I don´t understand why Microsoft could Name this a "Service Pack" (maybe why you need after applying

Discussion in 'Windows Small Business Server' started by Michael Muhlack, Jul 21, 2005.

  1. Hello,
    in our Company we´re Using SBS since Version 4.0 and before NT since 3.x.
    Over the years we where happy MS customers and therefore we where thinking
    about buying some new Tools like MS CRM...

    But since three days many things where changing...
    Never ever I had so much trouble like I had during this SP-Updates!
    First I had an Error during ISA-Upate. Then some Problems during SQL SP4.
    And now my companyweb is gone and it seems to be that I need a complete
    reinstall.
    How could it be, that MS tells in their commercials everywhere that SBS2003
    is
    the best Product for little companys wich need a good solution for their
    Workflow
    without having very much Knowledge (like an MCSE)?
    Most of my Problems during the last years I could fix with help from the
    people
    here in this Newsgroups, but this Problem seem to be for me the Overkill. :(

    We are a small company and I don´t know how to solve this all without
    letting
    our clients know, that we´re in big Trouble...

    But it seems to be that´s live...

    Regards,
    Mike
     
    Michael Muhlack, Jul 21, 2005
    #1
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  2. Michael Muhlack

    Matt Gibson Guest

    And you posted this here because?

    There's no question, there's no details...

    Matt Gibson - GSEC
     
    Matt Gibson, Jul 21, 2005
    #2
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  3. He's prob just voicing himself a little bit. Parts of the SBS platform are a
    bit frustrating w/o having a couple of Microsoft SBS books on hand, primarly
    for doing reinstallations, patches and other applications updates.

    I recently do a bit of voicing as well to the SBS development group after
    finding out that the SBS SVPs don't really support the ability of the SBS
    application as an 'All-In-One' for an SMBs. I know alot of SMBs are looking
    for an AIO to solve their issues, primarly to run an on-site external and
    internal website for e-commerce usage, Exchange for e-mail, and so forth.

    It seems, at least from my perspective that the SVPs are geared to having
    SBS primarly for internal use and that outsourcing should be done for
    anything customer related (i.e. e-commerce related web sites).

    If this is the case, then why they even market the SBS as having the
    functionality to do so?

    -- Michael
     
    MWE Computers Services, Jul 21, 2005
    #3
  4. Michael Muhlack

    Matt Gibson Guest

    The functionality is there, but the issue is more of a security, and uptime
    one.

    If you don't mind your website going down if your SBS server is down, and
    you are happy with the increased security risk that running an e-commerce
    site on a DC brings, feel free...you won't find anything in SBS itself
    stopping you.

    The SBS product can do almost anything you want it to...it's knowing what
    things it SHOULD be doing that take a bit of knowledge.

    Matt Gibson - GSEC
     
    Matt Gibson, Jul 21, 2005
    #4
  5. I could`nt say it better... ;)

    Here in my office was no one else and I am frustrated and have to shout out!
    ;)
    I did allready at other Messages:
    (Help!! Please!! Big Trouble after installing SQL (Sharepoint can´t connect
    to Database!))
     
    Michael Muhlack, Jul 21, 2005
    #5
  6. I don´t say anything against the product, I only don´t like the marketing of
    Microsoft;
    they are telling in their commercials that SBS is THE Sollution for everyone
    and everywhere
    the All-inclusive-Wonder wich is as easy to installing as every other
    Windows, but no one
    tells you that you have to pay for support if you are really in Trouble...
    And no one tells you, that this Product is much more complicated like
    Windows itself.
    If there would be free Telephone-Support from Microsoft it wouldn´t be a
    great Problem (for me),
    but there isn´t.
    And here are so many People arround wich are having all Problems after
    installing SP1 (many
    of them with the same thing than I: Sharepoint Services!) that I can´t
    believe that MS don´t
    support this via Phone, because they should be intrested in having fast
    sollutions!
    That´s all. If I would have my System running I would be happy again (like I
    was over
    many years with the Product!).

    Mike


    P.S.:
    Matt, a maybe stupid Question.... What does "GSEC" mean?
     
    Michael Muhlack, Jul 21, 2005
    #6
  7. Michael Muhlack

    David Elders Guest

    Whooaahh there. Appreciate you're frustrated by a non-working system but
    going off on one like this isn't warranted.
    They don't say that its the solution for everyone, everywhere in every
    situation - that's just plain ridiculous... MS have always had paid support
    as far as I'm aware so you being unaware of that is something you can't
    really hang on their door.
    Yes they do - its a product suite, not an individual product - its not just
    Windows, its Windows + Exchange + IIS + Sharepoint + Shared Fax + ISA,
    etc... obviously its going to be more complex than just plain Windows and
    doesn't pretend not to be. Through the wizards however, it *IS* a lot
    simpler to complete most of the set-up and day-to-day management tasks
    involved in these.
    Many of the problems experienced [and I include myself in this] are from not
    reading up fully beforehand and ensuring that the procedures are followed
    fully or correctly. MS do provide this community support forum free of
    charge remember so its hardly like they're leaving anyone out to dry. Its
    not just peer-to-peer in this NG, many MS staff also provide assistance.
    Perhaps you'd get more actual assistance with solving your problem if you
    spent your time detailing it as fully as possible so that people could
    actually help. As it stands you waited 22 minutes before going right off on
    one...

    Regards,


    David
     
    David Elders, Jul 21, 2005
    #7
  8. That´s not true; I can show you something from MS in German Magazines wich
    tells you,
    that this Product is even for companys wich have not IT-Specialists and
    where the chief is the Admin even if he don´t knew how to setup a Network...
    I´m not a bloody Beginner, but even not an IT-Specialists. Therefore
    I think I should be able to solve every Problem. In the Past I was able,
    but since this Service Pack... :(
    And I remember that Service under Windows NT was free! I had some
    calls with MS. And in the Beginning of SBS4.x they made money with Service.
    After the Update to SBS 2000 Service was free for a while and now
    they making money again. But if you buy such a package, there is nothing
    written about money-for-service. If you bought sometimes ago Office
    or Windows XP you got maybe some free services for that product and
    because of this your are maybe thinking it´s the same with SBS2003 if
    you are new to that Product...

    I know this. And that was the reason for us buying SBS 4.x, 2000 and 2003
    over the years again and again... and we where lucky with that.
    But a little bit more support could us help make much luckier. ;)

    Yes it´s true. And I am very thankful for that! But in our case of the
    Problem;
    we are a little company and don´t have much money to pay support and also
    don´t have much time to wait for support over this group (I have written
    some Messages three days ago and no one replyed yet. I don´t want to rant
    against it, because it´s free here...), because our few clients we have,
    don´t
    care if we have technical problems! They are changing us to an other
    company.
    And we would be lost and not be able to buy next Version of SBS
    and MS would not sell us a next Version and therefore MS have the same
    Problem as we have... ;)

    Yes, you are right, but if you look into this group you´ll find much more
    Messages from me, wich are two and more days old and unreplyed yet.
    I´m very happy about every help I could get from this group and if I´m
    frustrated
    it has nothing to do with this group and the people who are helping me here!
    It has only to do with the way MS as a company treats their clients (us).

    Best wishes,
    Mike
     
    Michael Muhlack, Jul 22, 2005
    #8
  9. Michael Muhlack

    Gary Karasik Guest

    If it's any comfort, I completely agree with you.

    GaryK

     
    Gary Karasik, Jul 22, 2005
    #9
  10. The do support this via phone. You call PSS.. if your server had issues
    due to the application of a service pack it IS a free call.

    Call PSS Michael.
     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], Jul 22, 2005
    #10
  11. This isn't a service pack for a clueless small business owner to which
    the marketing machine says this platform is for.

    As I've said in the past... I will do everything in my power to let the
    powers that be know that this should never ever happen again.

    Issues with this service pack are a free call.

    That said I applied it to a production machine and did not lose my
    Sharepoint [on several installs]


     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], Jul 22, 2005
    #11
  12. Call PSS Michael. It will be a free call.

     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], Jul 22, 2005
    #12
  13. In Michael Muhlack <> typed:

    I know what you mean, but this is not just an MS problem. Look at computer
    advertising. Even today, personal computing is *not* as easy as it sounds,
    and a server OS is *not* meant to be installed by the inexperienced. This is
    just a plain fact.
    But nobody says "it's free" either....
    NB: It's an all-in-one domain controller and Exchange server...not a
    workstation OS. And even *those* require some degree of skill to install and
    configure properly.

    They couldn't possibly afford to provide free technical support....nor can
    your car manufacturer. However, heed Susan's advice (and that of others) and
    call Product Support Services -
    It's still a fine product - don't dismiss it because of a bad service pack
    experience. I haven't seen this myself. I understand your frustration, but
    this newsgroup is designed to help you resolve technical problems, so I
    suggest you post details of the things you're having trouble with, and
    perhaps someone can help you resolve them.
     
    Lanwench [MVP - Exchange], Jul 22, 2005
    #13
  14. Michael Muhlack

    David Elders Guest

    Hi Michael,

    Sorry if I ranted.
    It's still not for "everyone". Also, as Susan correctly says the Service
    Pack *is* something that isn't nearly as simple or straightforward as it
    might reasonably be expected to be, regardless of anyone's knowledge or
    experience. I think MS will get plenty of adverse feedback on this and
    likely address this for future SP's... PS - I don't think that its
    reasonable for you [or anyone else on the planet for that matter] to think
    that you're likely to be able to solve "every" problem. There are always
    going to be things that crop up that are outwith our own capabilities...
    I recall that there was something like 2 free support incidents included
    with purchases of SBS4.5 [can't remember about 2000]. That said, its easy
    enough to check beforehand as to whether support is free or not for a
    product before you purchase it rather than just assuming its so...
    Well, more of anything would always be something good wouldn't it? :)
    If clients are leaving your company that surely cannot be purely on the
    basis of your problems with SBS? There would have to be other unrelated
    causes for this surely that are outwith the scope of this newsgroup or
    discussion?
    As per Susan's mails, call PSS - Service Pack issues are a free support
    call.

    Best wishes and hope you get your problems resolved.

    Regards,


    David
     
    David Elders, Jul 22, 2005
    #14
  15. Hi David,


    Yes, of course... :)))


    Yes, but the Problem is I wouldn´t have any Problems with our clients if we
    would
    not run out of time. And we would not run out of time, if we would not have
    any
    Problem with SP1... :(


    Wow! That I didn´t know yet, and maybe someone at MS didn´t know, too.
    Because my Partner did call two days ago the Hotline and has been told,
    that there is nothing to do without paying. With this Information I can go
    further
    to contact MS!

    Thank you very much!
    Mike
     
    Michael Muhlack, Jul 22, 2005
    #15
  16. Hi Susan,

    Ah. Wow! Thank you for this important Information!!!!
    Maybe now they could help me loose my Problems... :))
    Two days ago my Partner called the Hotline allready, and he has been told,
    that SBS Support isn´t free, but maybe he didn´t say it´s about SBS SP...
    I ´ll try again.
    Thank you very much!!!
    (Maybe at evening I´m a happy MS Custumer again?!) :))
    Best regards,
    Mike

     
    Michael Muhlack, Jul 22, 2005
    #16
  17. Michael Muhlack

    Ray Collins Guest

    Just be prepared for them to take weeks to figure it out.
    so far 3 weeks and counting ....
     
    Ray Collins, Jul 22, 2005
    #17
  18. Michael Muhlack

    Ray Collins Guest

    Don't hold your breath waiting for M$ to change!
    Over a decade ago after a bad service pack they promised to never ever
    introduce new features in a service pack again.


    Short corporate memories huh !
     
    Ray Collins, Jul 22, 2005
    #18
  19. In Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]
    Just remembered this:

    If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer
    industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got
    1,000 miles to the gallon."

    In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press
    release stating:

    If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be
    driving cars with the following characteristics:

    1) For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

    2) Every time they repainted the lines in the road you would
    have to buy a new car.

    3) Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no
    reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close
    all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the
    windows before you could continue. For some reason you would accept this.

    4) Occasionally, executing a manoeuvre such as a left turn
    would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which
    case you would have to reinstall the engine.

    5) Only one person at a time could use the car unless you
    bought "CarNT", but then you would have to buy more seats.

    6) Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was
    reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would
    only run on five percent of the roads.

    7) The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights
    would all be replaced by a single "General Protection Fault" warning
    light.

    8) New seats would force everyone to have the same sized butt.

    9) The airbag system would ask "are you sure?" before deploying.

    10) Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock
    you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the
    door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

    11) GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe
    set of Rand McNally road maps (Now a GM subsidiary) even though
    they neither need nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would
    immediately cause the cars performance to diminish by 50%
    or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice
    Department.

    12) Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have
    to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would
    operate in the same manner as the old car.

    13) You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn off the
    engine.

    --
    Mariëtte Knap
    Microsoft SBS-MVP
    One of the Magical M&M's
    www.smallbizserver.net
    Take part in SBS forum:
    http://www.smallbizserver.net/Default.aspx?tabid=53
     
    Mariette Knap [SBS MVP], Jul 22, 2005
    #19
  20. What are your issues?

     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], Jul 22, 2005
    #20
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