hardware problems or virus

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Performance' started by K8 notsogrand, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. I posted a question yesterday about my power supply. (Thanks for reponce)

    I'm wondering if I pick up a virus or spyware before the PSU died?
    Becouse my PC was acting strange 3 or 4 days before that.
    Like;
    would not burn dvd,
    internet slowed down, infact all programs slow to boot up,
    vista would not restart.( had to shut the computer right off)
    memery use went from 45-65% to 70-95% With only one program running
    vista would boot up then the screen would go black for few seconds. or would
    not come on at all.

    I ran Norton antivirus and system Mechanic 7 and found nothing.
     
    K8 notsogrand, Aug 9, 2007
    #1
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  2. K8 notsogrand

    Spirit Guest

    Low Power could easily account for all those problems.
     
    Spirit, Aug 9, 2007
    #2
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  3. K8 notsogrand

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Indeed. Bad voltage can cause all sorts of flakey, unexpected responses from
    programs.
     
    Rick Rogers, Aug 9, 2007
    #3
  4. Well my main machine is back on line with a new power supply.And working good
    until I had to resart windows. the dam thing still won't restart!!
    Shut the computer off then turn it back on and every thing boots up fine.
    This starting to piss me off!!!
     
    K8 notsogrand, Aug 11, 2007
    #4
  5. K8 notsogrand

    Rick Rogers Guest

    Hi,

    Recheck that all cabling is fully seated, including wires you did not touch.
    Something may have been jarred loose, perhaps one of the switch wires going
    to the motherboard itself. It is also possible that the old PSU damaged the
    Windows installation, you might check the event viewer for error messages
    related to such.
     
    Rick Rogers, Aug 11, 2007
    #5
  6. Hi

    Well I double checked all the conections. Everything is good there.
    There was an harddisk error in the event viewer. But nothing from yesterday.
    The error messge said to replace the cable from hard drive to the motherboard.
    I don't think this is the problem.
    but I'm goning to replace it anyway.

    This is what its doing when I try to restart.
    First the monitor gose onto power save mode.
    the harddrive spins up and starts working
    Then I can hear the windows chime start.
    Then I get green dots accros the screen and then the monitor shuts off.

    And it keeps doing this over and over. Until finnaly I have to turn the
    power supply off. (This is not good for my computer)

    It started doing this before I installed the new PSU. And it still doing the
    exect same thing.
     
    K8 notsogrand, Aug 11, 2007
    #6
  7. K8 notsogrand

    w_tom Guest

    We have no reason to believe the new power supply is even working.
    We cannot know that until we have voltage numbers from purple, orange,
    red, and yellow wire from power supply to motherboard. Based upon
    what was posted, we have only speculation that the original supply was
    defective. Yes, a bad supply can make everything else work strange.
    But the problem could be due to any other part of the power supply
    'system'.

    First establish that the power supply system is working by using
    minimal information from those four wires. Only then can we move on
    to other suspects. Without those numbers, we have no idea what is
    causing those problems AND may be chasing ghosts.
     
    w_tom, Aug 12, 2007
    #7
  8. What???

    If the power supply is not working, then whats powering my computer right
    now..

    And no, I dont have voltage meter.
     
    K8 notsogrand, Aug 12, 2007
    #8
  9. K8 notsogrand

    w_tom Guest

    If computer is not powered, then power supply is still powering some
    computer parts. Why pull AC power cord from wall before changing
    anything? Because even if computer does not power on, still, the many
    parts of a power supply 'system' still have voltage.

    Not having a meter is like not having a screwdriver. Meter and
    screw driver are such standard tools that both are sold even in
    Kmart. Are K-mart shoppers geniuses? No meter is no excuse. If you
    want to fix it, then you get a 3.5 digit meter. A tool so
    inexpensive, so powerful, and also sold in Wal-mart, Loews, Radio
    Shack, Sears, Home Depot, and Tru-Value Hardware. Even Ipods are more
    complex.

    I thought you were asking for help. Based in everything posted,
    then replies will only be wild speculation. If you want help, your
    replies will only be as useful as information you provide. Currently
    you have provided near zero useful information. Get the meter. Learn
    how much is known in less than one minute.

    If you want to solve the problem quickly, get that meter. Measure
    purple wire DC voltage on the 20 volts scale both before and when
    power switch is pressed. Post those numbers here. Learn where to
    look for the defect.

    Did you know that all powered off comptuers are still powered? Power
    cord must be disconnected before moving anything inside the machine.
    Why? Because even a computer that will not power on contains voltages
    when power cord connects to AC wall receptacle.
     
    w_tom, Aug 13, 2007
    #9
  10. I'm not trying to be rude or anything.
    But your saying even if the computer is up and working fine. I can still
    have a bad PSU
     
    K8 notsogrand, Aug 14, 2007
    #10
  11. K8 notsogrand

    w_tom Guest

    Yes. For example, a power supply can have failing electrolytic
    capacitors. Therefore its ripple voltage is excessive and its voltage
    regulation is poor. The computer will work just fine except when load
    is maximum AND will fail months later as the electrolytics fail. The
    power supply is already defective. Computer still boots OK. Meter
    can identify that failure during the max load (multitasking) test -
    especially when the failure only creates a rare computer crash.

    Another defective power supply works just fine in another computer
    but will not work in this one. It may be undersized - but just large
    enough to run that other computer. Its signaling voltages may be
    defective, just enough to be seen OK by another computer, but not
    properly read by this computer's power supply controller.

    Two example of how a power supply can work and yet still be
    defective. In the second example, one would blame the power supply
    controller rather than a defective power supply. Also an example of
    why shotgunning can lead to total confusion.
     
    w_tom, Aug 14, 2007
    #11
  12. This could explane my problems i'm having. (Thanks)

    Could it be that the old PSU had damaged somthing (vidio card, hard drive,)?
    I better get my hands on a meter to see if the new PSU is even working right.


    I can't see it being undersized since the new one is 550w ATX. (the old one
    was 500w)Or did I even hook it up right?
    The new one has one 20 pin and two 4 pin connecters for the motherboard.
    but I only room for one of the 4 pins. One has two yellow and two black
    wires (this is the one I hooked up) and the second 4 pin has Red, black,
    ornage and yellow.

    Now the motherboard manual says that the 4pin should be two +12v and two
    ground.

    Is there a way to test the max load with out a meter?
     
    K8 notsogrand, Aug 15, 2007
    #12
  13. K8 notsogrand

    w_tom Guest

    If a power supply creates damage to any computer part, then another
    function was missing inside that power supply. To damage a video card
    or hard drive, then voltage must be excessive. But even power
    supplies 30 years ago contained separate circuits so that overvoltage
    would not happen. It is required in all supplies today. However, with
    so many A+ Certified computer techs having no electrical knowledge,
    the market is chock full of power supplies missing essential functions
    and selling only on watts and price. To dump supplies missing
    essential functions, a supply manufacturer need only forget to provide
    that long list of numeric specs. What did your supply manufacturer
    do?

    Take the 500 watt number. That could be a 350 watt supply measured
    differently. They did not lie. They only (intentionally?) deceived.
    Again, they can do what in a market where computer assemblers have
    little electrical knowledge - don't even know how to read spec
    numbers. Then a supply may not even do 350 watts. Put the computer
    into maximum power consumption mode (multitask to all peripherals) and
    take voltages on orange, red, yellow, and purple wires. If power
    supply is sufficient, then voltages will remain above 3.23, 4.87, and
    11.7 volts. Best way to confirm size of a supply - measure it under
    full load.

    No conductor has same electricity at both ends. CPUs can go from
    consuming less than 1 amp to demanding tens of amps - in only
    microseconds. Therefore PC traces through motherboard are too long.
    We put 12 volts at the CPU with that 4 (black and yellow) wire next to
    CPU's power supply. To provide sufficient power fast enough, a CPU
    has a power supply adjacent and a dedicated 12 volt power source.
    That four wire connector would connect somewhere next to CPU.

    We test power supplies even better outside the computer. That is
    hundreds of dollars in test equipment with dynamic loads, cooling for
    those loads, and measurements even for response times. We also use an
    oscilloscope. Either you do that, or you do something hundreds of
    times less expensive. Using the meter is the only useful test you
    have without major expenses. It must be 3.5 digits because an analog
    meter is not sufficiently accurate. If your motherboard has a voltage
    monitor, then the meter is necessary to calibrate that monitor.
     
    w_tom, Aug 16, 2007
    #13
  14. K8 notsogrand

    Spirit Guest

    Actually for a power supply to cause problems the voltage can be
    low or not clean enough of a wave length (tough generally computers
    are fairly forgiving of either of these issues). High voltage or a high
    forced amperage can also cause issues, especially spikes.
     
    Spirit, Aug 16, 2007
    #14
  15. K8 notsogrand

    w_tom Guest

    Power supplies must maintain perfectly in-spec power even when AC
    mains voltage drops so low that light bulbs are only at 40%
    intensity. Even Intel specs for power supplies make that demand.
    That is another function of power supplies - to make AC power problems
    irrelevant. But again, when computer assemblers only buy on dollars
    and watts, then dumped into the market are many supplies missing those
    required functions.

    Let's look at the output of a computer grade UPS when in battery
    backup mode. That 120 volt modified sine wave is ... two 200 volts
    square waves with up to a 270 volt spike between those square waves.
    Is that clean electricity? Of course not. Why does that one UPS not
    cause computer problems? Again, power supplies make such power
    problems irrelevant. That is required.

    That UPS outputs power so 'dirty' as to damage some small electric
    motors. Same electricity is perfectally acceptable to properly
    constructed computers. Just another function that must be inside that
    power supply.

    However we don't let such power problems remain. For example, if
    wall receptacles are installed with wires pushed into the back, then
    intermittents can occur that exceed power supply functions. Whereas
    'push in the back' wiring is acceptable for lights, it is completely
    unacceptable for computers. A quick inspection by removing receptacle
    cover plates will confirm good wiring wrapped around and secured by a
    side mounted screw. Using the screw to clamp wires is important so
    that power supply can make other electrical problems irrelevant.

    But when a supply is failing, the computer may still boot. Only way
    to find that failure is using a tool so ubiquitous as to be sold even
    in K-mart, Sears, Radio Shack, Wal-mart, hardware stores, Lowes, etc.
    That 3.5 digit multimeter costs only $20 - less in Wal-mart and when
    on sale. Two mnutes with the meter means previous posts were
    unnecessary beause meter numbers are so definitive - not subjective..
     
    w_tom, Aug 17, 2007
    #15
  16. Thank's for your reply
    But I think I'm going to take in and get it looked at.
    Becouse if the new supply is not working right, theres not much I can do
    about it.
    Besides buy a new one.
     
    K8 notsogrand, Aug 19, 2007
    #16
  17. K8 notsogrand

    w_tom Guest

    There were a few things to fix the system without 'buying a new'
    something. But then the reason we fix things is to learn. My bet all
    along was an intermiittent problem on the video card. But without
    facts (the numbers), then this entire discusson was wasted time;
    nothing was learned.
     
    w_tom, Aug 20, 2007
    #17
  18. Well the problem seems to be fixed. (for now)
    It turned out to be a bug in the OS. One or two driver's in Vista were not
    booting up at restart. So I put in Vista's DVD rom and asked it to repair my
    computer. (and so far so good) Its restarting just fine and everything seems
    to be working. But with this thing...
     
    K8 notsogrand, Aug 20, 2007
    #18
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