an expert at everything, but virtually
    everyone knows something they can share to help others.

    --
    Best of Luck,

    Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
    Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

     
    Rick Rogers, Mar 30, 2007
    #4
  5. meg99az

    Guest Guest

    They run stats packages over it. Product managers monitor it as well. Betcha
    you wish you had Word 2000. The last one that mostly worked. In a company
    the size of MS the only feedback they can rely on is stats.

    Aren't you looking forward to office 2007 - if you become an expert on it
    you won't be able to use any other program. Macs provided a consistant user
    interface. Mac users used many more programs than Dos users (take me. I used
    a word processor that I also used as a spreadsheet and database, but it was
    a word processor not a database or spreadsheet so it did database and
    spreadsheets poorly - but I didn't have to spend 10000 hours learning to be
    an expert in Lotus 123 and DBase III).
     
    Guest, Mar 30, 2007
    #5
  6. meg99az

    Mark Guest

    I've encountered three types of viewers in this set of newsgroups:

    General public, most of which have little or no concern for how they treat
    others, with the rare individual who attempts to rise above the fray and
    actually help. This group of people seldom distinguish their problems to the
    rightful owners, choosing instead to blame any and all.

    MVPs, a slight improvement over the general public, they volunteer their
    help and seem to have more experience at finding what is already out there
    regarding your problems and rarely offer anything beyond that knowing that
    their suggestions rarely fit all cases. Like the general public, this group
    quickly becomes base if confronted.

    Microsoft. Yep, they are there and I've only encountered two of them, but
    they remain quiet until the problem you have is definitely known to reside
    within the Microsoft code. At this point, those individuals go all out to
    contact you and work with you to determine and fix an actual bug. They value
    their job, just as you, and retain their opinions of you to themselves while
    fixing your problem.

    So, does anyone who can make an actual change to the product hear what is
    said in these newsgroups? Yes.
    Where do I fit... General Public. I've attacked others needlessly and
    attempted to help. But, when I encountered actual MS employees who went out
    of their way to help and found them to value their work, as I do mine, I
    suddenly felt chagrined over some of my prior posts. I'm here to help, if I
    can. Flame away, if necessary... I'll just wait in the wings until I'm able
    to help.



     
    Mark, Mar 30, 2007
    #6
  7. meg99az

    Victor Guest

    Im not sure why, but most of the folk who support Vista talk about the
    improvement in color scheme and appearance.

    I rarely see pro Vista comments stating that it is easier for administrators
    to manage and troubleshoot, or that there are all types of new tools and
    features, or that they never feel alone when UAC is always there to pop up
    and ask them if they really really really want to do something. I am
    honestly impressed with how stable Office 07 seems to be but the drastic
    change in interface seems to have no real justification. The marketing tells
    how commands are now organized in logical groups and easy to find. The menu
    design was (for the most part) logical grouping, and dont let them fool you
    into thinking that no thought went into the design of 2000 or xp. They make
    it sound like they FINALLY studied how users use the software. I would love
    to see that study. As an experienced software trainer, I would expect they
    looked at how new users find commands in a program. The process is very
    different for a user finding a command for the first time versus using a
    command over and over with a combination of other commands in their daily
    workflow. The new interface can force experienced users to spend more time
    coordinating features and cost productivity. Change is not always bad but if
    it aint broke, dont fix it. We need to remember that the normal office
    worker does not share our high level of excitement at using a new computer
    program. They want to go to work, do their job, and go home to enjoy their
    lives. In My opinion, they shouldnt be forced to spend time learning new
    ways of doing their work just because MS decides they need to increase sales.
    Imagine how you would feel if you were forced to learn a new way of
    operating your car because Ford and GM decided to make old cars obsolete. Or
    what if MS released their next version to only work with Davorak keyboards
    and you had to learn a new way to type? Change is not always something that
    is needed. MS has really pushed it with these products and I think they are
    going to survive it, but it wouldnt suprise me if we see a feature over the
    next year that allows you to run a version of office with the old menu
    interface. Heck, you can still change the vista start menu to "classic"
    style.


    Oh ! happy Friday everyone!
     
    Victor, Mar 30, 2007
    #7
  8. meg99az

    Guest Guest

    I am very pleased with Vista and MS Office 2007.
    Sure they are different and you must take the time to learn them.
    Dont forget what a change XP was from previous OS's by MS.
    Personally almost all of the software I use benefits positively from Vista.
    Vista has really stepped up the performance of multi core cpu's
    and I see that benefit immediately. I would never switch back to XP, I am
    a Vista addict. I have noticed some issues with Vista and I am compiling
    a list. I remember all the issues I had with XP and legacy software, and
    this time around I am actually having less trouble with legacy software
    with Vista than I did with XP. I have Vista on two pc's here and they run
    an average of a week without a reboot or restart. They only get restarted
    because I am a creature of habit. I have experienced one crash with Vista
    and have never had the BSOD (blue screen of death). I would caution
    all uses to make sure you can find the drivers for your hardware before
    you even consider using Vista. I would highly and strongly recommend
    2 gigs of ram and a dual core cpu. Vista is intended to be used
    on newer hardware, just as XP was when it came out. My only real
    complaint concerns the hardware vendors, not releasing drivers
    in a timely manner. Vista beta was around for a LONG time before
    Vista was released, and in my opinion there is not much excuse
    for hardware vendors who were late or have not released Vista
    drivers for their products. Office 2007 rocks I would recommend
    it to anyone. You will have to take the time to learn it as the interface
    has completely changed. However, the interface is easier to use and
    more efficient once you become accomodated to it. I as all the others
    in this NG will provide help as I can.
    G



     
    Guest, Mar 30, 2007
    #8
  9. meg99az

    john Guest

    Well according to Bill Gates himself:

    "Since when has the world of computer software design been about what
    people want?"
    - Bill Gates

    "If you can't make it good, at least make it look good."
    - Bill Gates
     
    john, Mar 30, 2007
    #9
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