Home Network Dilemma

Discussion in 'Server Networking' started by jaygreg, May 7, 2009.

  1. jaygreg

    jaygreg Guest

    I've been trying to make sense out of an assortment of products from
    Microsoft involving multiple computers and I'm getting lost. I have a home
    network of three machines running Windows 95 SE, Windows XP, and Vista. The
    later two machines have legal copies of Office 2003 Professional. Outlook is
    my mail server program.



    These machines are on separate floors, I'm the sole user, and they are often
    all on at the same time. The 95SE machine gets little use and if it has to
    be excluded to find my solution, it's alright. The other two, however, must
    be able to access my POP3 email and Outlook's Calendar, and Contact files.
    Ideally, I'd like the XP machine to retain the Office Suite with the
    elaborate filters and folders for email plus the calendar and all it's
    reminders and alarms but I need to have access to it from the Vista machine.



    This is not an enterprise, just a dream perhaps involving an elaborate
    network for a home system. I'm retired, have the time, and the interest to
    make one of these machines a server .but I'd be starting nearly from scratch
    on the learning curve.



    Can someone put me on a path to finding a way to get this accomplished in
    the most cost-effective way? I've read about Microsoft Exchange and
    SharePoint but they sound like they're for enterprises and probably bring
    enterprise-size costs... but I'm not sure.
     
    jaygreg, May 7, 2009
    #1
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  2. Outlook is not a Mail Server.
    1. You have to have an Exchange Server ($$$$$$$$). That is what does the
    "work".

    2. You can't use POP3. You have to use Outlook as a MAPI Client (aka, an
    Exchange Client),...which means You have to have an Exchange Server
    ($$$$$$$$).


    --
    Phillip Windell
    www.wandtv.com

    The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, May 7, 2009
    #2
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  3. jaygreg

    jaygreg Guest

    Exchange Server ($$$$$$$$)<<

    That's a service. Approximately how much for access from two machines by one
    account holder?
     
    jaygreg, May 7, 2009
    #3
  4. It is a Server Application.
    Wherever you buy it from can explain the Licensing But you need an Exchange
    Client Access License (ECAL) for each human that uses it. It is about $70
    per human (I don't know if Exchange comes with any ECALs out of the box or
    not). The OS that it runs on will need Server CALs,...but Server 2003
    already comes with 5 CALs


    --
    Phillip Windell
    www.wandtv.com

    The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, May 7, 2009
    #4
  5. Well, it's actually a server that offers mail services, to straighten out
    the technical terminology.

    You can download the demo version from Microsoft's site. The current demo is
    for Exchange 2007.

    HOWEVER. You must understand Active Directory first, in order to implement
    Exchange. This is because the user account database, and numerous other data
    that Exchange uses. Matter of fact, Exchange must alter Active Directory
    prior to installation, to accomodate the changes. This is a very huge topic,
    and there are separate newsgroups for each. On top of that, an understanding
    of DNS is required, because AD will not work if DNS is not implemented
    properly for its internal use only, and on top of that, an understanding of
    DNS on the internet is required in order to manipulate public records so
    others in the world can 'find' your mail server on your network. In
    addition, an understanding of your router and how to remap ports internally
    in order to receive mail, and this depends on if your internet provider will
    allow this type of traffic inbound because many block it in order to stop
    people from running servers on their network.

    Not trying to disuade you, but there's a learning curve that needs to be
    addressed before jumping in. I would suggest, that if you have this much
    time on your hands and have a few bucks to spend, to attend classes, and
    this type of stuff is not a simple how to use Windows or Outlook class,
    rather MSCE and MCITP classes that addresses the engineering level of
    Windows, basic Windows services, application services (such as Exchange,
    Active Directory), networking basics (TCPIP, DNS, firewalls, routing,
    subnetting, network infrastructure designs), etc.

    I hope that helps to steer you in the right direction.

    --
    Ace

    This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
    confers no rights.

    Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCSA Messaging, MCT
    Microsoft Certified Trainer


    For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please
    check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.

    "Efficiency is doing things right; effectiveness is doing the right
    things." - Peter F. Drucker
    http://twitter.com/acefekay
     
    Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer], May 7, 2009
    #5
  6. Forgot to mention,...Exchange requires an Active Directory Domain,...which
    requires a Domain Controller,...which requires another copy of the Server OS
    ($$$$)...which requires another Server($$$$).

    If you want Exchange to be on the same box as the DC then you should use it
    in a Virtual Machine,....or buy small business Server that is *designed* to
    have them on the same machine. SBS2003 is that last version os SBS "all on
    one box".

    The next version of SBS use three machines. They can all 3 be physical
    machines or it can be one physical machine and two virtual machines.

    I am not an "SBS guy",...if you want more details on SBS you need to ask
    people who specialize in SBS.

    --
    Phillip Windell
    www.wandtv.com

    The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, May 7, 2009
    #6

  7. Good point, SBS may be the better solution for him since everything is
    combined. However, I still believe there will be a huge learning curve to
    understand it, since it still runs AD, Exchange, and everything else on SBS.

    Ace
     
    Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer], May 7, 2009
    #7
  8. jaygreg

    Mel K. Guest

    Would being able to access the XP computer from the other two solve your
    dilemma? If so, then you just need to install a remote control program on
    the XP computer. Here are two options I would suggest:



    1.) If you have Windows XP Professional (not Home) on the XP computer,
    then just enable remote desktop. See
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsXp/using/mobility/getstarted/Remoteintro.mspx.
    The Vista computer already has the software needed to connect to remote
    desktop. I don't believe 95 would have that, but you should be able to
    download a version for it.

    2.) Install something like VNC. See
    http://realvnc.com/products/free/4.1/download.html. You'll need to install
    the "server" component on the XP computer and the client component on 95 and
    Vista.



    Note that the two options don't work exactly the same. With option 1, the XP
    desktop gets locked if you connect to it remotely. With option 2, anyone
    walking by can see what you're doing because the XP screen is not locked (at
    least not be default).



    On another note, someone commented that Outlook can only be used as a MAPI
    client. That is completely untrue. The full version of Outlook (from 2007 on
    back several versions) can be used as a MAPI, IMAP, or POP3 client.
     
    Mel K., May 7, 2009
    #8
  9. jaygreg

    jaygreg Guest

    I appreciate the description of the minefield that lies ahead if I choose to
    proceed with Exchange. I may take a class this Fall under the Senior Guest
    plan (free for Ohio residents ... if there's space available and the prof is
    agreeable - they always are). Sounds a little like eating soup with a fork
    though at this point; a lot of activity but little nourishment!

    Jeff and Phil introduced me to alternatives I was unaware of. I'll look at
    them later in the day. Thank you very much for your help. I may have a few
    more questions after I look at those links.
     
    jaygreg, May 8, 2009
    #9
  10. Good luck!

    There are also numerous books on the topics, including topics such as Active
    Directory, Exchange 2003 or Exchange 2007. If you want to go with SBS, which
    I think may be the better bet if you want to get into the server realm,
    there are books on that topic as well.

    Cheers!

    Ace
     
    Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer], May 8, 2009
    #10
  11. jaygreg

    jaygreg Guest

    I knew this sounded too go to be true, Mel. I've toyed with the XP (host)
    and the Vista (client) machines for an hour now. Finally stumbled upon this
    little gem in the FAQ section of the Remote Desktop Connection Help
    screen... "What is Remote Desktop Connection?":

    After listing all but Vista Ultimate as the Vista versions that can be used
    to connect to the host it goes on to say "You cannot use Remote Desktop
    Connection to connect to remote computers running Windows XP." I'd love to
    have someone here tell me I'm reading that wrong and give me a hint as to
    why I can't connect when I try. I've checked all the other requirements on
    both machines but... my final message on the Vista machine says:

    "REMOTE DESKTOP DISCONNECTED
    This computer can't connect to the remote computer. Try connecting again. If
    the problem continues, contact the owner of the remote computer or your
    network administrator."

    I set both machines to accept remote connects but changed that back to
    rejecting any attempts from machines running any version of Remote Desktop.
     
    jaygreg, May 8, 2009
    #11
  12. jaygreg

    Mel K. Guest

    Hmmm, I'm almost certain I've done that before, but I don't even use Vista
    anymore so I can't test that. I did, however, just test connecting to an XP
    Professional computer from Windows Server 2008 (which is built on the same
    code as Vista). According to
    http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1032776489, this should work fine
    if your version of XP is XP Professional.

    Are you sure you have Windows XP Professional (I did mention that you need
    Professional, not Home)? If you researched the issue and can't get it to
    work, then I'd say use VNC.
     
    Mel K., May 8, 2009
    #12
  13. jaygreg

    jaygreg Guest

    Microsoft Windows XP Professional version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build
    2600.

    I'll reread, Mel.
     
    jaygreg, May 9, 2009
    #13
  14. JayGreg,

    I use RDP from either or, and are able to connect back and forth. Matter of
    fact, I am on a Vista Ult laptop connected into my main Vist Ult workstation
    as we speak. I also connect to customer systems, whether they have XP Pro,
    Windows 2000, 2003 or 2008, whether here using Vista, or from another
    workstation using XP Pro.

    I don't use Home, so I can't comment on it, but many functionalities are not
    available in HOme.

    Ace
     
    Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer], May 9, 2009
    #14
  15. Update: There's light at the end of the tunnel! I read further on the XP and
    Vista Help menus, did some tweaking in the Systems folder and "bingo"; I got
    a Microsoft window asking for my user name and password. Recognizing this as
    an area where I can do myself lots of harm if I don't get it right (could
    lock myself out of what I can see now let alone what I'd like to see
    tomorrow), I chose to think about the discover while I cut the grass. Now
    I'm tired from cuttin' grass but I do have a plan for later this evening.
    Not having to cope with more than one person using these machines in my
    house, I simply set up each machine as I added them to the network over the
    years by assigning a user name but giving them no pass words. I now need to
    check each machine's User Account, get correct name and spelling, then
    assign PW's ... I guess. I googled this as well and found talk of software
    to retrieve PW's but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have need for that. I did
    see in an MS article a link on how to make a disc to recover PW's so I guess
    I'd better get into that as well before I proceed.

    I really appreciate the help all of you have given me. You've made this go a
    lot smoother than I'd expected. Though I'm not quite connected yet, I'm
    pretty confident I will be shortly. If anyone has any other comments or
    suggestions - cautions or warnings - please jump right in here. This Remote
    Desktop Connection looks like all I'll need to do the trick if it does what
    it says. If I can use the Vista machine to access email and calendars in
    Outlook 2003 on the XP machine, I'm gonna' pleased as punch!

    Jaygreg,

    I think they are talking about the type of connection allowed.

    Vista Biz and higher can connect to any XP Pro, but XP may not be able to
    connect to Vista. In the Remote Settings of Vista, you are given two
    options for a connection type. For XP connections, use the Allow connections
    from computer running any version.... If you were Vista to Vista, then you
    would select the other one.

    One must have a password for the user account.

    Vista Home Premium and lower and XP Home cannot be a host computer without
    a hack to Remote Desktop. Search for "Concurrent Remote Desktop Sessions in
    Windows XP SP3"

    One other option you might look at is Live Mesh from Microsoft which is
    still in beta, but works well. www.mesh.com

    If you want to include the Win 98 machine, then you will need to look at
    VNC or its derivatives.

    --

    Jeff


    I knew this sounded too go to be true, Mel. I've toyed with the XP
    (host)
    and the Vista (client) machines for an hour now. Finally stumbled upon
    this
    little gem in the FAQ section of the Remote Desktop Connection Help
    screen... "What is Remote Desktop Connection?":

    After listing all but Vista Ultimate as the Vista versions that can be
    used
    to connect to the host it goes on to say "You cannot use Remote Desktop
    Connection to connect to remote computers running Windows XP." I'd love
    to
    have someone here tell me I'm reading that wrong and give me a hint as
    to
    why I can't connect when I try. I've checked all the other requirements
    on
    both machines but... my final message on the Vista machine says:

    "REMOTE DESKTOP DISCONNECTED
    This computer can't connect to the remote computer. Try connecting
    again. If
    the problem continues, contact the owner of the remote computer or your
    network administrator."

    I set both machines to accept remote connects but changed that back to
    rejecting any attempts from machines running any version of Remote
    Desktop.

    ==========

    JayGreg,

    Sounds like you've broken the sound barrier! You're doing good. Keep in
    mind, you can do almost anything in an RDP session compared to being on the
    machine. Some things don't work the same, such as display properties, and
    other minor things, printing is a little different but almost transparent,
    etc. So apply common sense when remoted in as if you were on the actual
    machine. Don't be changing passwords remotely. Set them up locally, then
    test remotely.

    Keep up the good work!

    Ace
     
    Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer], May 9, 2009
    #15
  16. jaygreg

    jaygreg Guest

    Update! I'm writing from my Vista machine to the MS Office suite on the XP
    machine two floors up. I can't thank you folks enough for helping me out on
    this project that's haunted me for at least five years. When I finally got
    this machine a month and a half ago, I got serious about finding a solution.
    Simple RDC suits me fine right now. I haven't added the Win98SE machine yet
    but I will later in the week. I see that requires a download of the client
    software from MS. Thank you all for your help and suggestions.
     
    jaygreg, May 11, 2009
    #16
  17. You are very welcome. Enjoy your new found joy!

    Cheers!

    Ace
     
    Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer], May 11, 2009
    #17
  18. jaygreg

    Mel K. Guest

    Sometimes the simplest, and least expensive solution works better. There's
    no need for an Exchange server, etc as many people have replied. People just
    need to read the request carefully and think outside the box. You don't need
    a backhoe to dig a hole for a small flower.
     
    Mel K., May 12, 2009
    #18
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