has anything changed in the new build?

Discussion in 'Windows Live Mail' started by Roland Schweiger, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. Just updated windows (live) essentials and the Version of
    Windows Live Mail
    changted to

    Build 16.4.3528.0331

    Does anyone know if there is any significant change?

    greetings

    Roland Schweiger
     
    Roland Schweiger, Apr 21, 2014
    #1
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  2. Roland Schweiger

    Good Guy Guest

    On 21/04/2014 13:47, Roland Schweiger wrote:
    > Just updated windows (live) essentials and the Version of
    > Windows Live Mail
    > changted to
    >
    > Build 16.4.3528.0331
    >
    > Does anyone know if there is any significant change?
    >
    > greetings
    >
    > Roland Schweiger


    Apart from security fixes NOTHING quite conspicuous. What version were
    you using before?

    The newer versions don't have "proper" quoting system so it would be
    quite difficult to know what is original and what is not from the
    mail/post. some people have decided to remain on version 14.XXXXX just
    for these reasons. Microsoft wants everybody to buy their Outlook
    e-mail client for everyday use but it hasn't got the newsgroup features
    (in fact it never had from day 1).

    --
    Good Guy
    Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
    Website: http://html-css.co.uk
    Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us
     
    Good Guy, Apr 21, 2014
    #2
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  3. Roland Schweiger

    VanguardLH Guest

    Roland Schweiger wrote:

    > Just updated windows (live) essentials and the Version of Windows Live
    > Mail changted to
    >
    > Build 16.4.3528.0331
    >
    > Does anyone know if there is any significant change?


    Microsoft lost a lawsuit by Sky Communications that forces Microsoft to
    discontinue using the "SkyDrive" product name. They have to update
    every product that references SkyDrive and change it to OneDrive. The
    update to WLM had nothing to do with any feature changes or bug fixes.
    It was just to change to using the OneDrive service name. WLM has the
    attachment option to use a SkyDrive, er, OneDrive account to store
    attachments online and reduce the size of your e-mail.

    If not for the lawsuit forcing a product or service name change,
    Microsoft would not have updated WLM. WLM is a dead (legacy) product.
    Microsoft isn't investing any resources to evolve or fix WLM.
     
    VanguardLH, Apr 21, 2014
    #3
  4. Roland Schweiger

    mac Guest

    "VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
    news:lj3mff$a2f$...

    > Roland Schweiger wrote:


    >> Does anyone know if there is any significant change?



    > Microsoft lost a lawsuit by Sky Communications that forces Microsoft to
    > discontinue using the "SkyDrive" product name. They have to update
    > every product that references SkyDrive and change it to OneDrive.


    Why oh Why does someone not take out a Lawsuit to stop MS calling WLM a
    working program for mail and news? :))

    mac
     
    mac, Apr 22, 2014
    #4
  5. Roland Schweiger

    Good Guy Guest

    On 22/04/2014 02:10, mac wrote:
    >


    >
    > Why oh Why does someone not take out a Lawsuit to stop MS calling WLM a
    > working program for mail and news? :))
    >



    Because it is a working program. Just because people don't like how it
    works doesn't make it a "non-working" program. How can you prove that
    it is a non-working program? Who decides that?
     
    Good Guy, Apr 22, 2014
    #5
  6. >Why oh Why does someone not take out a Lawsuit to stop MS calling WLM a
    >working program for mail and news? :))



    Your posting is not very constructive.
    WLM IMHO is a working program!
    It had and has a few bugs of which some have been fixed (e.g. the error 3204
    problem, the calendar sync problem).
    There are some potential enhancement proposals and there still are some bugs
    that have not been fixed, e.g. IMAP account handling where for instance
    eMails will not always be deleted on the server when deleted locally.

    But WHY do you state that WlM is not a working program??

    In my opinion ... though many people do not seem to like it ... WLM is one
    of the few, if not the only program that offers such an integrated
    functionality.
    eMail client that can handle practically all today used protocols <---> news
    reader <---> feeds. The ability to choose by yourself if you want to store
    something locally or on the server.

    WLM is very functional especially if one has to use numerous eMail accounts
    of different types! And in my opinion it really is worth to be developed
    further.

    If someone states that wlm is not a working program .... then he should
    kindly state the reasons and experience that led to this estimation. tnx.

    greetings

    Roland Schweiger
     
    Roland Schweiger, Apr 22, 2014
    #6
  7. Roland Schweiger

    mac Guest

    You both no doubt spotted the smiley, FWIW I find that the 2009 version does
    work reasonably well in W7 and W8+.
    Obviously YMMV?

    mac
     
    mac, Apr 23, 2014
    #7
  8. Roland Schweiger

    VanguardLH Guest

    mac wrote:

    > You both no doubt spotted the smiley


    Smilies don't obviate responses. Often smilies are used similarly to
    how a speaker attempts to use "I just said" or "I only said". They hope
    the "just" or "only" or smiley will avoid or deflect retorts. When
    someone says this to me and after I retort, they usually respond "I only
    said" and I interrupt with "Yeah, I only heard". A smiley may attempt
    to embue tone but it doesn't nullify content.

    "I only said you're the ugliest person ever."
    "You are a phucking moron. ;-)"
    "WLM is not a working program. :))"

    In most if not all cases, a better worded phrase to convey intention or
    tone is better than pasting on a smiley. I've yet to see anyone hand in
    an essay or thesis with a bunch of smilies strewn throughout. We learn
    speaking through imitation as babies. Writing is a practiced skill.

    > FWIW I find that the 2009 version does work reasonably well in W7 and W8+.


    That means you need somewhere to download the full installer instead of
    using the web installer offered at the Live download page. The page
    will push the latest version that supports the OS reported by your
    connection to them.

    I think it was winston that earlier noted here the URLs to find the full
    installers. I downloaded them but I don't know that the EULA allows me
    to upload them to somewhere else (in case Microsoft yanks their
    downloads), like to online storage, to allow for public distribution.
     
    VanguardLH, Apr 23, 2014
    #8
  9. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    mac wrote, On 4/21/2014 9:10 PM:
    >
    > "VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
    > news:lj3mff$a2f$...
    >
    >> Roland Schweiger wrote:

    >
    >>> Does anyone know if there is any significant change?

    >
    >
    >> Microsoft lost a lawsuit by Sky Communications that forces Microsoft to
    >> discontinue using the "SkyDrive" product name. They have to update
    >> every product that references SkyDrive and change it to OneDrive.

    >
    > Why oh Why does someone not take out a Lawsuit to stop MS calling WLM a
    > working program for mail and news? :))
    >
    > mac


    Lol...
    About as futile as using OE or WM :)


    WLM is for use with a MSFT account signed on to Microsoft Services,
    using Hotmail type email accounts (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com) or
    3rd party email accounts registered as MSFT accounts for synchronization
    of messages, contacts, calendar data and ability to override isp
    messages size limits via OneDrive when using photo-email.

    The above was the focus since day one...folks just didn't believe them
    or chose to ignore it thinking that OE or WM would rise from their own
    ashes (Phoenix) and be reborn.

    Used for its intent, it provides what no other free email program does.



    --
    ...winston
    msft mvp consumer apps
     
    ...winston, Apr 25, 2014
    #9
  10. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    VanguardLH wrote, On 4/21/2014 2:02 PM:
    > Roland Schweiger wrote:
    >
    >> Just updated windows (live) essentials and the Version of Windows Live
    >> Mail changted to
    >>
    >> Build 16.4.3528.0331
    >>
    >> Does anyone know if there is any significant change?

    >
    > Microsoft lost a lawsuit by Sky Communications that forces Microsoft to
    > discontinue using the "SkyDrive" product name. They have to update
    > every product that references SkyDrive and change it to OneDrive. The
    > update to WLM had nothing to do with any feature changes or bug fixes.
    > It was just to change to using the OneDrive service name. WLM has the
    > attachment option to use a SkyDrive, er, OneDrive account to store
    > attachments online and reduce the size of your e-mail.
    >
    > If not for the lawsuit forcing a product or service name change,
    > Microsoft would not have updated WLM. WLM is a dead (legacy) product.
    > Microsoft isn't investing any resources to evolve or fix WLM.
    >


    That happened in QFE3 with a new version of OneDrive replacing
    SkyDriver. This update is QFE4 which also updated OneDrive but not for
    the same reason (product renaming) you've mentioned in above. :)

    Additionally, since Messenger is still included in the base full and web
    version installers installation of same will inform and download the
    current version of Skype.

    Also under-the-hood compatibility updates for applications integrated
    with other applications in the suite of products and OneDrive.





    --
    ...winston
    msft mvp consumer apps
     
    ...winston, Apr 25, 2014
    #10
  11. Roland Schweiger

    Ildhund Guest

    Ildhund, Apr 25, 2014
    #11
  12. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    VanguardLH wrote, On 4/23/2014 11:36 AM:
    2009 version does work reasonably well in W7 and W8+.
    >
    > That means you need somewhere to download the full installer instead of
    > using the web installer offered at the Live download page. The page
    > will push the latest version that supports the OS reported by your
    > connection to them.
    >
    > I think it was winston that earlier noted here the URLs to find the full
    > installers. I downloaded them but I don't know that the EULA allows me
    > to upload them to somewhere else (in case Microsoft yanks their
    > downloads), like to online storage, to allow for public distribution.
    >


    Full version 2012 installer
    http://g.live.com/1rewlive5-all/en/wlsetup-all.exe

    Web Version 2012 Installer – English Language Version
    http://g.live.com/1rewlive5-web/en/wlsetup-web.exe

    Full Version 2011 Installer – English Language version
    http://g.live.com/1rewlive4-all/en/wlsetup-all.exe

    Web Version 2011 Installer – English Language Version
    http://g.live.com/1rewlive4-web/en/wlsetup-web.exe

    Note: Direct download links above are for the English language
    installer. For a different country replace the ‘en’ with the local
    language code.
    Local language codes:

    http://liveunplugged.files.wordpres...des-for-windows-live-essentials-downloads.pdf


    The installers for the full and web versions appear to be available for
    download on other non-Msft web sites either via links to the MSFT
    servers or as the *.exe (or *.zip). Since distribution of MSFT products
    requires MSFT permission it's unclear whether or not said sites have all
    received permission to host the *.exe (or zipped version) of the actual
    installer.



    --
    ...winston
    msft mvp consumer apps
     
    ...winston, Apr 25, 2014
    #12
  13. Roland Schweiger

    VanguardLH Guest

    VanguardLH, Apr 25, 2014
    #13
  14. "...winston" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:ljcpm6$vdm$...

    >WLM is for use with a MSFT account signed on to Microsoft Services, using
    >Hotmail type email accounts (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com) or 3rd party
    >email accounts registered as MSFT accounts for synchronization of messages,
    >contacts, calendar data and ability to override isp messages size limits
    >via OneDrive when using photo-email.


    >The above was the focus since day one...folks just didn't believe them or
    >chose to ignore it thinking that OE or WM would rise from their own ashes
    >(Phoenix) and be reborn.


    >Used for its intent, it provides what no other free email program does.



    Well i for my own privat use and intention ... i must admit ... never
    thought that WLM would rise like Phoenix out of the ashes,
    but probably i do use it for *more* than what it was intended for.

    Currently i have WLM setup on 3 computers, i have about 11 eMail accounts of
    which 3 are @live addresses (now hotmail.com), i am also logged into
    live/hotmail service to use the calendars.
    The rest of the email accounts are IMAP except 1 which is pop3.
    Over the years and years, i have a relatively large amount of local folders
    + reasonnably amount of subfolders in the eMail accounts.
    Then i use 3 different news servers - one of my ISP in Vienna/Austria and
    the others that i can access from any location in the world.
    I also make much use of the calendar + ths calendar also syncs on my android
    phone (unfortunately only the main calendar syncs on the phone and not the
    others).

    So maybe i am "over using" wlm but it's just that i don't know of any other
    program with the same feature richness.
    Though newsgroups are regarded outdated by many people, the combination of
    WLM still is unique ---
    if i find a news posting interesting (e.g. the download links to the
    installers) i can simply drag the posting into a local store folder and then
    into the subfolder of my favorite email account.
    Until this very day, no other program offers such simplicity.
    The ability to choose for your self what to store locally and what to store
    on the server, is really wonderful.

    I don't want to praise wlm but just justify *why* i am using it extensively.

    And yes i do know that MS treats it as legacy / EOL but still i am not quite
    sure why --- they could keep developing it and make publicity for it.
    Rather than making publicity, wlm has always been "in the dormant state" as
    if only few people knew it ever existed ...

    In my local surroundings hardly people know what an eMail client is; most of
    them just use the browser and some www. webmailer, but IMHO a webmailer is
    only good if you just have one account or you aggregate your others in there
    (which i personally don't find very nice).

    greetings

    Roland Schweiger
     
    Roland Schweiger, Apr 25, 2014
    #14
  15. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    Roland Schweiger wrote, On 4/25/2014 6:40 PM:
    > "...winston" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:ljcpm6$vdm$...
    >
    >> WLM is for use with a MSFT account signed on to Microsoft Services,
    >> using Hotmail type email accounts (Hotmail, Live, Msn, Outlook.com) or
    >> 3rd party email accounts registered as MSFT accounts for
    >> synchronization of messages, contacts, calendar data and ability to
    >> override isp messages size limits via OneDrive when using photo-email.

    >
    >> The above was the focus since day one...folks just didn't believe them
    >> or chose to ignore it thinking that OE or WM would rise from their own
    >> ashes (Phoenix) and be reborn.

    >
    >> Used for its intent, it provides what no other free email program does.

    >
    >
    > Well i for my own privat use and intention ... i must admit ... never
    > thought that WLM would rise like Phoenix out of the ashes,
    > but probably i do use it for *more* than what it was intended for.
    >
    > Currently i have WLM setup on 3 computers, i have about 11 eMail
    > accounts of which 3 are @live addresses (now hotmail.com), i am also
    > logged into live/hotmail service to use the calendars.
    > The rest of the email accounts are IMAP except 1 which is pop3.
    > Over the years and years, i have a relatively large amount of local
    > folders + reasonnably amount of subfolders in the eMail accounts.
    > Then i use 3 different news servers - one of my ISP in Vienna/Austria
    > and the others that i can access from any location in the world.
    > I also make much use of the calendar + ths calendar also syncs on my
    > android phone (unfortunately only the main calendar syncs on the phone
    > and not the others).
    >
    > So maybe i am "over using" wlm but it's just that i don't know of any
    > other program with the same feature richness.
    > Though newsgroups are regarded outdated by many people, the combination
    > of WLM still is unique --- if i find a news posting interesting (e.g.
    > the download links to the installers) i can simply drag the posting into
    > a local store folder and then into the subfolder of my favorite email
    > account.
    > Until this very day, no other program offers such simplicity.
    > The ability to choose for your self what to store locally and what to
    > store on the server, is really wonderful.
    >
    > I don't want to praise wlm but just justify *why* i am using it
    > extensively.
    >
    > And yes i do know that MS treats it as legacy / EOL but still i am not
    > quite sure why --- they could keep developing it and make publicity for it.
    > Rather than making publicity, wlm has always been "in the dormant state"
    > as if only few people knew it ever existed ...
    >
    > In my local surroundings hardly people know what an eMail client is;
    > most of them just use the browser and some www. webmailer, but IMHO a
    > webmailer is only good if you just have one account or you aggregate
    > your others in there (which i personally don't find very nice).
    >
    > greetings
    >
    > Roland Schweiger
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    The rising from the ashes (Phoenix comment) was in reference to OE
    (Outlook Express) and Vista's WM (Windows Mail).

    Too many folks hold the opinion that MSFT should give them everything
    they want, fix everything released, and continue to support everything
    in perpetuity. All pipe dreams and even more so when one considers OE,
    WM, and WLM are free and use of said products agrees to allow them to
    discontinue, change, modify the program.

    What one uses the program when it provides optional features is personal
    choice. But personal choice and using those optional features doesn't
    preempt MSFT's design intent...anything beyond that is just extra with
    all of its pros/cons.



    --
    ...winston
    msft mvp consumer apps
     
    ...winston, Apr 26, 2014
    #15
  16. "...winston"

    >Too many folks hold the opinion that MSFT should give them everything they
    >want, fix everything released, and continue to support everything in
    >perpetuity. All pipe dreams and even more so when one considers OE, WM, and
    >WLM are free and use of said products agrees to allow them to discontinue,
    >change, modify the program.


    >What one uses the program when it provides optional features is personal
    >choice. But personal choice and using those optional features doesn't
    >preempt MSFT's design intent...anything beyond that is just extra with all
    >of its pros/cons.


    Indeed i do know that wlm is free for use and MSFT can do anything it wands
    / likes with it.
    Often i don't really want to understand that there are no 3rd party people
    who have managed to construct a similar product, in my opinion, e.g.
    Thunderbird is in many ways not comparable to wlm and all other clients i
    know of come no way near the feature richness of wlm.

    Yet so many people "bash" against wlm (and all MSFT products) and when going
    a little bit into debth ... aven with all the drawbacks, bugs, etc.
    sometimes the free and half legacy products still do their job very well.
    There seems to be a discrepancy between individual (emotional) binding to a
    product and its real capacities ...

    Well anyhow, for a while, i will keep on using wlm and hope it will keep
    working for a while.

    greetings

    Roland Schweiger
     
    Roland Schweiger, Apr 26, 2014
    #16
  17. Roland Schweiger

    VanguardLH Guest

    Roland Schweiger wrote:

    > Often i don't really want to understand that there are no 3rd party people
    > who have managed to construct a similar product


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync
    Tis a Microsoft proprietary protocol. For standard (non-proprietary)
    POP, SMTP, and IMAP, there are lots of e-mail clients from which to
    choose.

    Microsoft had WebDAV. Dropped it. Then they went to Deltasync.
    Dropped it. Now they're headed to EAS but, of course, WLM will not get
    updated to support it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_ActiveSync
     
    VanguardLH, Apr 26, 2014
    #17
  18. Roland Schweiger

    Ildhund Guest

    VanguardLH wrote...

    > Microsoft had WebDAV. Dropped it. Then they went to Deltasync. Dropped it. Now they're headed to EAS but, of course, WLM will not get updated to support it.


    These protocols are only for accessing Microsoft's own free mail service. Since IMAP was enabled last year for these accounts, DeltaSync is superfluous for email. It remains available for contacts and calendars. Or does EAS do something that this combination of IMAP/DS doesn't do?
    --
    Noel
     
    Ildhund, Apr 26, 2014
    #18
  19. Roland Schweiger

    VanguardLH Guest

    Ildhund wrote:

    > VanguardLH wrote...
    >
    >> Microsoft had WebDAV. Dropped it. Then they went to Deltasync.
    >> Dropped it. Now they're headed to EAS but, of course, WLM will not
    >> get updated to support it.

    >
    > These protocols are only for accessing Microsoft's own free mail
    > service. Since IMAP was enabled last year for these accounts,
    > DeltaSync is superfluous for email. It remains available for contacts
    > and calendars.

    <please wrap lines at a physical line length of 76 chars, or less>
    <above was reformatted to shorten the excessively long physical lines>

    Deltasync is also used to connect to online contacts and calenders, not
    just for e-mail. WLM was designed for use with Microsoft's services.
    The POP and IMAP support was to make it an overall e-mail client. The
    intent was to build a Microsoft "car" but still be able to trailer along
    the stuff Microsoft couldn't control (i.e., standard e-mail protocols).
    It was their client with intended focus for use with their services.

    I'm using Thunderbird with Hotmail/Live/Outlook.com ever since Microsoft
    added IMAP support. Some IMAP servers are very quick. Not Microsoft's
    although they are faster than the IMAP servers with my ISP.

    > Or does EAS do something that this combination of
    > IMAP/DS doesn't do?


    For one thing, as mentioned in the wiki article, EAS communicates via
    HTTP. That means it is less likely to run afoul of firewalls or
    other security measures which would also affect web surfing. Tis maybe
    why Microsoft also used HTTP for Deltasync. There was EWS (Exchange Web
    Service) that lets users remotely connect to their company's Exchange
    server via HTTPS but it was limited and slow. Obviously EAS has no
    importance to e-mail providers that are still supporting only the
    standard e-mail protocols. It is of importance only to users of
    Exchange servers (i.e., Microsoft-based mail servers).

    Unlike Deltasync, Microsoft is licensing EAS to other vendors.
    Licensing isn't free. Still there is plenty of demand by corporations,
    e-mail providers, and users to have Exchange as the mail server. See:

    http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/lega...sing/Programs/ExchangeActiveSyncProtocol.aspx
    (http://tinyurl.com/k8pjxrv)

    As with Windows 8, Microsoft's focus is to (albeit belatedly) encompass
    mobile devices. No Deltasync client is a lightweight app like the
    e-mail clients for mobile devices. You can't do as much on a toy
    computer as you can on a desktop.

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/bb288524.aspx

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/1151.exchange-activesync-overview.aspx
    (http://tinyurl.com/aowx75t)

    EAS and IMAP can both protect the data on the network using SSL. EAS
    also protects the data on the client.

    http://blogs.technet.com/b/exchange/archive/2007/07/10/3403386.aspx
     
    VanguardLH, Apr 26, 2014
    #19
  20. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    Ildhund wrote, On 4/26/2014 2:44 PM:
    > VanguardLH wrote...
    >> Microsoft had WebDAV. Dropped it. Then they went to Deltasync.
    >> Dropped it. Now they're headed to EAS but, of course, WLM will not
    >> get updated to support it.

    >
    > These protocols are only for accessing Microsoft's own free mail
    > service. Since IMAP was enabled last year for these accounts, DeltaSync
    > is superfluous for email. It remains available for contacts and
    > calendars. Or does EAS do something that this combination of IMAP/DS
    > doesn't do?


    From the standpoint of the end user, no. From the business standpoint,
    yes - the latter can be monetized!

    --
    ...winston
    msft mvp consumer apps
     
    ...winston, Apr 27, 2014
    #20
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