Install win7 VPC on a Hyper-V win7 VM

Discussion in 'Virtual PC' started by moondaddy, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. moondaddy

    moondaddy Guest

    Is it possible to install windows 7 virtual PC on a hyper-v windows 7 vm?
    In installed the WindowsXPMode_en-us.exe first and then installed
    Windows6.1-KB958559-x86.msu as instructed from the VPC home page. but I
    have 2 issues.

    1) when I try to run WinXP mode, I get the error msg saying "... requires
    hardware-assisted virtualization..."
    - note: I have a Intel 64 bit quad core machine running win srvr 2008
    R2 hyper-V, and I setup a Win7 32 pro VM for this test.

    2) there is no icon to start VPC. as a matter of fact, when I go too the
    install dir in progman, there are only 2 iso files and no application files.
    its like VPC was never installed.

    Where did I go wrong? Did VPC install and I don't know where to find it?
    Is my problem with running the 32 bit version of win7 pro instead of a 64
    bit version?

    Thanks.
     
    moondaddy, Oct 22, 2009
    #1
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  2. moondaddy

    Robert Comer Guest

    No, it's not possible. Windows 7 Virtual PC (Windows Virtual PC is
    what it is called now) has to have direct access to the processor for
    its' virtualization, so it can't run in a VM.
     
    Robert Comer, Oct 22, 2009
    #2
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  3. moondaddy

    VanguardLH Guest

    Isn't the point of Hyper-V to let you run multiple guests (VMs)? Why
    would you load one instance of Windows 7 in a VM under Hyper-V to then
    try to load in that instance of Windows another VM? Why not create
    another VM under Hyper-V and run that one as the 2nd instance of Win7
    (assuming you actually have the 2nd license)?
     
    VanguardLH, Oct 23, 2009
    #3
  4. moondaddy

    moondaddy Guest

    Because I'm wanting to do away with the windows 2008 r2 OS and use windows 7
    instead
     
    moondaddy, Oct 23, 2009
    #4
  5. That still doesn't make sense. Hyper-V is a VM solution, so why do
    you need to run another VM program inside of it?

    Hyper-V doesn't require an OS, it works outside the OS, its a
    hypervisor.

    the Hyper-V product is designed for a different use than VPC.
     
    Steve Jain [MVP], Oct 23, 2009
    #5
  6. moondaddy

    VanguardLH Guest

    Hyper-V is its own OS. You install it. You then configure VMs that
    *it* loads (much like IBM's VM operating system in which you can run
    VSE, MVS, other CICS, or whatever it supports for guests). Windows 2008
    isn't involved. Just install Hyper-V and then add whatever guests (VMs)
    you want it to manage (which can all be running concurrently but which
    might mean you need to ensure you have the licenses for those concurrent
    instances).

    Or is the Windows 2008 server that you are trying to get rid of the
    Hyper-V Server 2008? That means you are trying to instead use Windows 7
    as the host OS and then run other instances of Windows 7 as guests (if
    you have the licenses for them). Just install Windows 7 in the same
    partition where was Hyper-V installed (select to format the partition
    when you install Windows 7) and the format wipes away Hyper-V in that
    partition.

    Hyper-V is designed to load first and by the hypervisor for each guest
    OS that you run atop of it. You don't need to load an OS to then load
    the hypervisor to load the guest. You just load the hypervisor which
    loads the guests.

    VirtualPC:
    Load Windows -> Load VPC -> Load guests

    Hyper-V
    Load Hyper-V -> Load guests

    Here is a diagram showing hierachy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Viridian_Architecture.svg

    Hyper-V is a role provided by Windows 2008 Server. Actually, as of Oct
    2008, Hyper-V is a separate variant of Windows Server 2008 (it isn't a
    full Windows 2008 Server so now it's called "Hyper-V Server 2008"); see
    http://www.microsoft.com/hyper-v-server/en/us/default.aspx. Similarly,
    Windows XP Professional x64 is built on Windows 2003 Server but it isn't
    the full blown Windows 2003 Server product with a Windows XP skin. If
    you don't want Windows 2008 Server then you also don't want Hyper-V. So
    asking anything about Hyper-V is irrelevant if you are looking to leave
    Windows 2008 Server and instead load Windows (some supported host OS
    version) and then load VPC atop of that and finally get around to
    loading your guests.

    If you have the hardware needed to run Hyper-V (and the disk space and
    memory for the guests, I would think Hyper-V would be the better
    solution.

    If using Hyper-V, there's no point in using VirtualPC. You question
    packs way too many terms together without any boundaries to discern just
    WHAT you are asking.

    "Is it possible to install windows 7 virtual PC on a hyper-v windows 7
    vm?"

    Does that mean:
    - Can you run Windows 7 as a guest on Hyper-V? Yes.
    - Can you run Hyper-V as a guest on Windows 7? No.
    - Can you run Hyper-V as a guest of VPC running in Windows 7? No.
    - Why is Windows 7 mentioned TWICE in your question? There is no such
    thing as "Hyper-V Windows 7".
    - Does "windows 7 virtual pc" (without the proper capitalization) refer
    to the Windows XP compatibility mode in Windows 7 (if you have the
    requisite hardware to support it)? Or do you intend to run VirtualPC
    2007 on Windows 7?

    Your question is so garbled that no one know what you meant to ask.
     
    VanguardLH, Oct 24, 2009
    #6
  7. moondaddy

    moondaddy Guest

    OK thanks. My goal was to get rid of using WnSrvr 2008 R2 (as a work
    station) because of 3rd party software licensing issues and
    incompatibilities. I used WnSrvr 08 R2 so I could get Hyper-V (which I'm
    now seeing as a poor understanding of Hyper-V on my part).

    Vanguard's email helps to clarify things as well. My goal is to have the
    ability to run Windows 7 as my normal workstation OS where I work all day
    long. From this Windows 7 OS I will have a 3rd party backup utility which I
    will be able to do bare metal backups as well as differential backups of my
    OS and data drives (which includes backing up the various VM files).
    Additionally, I need to have the ability to have many different VMs to test
    the software I develop.

    Therefore, based on Vanguard's and your response, installing Hyper-V first
    on a clean partition sounds like the way to go except for one caveat: I don't
    have a good backup solution which would need to run from the Hyper-V OS so
    it could backup 'everything'.

    Thanks to the both of you for your input. I will have to think this through
    some more.
     
    moondaddy, Oct 24, 2009
    #7
  8. moondaddy

    moondaddy Guest

    Thanks for the good info. The confusion comes from my poor understanding of
    Hyper-V and how things can be configured. Please see my response above to
    Steve.
     
    moondaddy, Oct 24, 2009
    #8
  9. moondaddy

    VanguardLH Guest

    In your other post, you mentioned some licensing issues. Do you have a
    valid Windows 2008 Server license (so you can use its Hyper-V role)? Or
    did you lose Windows 2008 Server and am now looking for a means of
    continuing to test under multiple operating systems?

    One way to test under multiple operating systems is to multi-boot (no,
    not that dual-boot crap that Microsoft provides but actually using a
    multiboot manager, like GAG from sourceforge.net). If you don't want to
    use a multiboot manager to decide from which partition on which drive to
    load the OS in there, you could go with drive bays where you can slide
    in different hard drives, each with a different OS that you would boot.
    There are lots of variants of this multiboot or swap scheme; however,
    you are running only 1 operating system at a time on the host.

    If you want multiple *concurrent* guests (VMs) running at the same time
    (and don't or can't use Hyper-V) then you'll need to load an OS which is
    the host and then run a VM manager (VMM), like VirtualPC or VMWare
    Server (which includes USB support), and then use the VMM to concurrent
    load multiple guests. I'm not sure that VPC lets you assign a
    particular core in a multi-core processor but VMWare Server does.
    You'll also need to think about how much memory each concurrently loaded
    guest will need so it is useful (since it will already be slower when
    managed by a VMM under a software-emulated hardware environment).

    As far as backing up goes, I would think you would use whatever backup
    solution best suits the guest that you are running. If you have imaging
    backup software that runs under Windows 2008 Server or under Hyper-V
    2008 Server then just have it save images of the partitions in which the
    guests are stored (you might want to halt/pause/stop those guests to
    make sure they aren't changing when you want to save an image of their
    partition). Obviously if you include those partitions in the backup of
    your host (Hyper-V) then the files in the partitions for the guests get
    included, too. If the guests cannot be stopped or paused, like they are
    being shared, then you might have to look at backup solutions that run
    within those guests. I haven't looked into what enterprise backup
    solutions are available that are designed to run on Hyper-V and capture
    images of multiple current guests that are running.

    VirtualPC doesn't provide for snapshots (as does VMWare but their free
    Server version only gives you 1 snapshot) where you could revert the VM
    back to a clean baseline image. You can save the folder where you
    create the VMs for VPC, VMWare Server, VirtualBox, or whatever you
    choose to use, or the partitions where you run the guest under Hyper-V.
    VMWare Server gives you 1 snapshot to which you can revert (and undo all
    your changes). VirtualBox, I believe, gives you more than 1 snapshot.
    However, when using VirtualPC, you can create a baseline VM and then use
    its hard disk (.vhd) file as a base for other VMs you create but have
    them use a differential VHD that is based off that baseline VM. That
    is, you create your pristine or base-level VM. You then create other
    VMs but their virtual drives are differential hard drives where you
    specify the baseline's .vhd file. Then when you make changes in the
    test VMs, you can revert them to the baseline simply by deleting their
    ..vhd and going through the disk wizard for them to create a new
    differential virtual drive based again on that baseline .vhd file. For
    example, I have a "Windows XP Pro (REFERENCE)" guest defined in VPC. I
    only touch it when I want to apply updates to it (that will be present
    in all VMs that use it as a baseline). I also have a "Windwows XP Pro
    (TEST)" guest whose virtual drive is a differential drive based on the
    REFERENCE .vhd file. That way during testing, I'm not putting my
    reference .vhd at risk. If you ever update that baseline .vhd used as a
    reference for the differential drives of other guests, you'll get a
    warning when you start those dependent guests. I haven't bothered
    checking what happens if I ignored the warning. Instead it reminds me
    to stop that dependent guest, delete its .vhd file, and then go through
    the disk wizard for that guest to create a new differential virtual
    drive using the baseline .vhd as a reference.
     
    VanguardLH, Oct 25, 2009
    #9
  10. moondaddy

    Steve Guest

    My 2 cents:

    The reason I would like to run Virtual PC in Win7 on HyperV is for XP mode.
    I want to virtualize my instance of Win7 on HyperV but I also have some
    software that I need to run in XP mode. For instance I want to run the
    Exchange 2003 management pack but it won't run on Win7.

    I really wish they would have made Virtual PC more versatile.
     
    Steve, Nov 19, 2009
    #10
  11. moondaddy

    Bill Grant Guest

    Windows VPC for windows 7 requires that the host machine supports
    hardware virtualization (just as Hyper-V does). An instance of Windows 7
    running in a virtual machine under Hyper-V cannot possibly do that, since it
    is running on a virtual machine, not a physical machine with hardware
    virtualization.
     
    Bill Grant, Nov 19, 2009
    #11
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