Internet Explorer 7--Would like to remove it

Discussion in 'Internet Explorer' started by Richard4597, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. « The biggest complaint from users goes like this:

    ANGRY phone call from a user.... »

    This sort of lengthy invented dialogs has been overused, has never matched real world experience, and doesn't prove anything - unless what I wrote about some bad IT people so far under the average users that their only way to feel better is inventing on others the extreme failures they can't find anywhere else than in themselves. The competent ones in IT services don't receive such dialogs - and don't need to invent any.

    I guess you won't read or think this far, but I try however - just in case. Real world is like this:

    - First, you have 90% of people who are thinking before acting. You rarely read these 90% on forums, where the instantness would make their posts look late. When their PWD gets rejected, it is generally the site's fault, yet they 1st think of their side, and in the rare such cases, correct it. And when they are on the "Help" desk and receive a similar call, they are open and friendly and do "help" the other - and everything is done in seconds, with a gentle smile on each end.

    - Second you have the 5% who act before thinking. These are the "Fast Posters", who post faster than they can think. The instantness of the forums gives those 5% a huge advantage, making them fill 95% of the sapce on forums. They much more often fail (in writing their PWD or elsewhere) but don't remember. And when on the other end (the "Help" desk), they feel so happy to find another in error, that they get arrogant, disparaging and scorning towards their poor fellows.

    Now don't expect any of those Fast Posters populating the "Help" desks and other IT services, to see that the PWD and CAPS system (and the "Help" desk system BTW) needs a fix: thinking of helping others or of improving something, is genetically out of their reach.

    Paris, Mon 20 Nov 2006 17:55:00 +0100


    ----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
    From: "Max Burke" <mlvburke@%$%#@.nz>
    Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general
    Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/
    Sent: Mon 20 Nov 2006 22:01:27 +1300 (09:01:27 GMT)
    Subject: Re: When they don't understand each other, the program has to adapt, not the user
    No, what YOU posted was/is ranting.
    An opinion based on 18 year career in system and user support. What do you
    base YOUR opinion on?

    The biggest complaint from users goes like this:

    ANGRY phone call from a user....

    *This F*&&^%$$ computer is BROKEN, my password doesn't work anymore, I've
    tried putting it in over and over again and this F&*&^^%%#$#%$ computer
    keeps saying it's WRONG!!!!!*
    *It ISN'T WRONG!!!! IT's THey SAME PASSWORD I HAVE BEEN USING FOR
    F^&^^%$$##@ YEARS!!!!!

    Sysytem support first question:
    Is your CAP LOCK KEY ON?

    Stunned silence from the user.
    Then in a very small quiet voice they say "Do I EVER feel stupid. I'm so
    sorry......."

    Systems support:
    OK Turn OFF your caps lock key; Is It off?
    OK here is a tempoary password that you can use to log on and enter your own
    password again....

    [Next call /see above]

    Over 90% of system and help desk calls are users having problems with their
    password and over 90% of those password related calls are down to the user
    accidentally haveing the caps lock key on and significant percentage are
    repeat calls from the same users haveing that exact same problem time and
    time again...

    Now if they can stuff something as simple as entering their password how do
    you think they get on with more complex uses of computers and the software
    that runs on said computers....
    Then YOU dont have a clue about how easy it is for users to create problems for themselves when using a computer and the software running on it.

    snip rest

    I could also mention that the way your posts are formated in this forum is also wrong but I wont....

    ;-)
    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke


    ----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
    From: "Michel Merlin" <>
    Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general
    Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/
    Sent: Mon 20 Nov 2006 01:56:10 +0100 (00:56:10 GMT)
    Subject: When they don't understand each other, the program has to adapt, not the user

    Here as everywhere else it is apparently allowed to disparage users without reason, but not to say something on IT staff - or it is called "ranting".

    « 90% of computer problems are *IN FACT* user problems »

    Your opinion, fine. Mine is oppositely:

    « When an user and a program don't understand each other, the program is faulty and must be changed, not the user. »

    This has been my policy for decades of writing entire big applications (One example: an entire 2D-CAD system for designing high speed infrastructure layout, like TGVs and highways, from redoing entirely Fresnel theory to make Fresnel Integrals faster, more precise, on a much wider domain, hence more reliable; to designing the stickers on medias; with in the middle, a new file system, a new system for graphics I/O, all the interface and documentation, and all it takes to make a *friendly and reliable* system. Plenty similar examples in 2D and 3D CAD and modeling, numerical analysis, structural analysis, time system, ....), and has proven highly more efficient than the usual "ranting" (your word, but reverted into the accurate way) of IT persons dropping their own faults onto users.

    Programs are made by humans, and have had just a few decades of evolution; humans were made by God, and have had a million years evolution; hence when humans and programs fail to understand each other, it's more reasonable IMO to decide that the program is the faulty and must be changed, than the humans. Unless for bad programmers, who find too hard to make those changes in that program, hence who need to drop the fault onto the humans.

    Paris, Mon 20 Nov 2006 01:56:10 +0100


    ----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
    From: "Max Burke" <mlvburke@%$%#@.nz>
    Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general
    Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/
    Sent: Mon 20 Nov 2006 10:26:59 +1300 (Sun 19 Nov 21:26:59 GMT)
    Subject: Re: Stupid customers! Let's get rid of them!

    My Maintenance schedule for my computers takes about 2 hours a week of my time( 10-15 minutes a day for daily backups) and 50 - 60 minutes a week for weekly housekeeping. And guess what, I can still use the computer for what I want to use it for while the backups and housekeeping programs are running....

    snip the ranting....

    When solving peoples computer problems the starting point to finding the source and cause of the problems is ALWAYS with the user and what they are doing [wrong].
    90% of computer problems are *IN FACT* user problems.
    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke


    ----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
    From: "Michel Merlin" <>
    Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general
    Message: Sent: Sun 19 Nov 2006 18:19:20 +0100 (17:19:20)
    Subject: Stupid customers! Let's get rid of them!

    « I'm surprised that more people aren't aware of imaging options by now »

    Of course we, the highly knowledgeable and wise people populating these NGs, know all the backup tools and have each our own habits using a compound of Ghost, Retrospect, Drive Image, True Image, Backup Exec, to name just a few - and certainly use them constantly and wisely (I am quite sure you do).

    The problem is, there are also a few other weird people who are doing something else on their PCs than maintaining and tweaking it; some even write mail, music, poetry, run a company, mount movies, watch maps, and so on,and most important, do their work. Those stupid people same way assume MS staff are accordingly doing their own work, hence they don't waste time visiting Newsgroups, and when seeing an update proposed by MS (the biggest official software company) on their MU site (the official site for Updating everything Microsoft), they will stupidly assume this update is done correctly as implicitly promised (through advertizements and pricing level) and doesn't need prior backup. Hence their disappointment when an Update doesn't work as advertized.

    Buying Microsoft products and believing MS is doing what it has been paid for... Stupid people! (at least this seems to be what MS staff and "volunteers" are thinking about their users).

    Paris, Sun 19 Nov 2006 18:19:20 +0100


    ----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
    From: "Spender" <>
    Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general
    Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/
    Sent: Thu 16 Nov 2006 16:51:54 GMT
    Subject: Re: Internet Explorer 7--Would like to remove it

    You'll find the answer in other replies.

    But in the future... Use Symantec Ghost to image your system before installing *anything*. If you don't like the results of an installation, you just restore the image and all is well. It's one of the best butt-saving pieces of software ever written.

    I'm surprised that more people aren't aware of imaging options by now.


    ----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
    From: "Richard4597" <>
    Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general
    Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/
    Sent: Thu 16 Nov 2006 08:12:01 -0800 (16:12:01 GMT)
    Subject: Internet Explorer 7--Would like to remove it

    I recently loaded IE7 into my system on Tuesday and I am seriously unhappy with how unuser friendly it is. Can someone tell me how i can find IE6 and download it back into my system. Thanks
     
    Michel Merlin, Nov 20, 2006
    #21
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  2. Richard4597

    xfile Guest

    90% of computer problems are *IN FACT* user problems.

    In a way, it is. But the question is - Who is the intended user? Are
    computers still designed for techie and nerds? Are you still living in the
    70s?

    I thought for a while that the industry has come out from the myth and
    finally realized that computers (hardware and software) SHOULD be designed
    for and used by regular folks and why would the user need to know where to
    clean the temp files and so on which should be done by the programs and OS?

    You can continue to blame it's user's fault and discourage them to use
    unless they spend the same amount of time, if not more, like you as they
    have no better or more important things to do in their life, and eventually,
    you would get what you wanted. The bad news is - you and millions of others
    like you would also loss your job :)

    Finally, MS was the only company that I thought it grabbed the concept of
    "user friendly" and "usability", but unfortunately, based on the recent
    developments of its many products, it just lost the edge and went back to
    the 70s when the industry was dominated by a bunch of nerds who thought they
    would be the only ones qualified to use computers.


     
    xfile, Nov 22, 2006
    #22
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  3. Richard4597

    Max Burke Guest

    xfile scribbled:
    They are designed for users who dont have (and more importantly) dont NEED
    to have a 'techie' knowledge of how computers or computer programs work.
    Hundreds of millions of 'non computer literate' people all over the world
    are successfully using computers at home, work, etc...
    Most problems these users have with their computers are the WAY they are
    using them, NOT that there is a bug in the computer or software that is
    preventing them doing what they want to do.
    No. Are you?
    They are for the most part.
    Why should a car owner need to know how to check the oil, radiator, battery,
    tyre pressure, lights in their car?
    Like all complex technology coumputers requrie regular user maintenance. It
    takes me a bout 15 minutes a day to do daily 'housekeeping', about an hour a
    week for weekly 'house keeping' and about 2 hours a month for monthly
    'housekeeping.' Most of that is running daily, weekly, and monthly backups
    which can be run will I'm using the computer..
    When it is a user *PROBLEM* (not a user fault) then you need to educate the
    user, not say it's a computer bug or badly designed software....
    Helping users solve they problems doesn't/shouldn't discourage them at all.
    If you do discourage them then it's your problem to learn how to handle
    users and their problems...
    I guess that is why Microsoft, Windows, MS Office, IE, etc are STILL the
    most used software programs on the whole planet huh......
     
    Max Burke, Nov 22, 2006
    #23
  4. Richard4597

    xfile Guest

     
    xfile, Nov 22, 2006
    #24
  5. Richard4597

    xfile Guest

    They are designed for users who dont have (and more importantly) dont NEED
    Really? Please read the instructions for how to install IE 7, just for
    example.
    Really? Hundred of millions of people are using computers around the world.
    But how do you know they are happily and successfully using it? Care for
    some sources of evidence?
    So what is the RIGHT way for using it? For example, most people who are
    having problems here were following instructions provided by Automatic
    Update. I don't have any problems because I DID NOT follow the instructions
    and I knew IE 7 is more than just a browser and is integrated to the system
    files so I did some extra steps.
    Who told you that? You must be a mechanic. I've been driving for more than
    20 years and own more than a dozen of cars but never have done anything like
    that except sending them for regular maintenance.

    I am a car owner and driver but not a mechanic. I respect and trust their
    professional but it's not something that I want to be. And most people just
    want to be a computer user but not to be an engineer or techies.
    Complex technology? LOL. Personal computers are complex technologies? You
    must be living in the 70s. Obviously, you have no idea for what kind of
    technologies employed by, se, air bag, ABS, fuzzy air conditioning system,
    and so on. Do you do housecleaning for every appliance you own, and by the
    way, they all have complex technologies in it. Do you take pilot lesson
    before taking a flight? Maybe you do, because that's your logics. LOL.

    And complex technology does not equal to difficult-to-use/learn. LOL. The
    best of the best put complex things into simple logics. The worst of worst
    put simple things into complicated issues. Which one is you? Don't bother
    to answer, as you already did.
    Yes, NOW it is the largest software company in the world, as many companies
    once were but you wouldn't know companies can rise and fall within just a
    few years because you are too busy in the server room for doing all the
    maintenance. For its success, it has its own credits for the past works
    (but past doesn't necessary represent the present and the future), but it's
    also largely credited to the incompetence of Apple and Linux supporters.

    PS: I was in the IT industry for almost 20 years and still work in the
    related industry, but I have never ever blamed user for any problems. If
    they have any problem, that means we are not doing a good job for preventing
    it from happening. Just FYI, I felt this level of technologies is not
    "complex" and "challenging" enough plus I had to educate people over and
    over again for the right mindset, so I departed :).

    Happy Thanksgiving! Next time when you want to blame users, think about who
    made your turkey dinner possible!
     
    xfile, Nov 22, 2006
    #25
  6. We've heard the argument, relative to IE7, that Microsoft is programming
    for the lower to middle qualified computer user. IF that is true just
    how do they expect those low end users to have even a clue how to wade
    through the myriad of reg hacks, policy changes, install problems, other
    cures, fixes and work-arounds?
     
    Dr. Heywood Floyd, Nov 22, 2006
    #26
  7. Richard4597

    Max Burke Guest

    xfile scribbled:
    Well gee, the instructions I read are Run the install program. What
    instructions did you read?
    Because they are, and the world runs on the efforts of these hundreds of
    millions of users each and every day....
    They way it was DESIGNED to be used. DUUUUHHHH!
    And you're still having problems? Why?
    It's in car owners manuals. RTFM....
    No I'm not.
    But I do know how to do basic maintenance on a car AND a computer. (and the
    software that runs on it)
    So you pay someone to do it for you.
    You dont have to be a computer engineer or a techie to own, use, and
    maintain a computer. Unless of course you're running Linux/OSS.... ;-)
    Yes.

    snip the foming at the mouth ranting....
    Who saifd it does? I didn't.

    Snip more ranting...
    And it's present and future works.....
    One thing we can agree on 100%

    Then you haven't learned much have you.
    DUUUUHHHH
     
    Max Burke, Nov 23, 2006
    #27
  8. Richard4597

    Max Burke Guest

    Dr. Heywood Floyd scribbled:
    Who did you hear that argument from? (cites, links, etc?)
    Because it's a BS argument IMHO.
     
    Max Burke, Nov 23, 2006
    #28
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