Heavy Battery Drain after Hibernation

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Performance' started by Ian, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. Ian

    Ian Guest

    My machine is a new IBM/Lenovo ultraportable X 61s with Vista Business and I
    have installed all the Lenovo and Vista updates.

    I fully charged the battery, then put the machine into hibernation and
    unplugged the AC adapter. After an overnight (8-10 hours) hibernation, the
    battery had lost 15-20% power. However, if I unplugged the AC adapter before
    hibernation, the battery didn't drain at all. Lenovo/IBM had already replaced
    my battery and motherboard to no avail. I believe Vista was unable to shutoff
    the power consumption of all the components.

    At present, Lenovo/IBM Hong Kong Repair Center has confirmed battery drain
    issue is real and related to Vista updates. They found out that after
    reinstalling Vista, the battery didn't drain. The drain appeared only after
    installing around 19 Vista critical updates.

    The repair center admitted that the issue was too complicated for them to
    resolve alone. They've already requested assistance from their global tech
    support. Does anyone know the cause of battery drain and whether there is a
    solution or patch somewhere?
     
    Ian, Sep 11, 2007
    #1
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  2. Ian

    JF Guest

    I too have this issue. I just noticed it this morning after seeing it happen
    two days in a row. I'm loosing 45% of my battery in 24 hours. I have a
    brand new Lenovo T61. I deleted the Lenovo partitions and installed Vista
    Enterprise fresh, installed all the latest drivers from Lenovo and all Vista
    updates. I'll be curious and anxious to see a fix for this. Frankly, I'm
    about ready to revert back to Windows XP Pro. Aside from application
    incompadibilities in Vista (which is severely limiting what I can do and
    support from my Vista machine) I used Hibernation in that OS for years
    without issue. I've had nothing but trouble with Hibernation in Vista on a
    T43 and two T61's.

    For now, I'm going to try unplugging the power source prior to going into
    hibernation mode. What a hokey solution.

    Joel
     
    JF, Nov 24, 2007
    #2
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  3. Vista Home Premium
    Normal operation for the start menu power button is sleep, not hibernate, if
    it is plugged in.

    If you have it plugged in, used the power button icon, it will go to sleep
    mode, it will save the system as if it is ready to hibernate (allow hybrid
    sleep turned on), and stay in sleep mode. When you unplug it stays in sleep
    using up the power.

    In the Power options you need to change the way the way the Power buttons
    and lid function.
    There are options to use when on battery and when plugged in.

    If you want machine to always hibernate when the Start menu power button is
    used for instance you need to set that for both On battery and Plugged in
    states.

    Power options, Advanced settings Power buttons and lid.

    You can tell if it actually hibernates or is sleeping. When you start it
    back up if it is almost immediately available then it was just sleeping. If
    it shows a busy bar running at the bottom of the screen then it is restoring
    from the hard drive and it did make it to hibernate.

    I am not sure from your post just how you are having the computer
    'hibernate'. With the machine plugged in it will default to sleeping, it is
    tricky to get it to hibernate when plugged in with default settings.

    Michael
     
    Michael Walraven, Nov 25, 2007
    #3
  4. Ian

    Ian Guest

    I have no doubt I did use hibernate a dozen times. The battery drain after
    hibernation is real and repeatable. Both Lenovo Hong Kong and Yamato
    Laboratory (Lenovo's famous R&D center in Tokyo) have both confirmed the
    issue.

    I had reinstalled Vista using the Lenovo recovery discs (2nd revision) 3
    times; once on the original 5,400 rpm hard drive and twice on a new 7,200 rpm
    drive. Every time after I had finished installing Vista, I installed all the
    Windows and Lenovo updates (using System Update). I was very surprised to
    find out that the installation on the 5,400 rpm drive resulted in no battery
    drain. I charged the battery to 100% and waited 8-10 hours several times.
    However, the twice installations on the 7,200 rpm drive resulted in battery
    drain!

    I don't believe the 7,200 rpm has anything to do with the battery drain. I
    suspect the battery drain has something to do with the priority in installing
    Windows updates first or Lenovo updates first.

    Yamato suggested to uncheck the option "Allow this device to wake the
    computer" on the network card. However, it didn't resolve the issue.

    I strongly believe one or more buggy drivers are not able to turn off some
    components after hibernation resulting in the battery drain.

    Ian
     
    Ian, Nov 26, 2007
    #4
  5. Ian,
    My NIC also has a 'allow the computer to turn off this device to save power'
    option.

    As I understand, if the computer is on AC power when it is hibernated then
    the clock on the BIOS is set to wake the computer up, for instance at 3AM to
    check for Microsoft updates. If the computer is on battery power when it is
    hibernated, than the BIOS wakeup clock is not set.

    It is possible that the two drives have different power management
    capabilities. My drive says it supports D0 and D3 (Power Data property under
    Details Tab in Device manager).

    Interesting functionality displayed here, I will be watching for solutions
    or additional understanding of what is going on.
    My laptop is still XP so am not encountering your problem.

    Michael
    Vista Home Premium
     
    Michael Walraven, Nov 26, 2007
    #5
  6. Ian

    JF Guest

    I am using the 5400 RPM drive which came with my T61. I can confirm that the
    option for hybrid sleep is not enabled (supposedly, this is by design in
    Vista on a Laptop, as it's intended for power savings when constantly plugged
    into AC).

    I am selecting "Hibernate" from the shutdown menu - not closing the lid. I
    do close the lid when I indend to just go to sleep. I do this frequently at
    home when I know it's going to be plugged into AC. I intentionally hibernate
    when I'm mobile and need to maximize my battery. When I hibernate, all the
    lights are turned off - including the cresent moon, which would indicate that
    it's asleep. When I experience battery drain, there aren't any event
    messages in the system event log, so I am pretty certain the laptop didn't
    power up to check for Windows updates.

    Unplugging the AC before selecting hibernate seems to prevent the battery
    drain. Still a dumb solution.

    Also, if this is by design, it's funny that Lenovo doesn't know about this.
    From Ian's post, Lenovo doesn't quickly replace batteries and motherboards on
    these laptops. The want to exhaust all troubleshooting they know of before
    replacing parts.

    I haven't yet tried pressing the eject button on my Lenovo dock, then
    hibernating. I'll try that later on today. Til now, I've been doing this
    strictly off the dock.

    Joel
     
    JF, Nov 26, 2007
    #6
  7. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Joel,

    Lenovo DID replace my battery promptly after my first compliant. When I
    complained the second time they replaced the motherboard. When I complained
    the third time, they delivered a newly installed hard drive (with Vista only,
    no Windows or Lenovo updates) to my home on a Saturday afternoon.

    All of the above attempts failed to fix the battery drain. However, Lenovo
    did mention that battery drain didn't appear when Vista was reinstalled (like
    the day you purchased your Lenovo). However, after installing the first
    several Vista updates (no Lenovo update), the battery drain appeared.

    During last weekend, I was able to install Vista on my original 5,400 rpm
    hard drive with all Vista and Lenovo updates. The battery drain DIDN'T
    appear. Battery drain first appeared on this same original hard drive 3
    months ago. I also installed Vista on a new 7,200 rpm hard drive twice,
    unfortunately the battery drain appeared at both attempts. This led me to
    believe the drain has nothing to do with hard drives.

    At present, I firmly believe the battery drain is a software problem not
    hardware. It probably has something to do with updates installation. In
    another words, if you install update A first, the problem wouldn't appear. If
    you install B first, it will. How else could you explain my experiences?

    Ian
     
    Ian, Nov 27, 2007
    #7
  8. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Michael,

    The battery drain appeared on both my original 5,400 and the newly acquired
    7,200 rpm drives. I installed Vista (with all the Vista and Lenovo updates)
    on both drives in the last couple of days. However, I don't know what I did
    RIGHT, I repeatedly hibernate my X61s several times and the battery drain
    didn't appear on my 5,400 rpm drive. I didn't have the same luck with my
    7,200 rpm drive though!

    I believe I must have done something different installing my 5,400 rpm drive
    than my 7,200 rpm drive. I think it has something to do with which update I
    intall first. However, with so many Vista and Lenovo updates, it is unwieldy
    for me to figure out.


    Ian
     
    Ian, Nov 27, 2007
    #8
  9. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Michael/Joel,

    By trial and error, I have found out that my Lenovo X61's modem was the
    culprit quietly draining my battery. Under Control Panel -> Phone and Modem
    -> Modems tab -> Power Management tab, simply uncheck "Allow this device to
    wake the computer" should work. Let me know your result.

    Ian
     
    Ian, Nov 28, 2007
    #9
  10. Ian

    JF Guest

    Hi Ian-

    Thanks for the tip. This discussion has been most helpful. I just disabled
    that on the modem. I'll report back after I try hibernating.

    I was just getting back on this post to ask if you have the built in
    Bluetooth adapter. But I guess that wouldn't make sense since the radio is
    powered off, which essentially completely powers off that device, so it
    doesn't even show up in Device Manager when powered off.

    By chance, do you know what the power management option is under the Intel
    Gigabit adapter? It shows "Remove power if cable disconnected". If I recall
    correctly, this is one of those devices that just worked with the initial
    install of Vista, then a Windows update pulled down an updated driver, then I
    went to Intel's web site to get the latest driver.

    Thanks,
    Joel
     
    JF, Nov 29, 2007
    #10
  11. Ian

    Ian Guest

    joel,

    My Lenovo X61s has a Intel 82566MM Gigabit Network card. The options under
    Power Management are:

    - Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power.
    - Allow this device to wake the computer and a sub option,
    - Only allow management stations to wake the computer.

    Hope the info helps.

    Ian
     
    Ian, Nov 30, 2007
    #11
  12. Ian

    JF Guest

    Well, I set the modem so that it won't wake the computer. I hibernated last
    night at 10 PM and at 9 AM when I pressed the power button, it was down 20%.

    You must have the Microsoft provided NIC driver. My Power Management tab
    has an Intel logo and interesting power options.

    Joel
     
    JF, Nov 30, 2007
    #12
  13. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Joel,

    Either Vista or more specifically the NIC driver couldn't shutdown the modem
    or something else is draining your battery. My Power Management doesn't have
    the Intel logo. My Intel NIC driver version is 9.7.251.0.

    I fixed the battery drain by using the 2nd revision of Lenovo's Vista
    recovery discs to completely reinstalled a new hard drive followed by
    switching off the modem. If all else fail, I suggest you borrow the recovery
    discs from Lenovo and do the same.

    Good luck!

    Ian
     
    Ian, Dec 1, 2007
    #13
  14. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Joel,

    After couple of updates from Lenovo and Microsoft, my battery has started to
    drain again. This is really annoying and puzzling!

    Ian
     
    Ian, Dec 4, 2007
    #14
  15. Ian

    JF Guest

    Indeed. I had surgery last week, so I didn't get a chance to test this
    further. It looks like I had a MS provided Thinkpad modem driver. System
    update didn't pick it up. I did download from Lenovo and applied it, change
    the power management, but no dice. Yesterday, updates came out, and after
    installing and restarting, it told me I had to activate. It wouldn't accept
    the online attempt. I am so ready to dump Vista and revert back to XP. I'm
    going to continue for now, but if this activation snafu and power management
    stuff doesn't get fixed soon, I'm going back. May as well get the power I
    paid for and support for all software we run in our organization (yes, I'm on
    crutches with this laptop - I have to connect to a Citrix server to use a lot
    of the programs I support).

    Joel
     
    JF, Dec 12, 2007
    #15
  16. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Lenovo Hong Kong advised me today that they are working with Microsoft to
    fix this battery drain problem. Apparently this problem affects all notebook
    installed with Vista. The problem has to do with Vista meeting EnergyStar
    certification or something like that.

    Lenovo also noticed that sometimes their notebook PC battery doesn't drain
    and sometimes it does.

    To find out what devices are actually running during hibernation, Lenovo
    suggests to run the following command at DOS prompt:

    powercfg /devicequery wake_armed

    If the DOS prompt returns with nothing, that means no device will stay on
    during hibernation. If a device is listed, that means that device is running
    quietly during hibernation and should be turned off.

    Lenovo couldn't say when a solution will be available. However, when a
    solution becomes available, they will notify me and I will let you know.

    Hope you could get back on both feet soon!

    Ian
     
    Ian, Dec 13, 2007
    #16
  17. Ian

    JF Guest

    Running the command powercfg /devicequery wake_armed results my MS USB Wheel
    Mouse (only plugged into my mini-dock), Intel Gigabit controller, and High
    Definition Audio Controller.

    I read on another user board somewhere that someone with an ASUS laptop was
    having this same problem. I was curious when posting on this board how it
    seems it's Lenovo. Engery Star. That's funny.

    Whatever you've heard about a tonsillectomy in an adult, it's true! Thanks
    for the encouragement. I'll be anxious to hear what Lenovo/Microsoft work
    out for a fix. Until then, when I need to hibernate, I'll disconnect the
    power before hibernating (though, this will crash your system if your docked
    - doesn't matter if you hit the undock button first. When I disconnect to
    the power to the dock, the laptop freezes).

    Joel
     
    JF, Dec 13, 2007
    #17
  18. Ian

    JF Guest

    Ok, after disabling wake on lan on the gigabit controller and changing power
    management on the "High Definition Audio Controller" (it's a Microsoft device
    under System Devices in Device Manager), I no longer have battery drain in
    hibernation.

    Some perceptions about this. a) Why would Microsoft allow a "HD Audio
    Controller" the capability to wake a computer? Is this a hidden feature?
    You know, like "Clap on" and "Clap off". Now that would be a cool feature.
    b) I never had a problem with Wake on Lan causing battery drain in XP. Why
    should this start with this OS? Why does the OS care? It's the physical
    hardware that's supposed to detect the magic packet and wake up the computer.
    The OS has no interaction there. It's fine to disable Wake on Lan on my
    laptop, but my end users laptops, I want this enabled. I have management
    tools at the office that lets me utilize WOL. I'm using it in conjunction
    with Windows Update Services to wake up all the PC's on the LAN in the middle
    of the night to install Windows Updates, then shut down the machines.

    At any rate, after completing this thread, I'm thinking I'm going to revert
    back to Windows XP. I might try Vista again after SP1 comes out, but XP was
    much more useful on a laptop than Vista. I intend to build a phat new
    computer and load it with a TV tuner or two and load Ultamite. Power
    management features won't a primary concern, though the hybrid standby would
    be a very nice feature on a system intended for the livingroom. You know,
    when you go into standby, you want it to wake immediately, but if the power
    goes out, you don't want it to damage your Windows installation.

    Thanks so much for the help with this Ian.

    Joel
     
    JF, Dec 16, 2007
    #18
  19. note that if you have wake on lan active then the lan hardware must be 'on'
    and consuming power. If it was off and not consuming power then it could not
    see the magic packets. If wake on lan is active you will have battery drain.

    I also would like to know what HD Audio Controller has to do with waking the
    computer. I like your clap on clap off idea though.

    On my laptop with XP (SP2) for power management on my Ethernet adapter it
    includes this warning.

    Warning: Allowing this device to bring the computer out of standby may
    cause this computer to periodically wakeup to refresh its network state. If
    You travel with this computer or run it on a battery, you should not turn on
    this feature as the machine may awaken at inopportune times or consume
    the battery.

    The same warning is in my Vista machine.

    If you don't 'Allow this computer to turn off this device to save power' in
    either XP or Vista you will get battery drain.
    (at least with my configurations)

    Michael
    Vista Home premium - Dell XPS 410 (desktop)
    XP - Dell Inspiron 8100 (Laptop)
     
    Michael Walraven, Dec 16, 2007
    #19
  20. Ian

    Ian Guest

    JF, good to hear that you've fixed the battery drain problem. On my side, my
    Hi Def Audio Controller doesn't have the power management option.

    As far as I know, the battery drain problem also affects Sony, Asus and
    probably all the notebook PC installed with Vista.
     
    Ian, Dec 17, 2007
    #20
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