IP Config with 2 NICs Wizard dont work, Static dont work!

Discussion in 'Windows Small Business Server' started by jd, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. jd

    jd Guest

    Well here I am, 3rd time lucky and alls well with internal and external.
    Theres still a view weirdness going on like during setup not auto logging in
    and then upon completion it did auto login once! bizarre.

    Interestingly I note the internal adapter preffered DNS is a loopback
    127.0.0.1 as I would have expected.

    Whether my company will migrate to SBS is yet to be seen. I have to say that
    all my experiences with MS Server03 and SBS are suggesting its just to
    risky!

    My first attempt at running SBS was ruined when I uninstalled AD, clearly
    SBS simply cant cope with any manipulation. As when I reinstalled AD it all
    went belly up.

    So I have a test: Ive aquired a full SBS license which should arrive from MS
    soon and new fast PC (yes it takes 5 hours to install SBS - 3 of which is
    AD!) and if I cant migrate my settings on this trial SBS to the new SBS,
    then its going in the BIN!

    Off now to if open relay is default like the other MS mailserver offerings
    ;)

    Sorry, how do I get the text out of c:? for the ipconfig?

    latters!

    JD

     
    jd, Jan 14, 2006
    #1
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  2. jd

    jd Guest

    One NIC Is WAN the other is LAN

    But SBS refuses to configure them with the wizard claim's network setup
    error

    Ive tried manual static IPs to no avail.

    My setup is simple, I have a dedicated ADSL Ethernet modem with IP of
    192.168.1.10
    and a LAN router of 192.168.1.20

    Both have DHCP disabled.

    The SBS was clean, no errors, the only addition was the 2nd NIC.

    Is there anyway to bypass SBS wizards? It seems from experimentation that
    directly administering the NICs does not update the various WAN/LAN
    application interfaces.... ie I can't browse the Web.

    Why is the Internet Connection wizard in Server Management reporting a
    Network Setup err in any event???

    Are their logs for these wizards? Ive looked in the usual
    systemmanagement/logs but cant see anything likely.
     
    jd, Jan 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. Look at the diagrams at: (the text is mostly for SBS 2000)
    http://www.smallbizserver.net/Default.aspx?tabid=151

    Does this describe your setup?
    Can you please post an ipconfig /all for the server?

    I don't understand "dedicated ADSL Ethernet modem with IP of 192.168.1.10
    and a LAN router of 192.168.1.20". Normally (at least in the US), the ADSL
    modem plugs into a router's WAN port and then the external NIC on the SBS
    plugs into a port on the router. The ADSL modem IP address would be a
    public address rather than a private one.

    What make/modem of ADSL modem and router do you have?
     
    Merv Porter [SBS-MVP], Jan 15, 2006
    #3
  4. jd

    jd Guest

    thanks for quick post! Ive been at this 48hrs

    Yes the diagram is correct and im configured nearly the same apart from my
    SBS internal-nic has gateway of ip to the internal router (im upgrading to
    SBS so all clients currently connect & gateway through the "internal router"
    which has it OWN adsl connect).

    I will clear the SBS "internal" NIC gateway "field"

    I can see why your confused with me having 2 adsl routers, but its so I can
    send you this post!!!

    Ive not yet added the clients (inc this pc) to the SBS AD. Interestingly i
    can ping the SBS by name and IP but not the other way round, why is this?

    Let me try the removal of gateway IP field on the internal nic and get a
    copy of the ipconfig.

    Quick Q regarding the diagram, both the internal and external NIC ip dns
    "fields" state: IP address of the server...... Which server? currently these
    are as the sbs-wizard asked for pointed at my ISPs DNS IPs....... If I use
    my ISPs DNS IPs in the SBS external nic, should I then just have a loopback
    on the internal nic 127.0.0.1??.... Or setup DNS properly in admin tools
    with foward lookups etc??

    back in a mo

     
    jd, Jan 15, 2006
    #4
  5. Quick Q regarding the diagram, both the internal and external NIC ip dns

    I'm assuming you get a dynamic IP (public) IP address from your ISP. I'm
    also assuming you have SBS 2003 Standard. I'm alos assumign that you have
    the 2 NICs in your SBS server, and that you have configured them per the
    diagram at the web site I posted, and that you have run CEICW and enter your
    ISP's DNS nameservers as forwarders when it asked for them. You can do
    everything (except setting up the external NIC IP address, Subnet Mask,
    Default Gateway and DNS server) within the CEICW wizard. With SBS , don't
    do things "manually"... let the wizards do it for you.

    The "IP address of the server" is that of the internal NIC on the SBS 2003
    server (default would be 192.168.16.2).

    --
    Merv Porter [SBS MVP]
    ===================================
     
    Merv Porter [SBS-MVP], Jan 15, 2006
    #5
  6. jd

    jd Guest

    Hi Merv, You were spot on, removing the internal gateway field solved the
    internal name resolution!!

    However internet setup wiz still reported an error. Tried installing premium
    disk 6 and it reported an error with networking.

    Like you say, the wizard do more, than the simple answers one gives would
    suggest.

    Im on my 3rd full reinstall. This time both nics were in at the start and
    ive made a note that SBS earmarks the internal nic early on in preceedings.
    I also realise from your last post that the dns entries in the wizard arent
    for the nic!!

    Ive also noticed that changes to nic dont occur without a reboot.

    Fingers crossed 3rd time lucky!

    Thanks for your help!

     
    jd, Jan 15, 2006
    #6
  7. You're gettin' there JD! This is NOT wasted time. A general rule with SBS
    is to plan on installing it 3 times:

    The first time to see what the install process is all about.
    The second time to take detailed notes.
    The third time to verify the setup, selections and any notes you have so you
    can "document" your network.

    --
    Merv Porter [SBS MVP]
    ===================================


     
    Merv Porter [SBS-MVP], Jan 15, 2006
    #7
  8. we still need the output of 'ipconfig /all > c:\ipconfig.txt' from the
    server.

    I suspect the OP has both NICs in the same subnet.

     
    SuperGumby [SBS MVP], Jan 15, 2006
    #8
  9. Me, too. The wording of the original post _suggested_ both NICs are on
    192.168.1.x.

    -- Owen Williams
     
    Owen Williams, Jan 16, 2006
    #9
  10. jd

    jd Guest

    Sorry, tried to send you the config from the SBS server, but despite having
    succeeded in setting it up on the the third attempt, it tries to post to the
    newsgroup through "O-express" over the "internal" line.

    This is most strange as IExplorer happily knows that the external nic is the
    one to use!!!!

    The setup is now as follows:

    Internal NIC:
    static IP = 192.168.1.111
    Subnet = 255.255.255.0
    Gateway = NULL
    DNS = 127.0.0.1

    External NIC:
    static IP = 192.168.1.101
    Subnet = 255.255.255.0
    Gateway = 192.168.1.10
    DNS = 192.168.1.111 (note wizard entries were pointed to IPs DNS servers!)

    Should the External NIC not have a loop DNS entry??? I didnt enter the
    192.168.1.111 in the adapter properties!!

    plainly my ADSL router is 192.168.1.10
    Ive created a DHCP range allocation for the intranet of 192.168.1.120 to
    250 as all my routers and CCTV-network cameras are static below .100

    Is this OK?
     
    jd, Jan 16, 2006
    #10
  11. JD,

    As SG and Owen pointed out, your internal external NICs MUST be in different
    subnet if your physical setup is per the diagram at:.
    http://www.smallbizserver.net/Default.aspx?tabid=151

    In general, the easiest to change is the external subnet. You can leave
    your internal subnet at 192.168.1.x but you must change your external subnet
    to something different (like 192.168.16.x, 192.168.2.x, 192.168.100.x,
    etc.). (See the difference in the 3rd octet)? This means changing the
    subnet information on the external NIC and the LAN side of the router. And
    let the SBS server handle DHCP (if you don't already).

    Again, follow the diagram above and use the wizards.
     
    Merv Porter [SBS-MVP], Jan 16, 2006
    #11
  12. you have both NICs in the same subnet, WINSOCK is confused about which
    should handle the traffic.

    NOTE: What you refer to as 'subnet' below is actually the 'subnet mask'.
    Mask operations are a bit level AND operation (you need basic BINARY skills
    to interpret them correctly).

    Have another look at the Lovely M&M(&M) diagrams. You will note that one
    interface has 192.168.x.z/24 and the other has 192.168.y.z/24 (NOTE: /24 is
    just shorthand for 255.255.255.0, 24 bits,
    11111111.11111111.11111111.00000000). The two interfaces are in seperate
    subnets because x and y are different.

    Connect your 'external' NIC to the router directly. Connect your 'internal'
    NIC to your network switch. Run the 'Change Server IP Address' Wizard from
    the 'Internet and email' section of the SBS console, putting the 'internal'
    NIC into a different subnet, say 192.168.16.z/24. Then run the CEICW. All
    your problems will disappear.
     
    SuperGumby [SBS MVP], Jan 16, 2006
    #12
  13. I disagree, STRONGLY.

    It is easier and better to change the 'internal' NIC. The 'Change Server IP
    Address' wizard not only changes it for you but also changes service
    bindings and associated items (DNS reverse lookup), while avoiding the
    necessity of changing the router IP.

    Once the 'external' NIC is connected directly to the router, and the 'Change
    Server IP Address' and CEICW have been completed we'll have another properly
    configured SBS, and associated happy camper.


     
    SuperGumby [SBS MVP], Jan 16, 2006
    #13
  14. jd

    jd Guest

    Slow down you guys!!

    OK, Subnets, always confuse me, something I need to read up on! I would like
    to extend my IP range and have seperate subnets, but Im not sure how it
    applies...... if I change the 3rd box to 254 rather than 255 I get to use
    the 3rd box IP numbers dont I? So whys my 4th box got a 0 in it???

    Queries
    It would be less scary to change the external IP-Subnet mask

    When installing SBS, it was notably concerned with the internal nic and not
    the external one, therefore it suggests this is the problem area.... ie
    global changes are made rather than what appears in the nic properties.

    What does CEICW mean??? I dont know what BTW means either!

    The argument regarding the router is disengenuos in my case, as I have 10
    devices on my internal network with static IPs and subnets!, will I need to
    change them all over to the new subnet??

    Yes SBS is now handling DHCP, its bloody good at it to, normally theres a
    few gliches with different models of wifi/routers on my LAN that SBS has
    overcome!

    Which leads to an additional query about the internal routers, they all have
    "static route" options and RIP1,2 options. Does this static route play a
    part, should I point the route at the DHCP/SBS?? And what of RIP should I
    enable or disable? 1 or 2

    Thanks

    Jonathan
     
    jd, Jan 16, 2006
    #14
  15. jd

    jd Guest

    Ok read up on subnets, can the server internal IP remain the same, ie, can I
    just change the subnet to 255.255.254.0 from 255.255.255.0 and leave the SBS
    internal IP as is?

    Would this still allow static IP routers and APs on the ..255./24 subnet
    access to the 254./24 subnet and I would have a 510 IP address pool for
    SBS-dhcp!?!

    The external nic would remain on 255.255.255.0
    The external gateway router would be 255.255.255.0

    The internal nic would be changed to 255.255.254.0
    **The internal routers and APs would be 255.255.255.0**

    The DHCP cleints would become 255.255.254.0

    Have I got this right now? Or should I move the static IP routers over to
    ....255.0 aswell?

    Just curious, thanks Jonathan
     
    jd, Jan 16, 2006
    #15
  16. 255.255.255.0 is not the subnet, it is the subnet mask.

    192.168.1.0-255 is the 192.168.1.x subnet using a /24 (255.255.255.0) subnet
    mask.
    192.168.1.0 is the Network Address
    192.168.1.255 is the Broadcast Address
    192.168.1.1-254 are the usable IPs

    another subnet using a /24 mask would be
    192.168.0.0-255/24
    192.168.0.0 is the Network Address
    192.168.0.255 is the Broadcast Address
    192.168.0.1-254 are the usable IPs

    if you changed the mask to /23 (255.255.254.0) you would create a different
    scenario
    192.168.0.x/23 subnet
    192.168.0.0 is the Network Address
    192.168.1.255 is the Broadcast Address
    192.168.0.1 - 192.168.1.254 are usable IPs on this subnet. (all 510 of them)
    THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT

    You want the two NICs to be in seperate subnets. They can be in different
    subnets using the same subnet mask.

    I'd change the 'internal' subnet because SBS2003 will make this change for
    you.
     
    SuperGumby [SBS MVP], Jan 16, 2006
    #16
  17. JD,

    Leave the Subnet MASK (255.255.255.0) alone and change the 3rd octet in the
    IP address of either the internal NIC or (external NIC & router).

    ----------
    A) If you decide to change the internal NIC, make it something like
    192.168.16.x, go to Server Management | Internet and Mail | Change Server IP
    Address.
    ----------
    B) If you decide to change the external NIC and router, make it something
    like 192.168.100.x ...

    rt click My Network Places | Properties | rt. click the external NIC |
    Properties | Internet Protocol | Properties

    Then do similar for LAN side of router.
    ----------

    Again, follow the diagram and don't "over-think" this:
    http://www.smallbizserver.net/Default.aspx?tabid=151

    CEICW = Configure Email and Internet Connection Wizard


    * QUESTION1... Was the "dedicated ADSL Ethernet Modem" provided by the ISP?
    And does it simply pass ALL traffic to the router?
    * QUESTION2... If not, what is the purpose of the router on your network?
     
    Merv Porter [SBS-MVP], Jan 16, 2006
    #17
  18. Hi Jonatthan

    The Diagram at smallbizserver.net gave you the correct solution. I don't
    want to beat a dead horse here but the internal and external NICs CANNOT
    have the same three numeric addresses 192.168.1.xxx. To fix your problem
    requires two steps ONLY.

    1. Run the Change Server IP Address Wizard from Server Management Console -
    Internet and Email on Left Panel and set the Address to 192.168.16.2 Leave
    the Subnet Mask at 255.255,255.0

    2. Change the DNS on the External NIC to 192.168.16.2

    Restart the server and all Workstations.

    If you want to understand IP subnetting and subnet masks please get a book
    on the subject and study it. In the meantime let the Wizards and Super Gumby
    get you up and running. I hope this doesn't offend you but you need to
    listen to SG. He knows what he is doing!!
     
    Frank McCallister SBS MVP, Jan 16, 2006
    #18
  19. well, 3 or 4 actually. I think the OP is also using ports on the router as
    his internal switch, or at least has the router connected to the same switch
    as both NICs and his workstations.

    The 'external' NIC needs to be connected to the router, and in the same
    subnet as the router.
    The 'internal' NIC needs to be connected to the same switch as all SBS
    client PCs, and in a different subnet (but may, but does not necessarily
    have to, use the same subnet mask)
     
    SuperGumby [SBS MVP], Jan 16, 2006
    #19
  20. jd

    jd Guest

    Thank you all! SBS is now able to resolve internal from external!

     
    jd, Jan 17, 2006
    #20
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