is it fair to be asked to pay for upgade in a year?

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Performance' started by Dazza, Jun 22, 2006.

  1. Dazza

    Dazza Guest

    Does anyone else it is bit mean of Microsoft to ask people to test out Vista
    for them in the real world through this Beta, then expect them to pay for not
    just the upgrade, but perhaps the more costly full version?

    Surely we should get it for free for helping them out?

    :eek:)
     
    Dazza, Jun 22, 2006
    #1
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  2. Dazza

    Jason Guest

    Yes its fair.. nobody is forcing you to help them. Out of all the many
    products I've helped beta from various companies rarely, if ever, did one
    give testers the production version free of charge.
     
    Jason, Jun 22, 2006
    #2
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  3. Dazza

    Mark Dietz Guest

    And how many bugs or other feedback have you submitted since downloading the
    public beta? My guess is none, so why should they essentially pay you for this
    when all you did was take up their bandwidth?
     
    Mark Dietz, Jun 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Dazza

    Conor Guest

    Nobody held a gun to your head. If you don't like it, use Linux.
     
    Conor, Jun 22, 2006
    #4
  5. Dazza

    Dazza Guest

    I think people missed the point of my post.

    My comment was that people who are beta testing Vista "may" have to pay MORE
    for the final version, as they may have to buy the full version rather than
    the upgrade. Here in the UK the full version usually sells for £50+ more
    than the upgrade.

    I have beta tested lots of software and always given full feedback, reported
    bugs and suggested solutions. In return I have always got either the final
    version free, or a at discount by way of thank you. May be thats because, in
    the main, I test out education software.

    Again thats not really my point, it is the possibility of paying more and
    actually being penalised for being a beta tester.

    ps - Sorry for posting in 3 posts, it kept telling me the submission had
    failed.
     
    Dazza, Jun 24, 2006
    #5
  6. Dazza

    Vlad Guest

    I don't think they have to give it away for free (though most games/apps I
    beta tested did), but it'd be nice if we could have an incentive at the end,
    like to be able to buy the retail copy for the price of an OEM or something
    along the lines. Even if MS doesn't do that, I'm happy since it's been a good
    experience so far (and one which can only get better as time goes on).
    --
    Dell Inspiron E1505/6400
    Intel Core Duo T2300 @ 1.66ghz
    1GB 533mhz DDR2
    ATi Mobility Radeon X1400 128MB (256MB HyperMemory)
     
    Vlad, Jun 24, 2006
    #6
  7. There really is no need to do this, UNLESS you have never owned a copy
    of XP, in which case you WILL need to purchase the Full Retail (or a
    generic OEM) of Vista.
    1) Those of us who are using the Community Public Preview of Vista are
    NOT "beta testers', in the strictest sense of the word.
    2) Microsoft does use "real" beta testers, both in-house (who are
    paid), and through it's Private Beta program (who are not paid),
    available to anyone who is accepted into the program by Microsoft. All
    one has to do is apply. If you do have true Beta testing experience,
    it will be a plus.
    3) Microsoft also uses "beta testers" who are part of Microsoft's MSDN
    (with an OS membership) and Microsoft's Technet. These people are all
    developers, who PAY for their Betas, as well as the RTM.

    Microsoft's philosophy is that the general public are getting the use
    of one or more "Community Public Previews", plus the Release
    Candidates, for a full year, for FREE. Why should they then GIVE the
    OS away to hundreds of thousands of home users who are (mostly)
    amateurs and hobbyists (most of whom did not engage in the Beta
    program in any meaningful way, other than by installing the OS and
    using it.)

    As far as the RTM is concerned, it has always been possible to
    purchase and install the newest Microsoft OS through an UPGRADE
    version, which you will be able to purchase, if you so choose, rather
    than the RETAIL edition.

    As far as Microsoft UPGRADE editions are concerned, they ALWAYS
    include EVERY "BIT" the FULL RETAIL editions contains, but can ONLY be
    installed by proving ownership of a qualifying previous MS OS. This
    is accomplished by simply inserting the previous version's media in
    the drive if Setup fails to find a previous OS on the HD (or if you
    have a "blank" HD, for that matter).


    ==

    Donald L McDaniel
    Please reply to the original thread.
    =====================================================
     
    Donald L McDaniel, Jun 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Dazza

    Dazza Guest

    Yeah but if you read the terms and conditions it quite clearly says that you
    may not be able to install the upgrade version in a years time, but have to
    buy the full installation. Which will cost more than the upgrade version -
    which is my point - perhaps I am not making it clearly enough ;o)
     
    Dazza, Jun 24, 2006
    #8

  9. Your "point" is truly meaningless, sir.
    You need more experience with purchasing and using Wintel OSes like
    Windows. Those of us who have been purchasing and using Windows for
    years won't have to worry about purchasing a FULL RETAIL edition of
    Vista when it is released to manufacturing.

    I advise you to learn all the ins and outs of Windows Upgrade
    Editions, rather than complaining about not being able to get a RTM
    copy of Vista for free.

    Obviously, you won't be able to use an Upgrade edition if you do not
    have a previous license to XP. If you do, you will be able to.

    Personaly, I think you are just looking for something to find fault
    with Microsoft about.


    ==

    Donald L McDaniel
    Please reply to the original thread.
    =====================================================
     
    Donald L McDaniel, Jun 25, 2006
    #9
  10. Dazza

    Custerboy Guest

    I think the Op has a very valid point. I have been testing MS Betas since the
    early kernals, and I don't believe that MS necessarily has the customer's
    best interests at heart, but are in business to make as much money as they
    can in as short a period as they can, like most other corporations.

    Why flame him for stating his concerns? Bill doesn't care what you think.
    Sir.
     
    Custerboy, Jun 26, 2006
    #10
  11. Dazza

    Dazza Guest

    My query was around this clause

    "Upgrade limitations
    You may not be able to upgrade your installation of Windows Vista Beta 2 (or
    RC1) to the final, commercially available edition of Windows Vista. To
    upgrade you will need to acquire the final full edition of Windows Vista and
    you may have to do a clean installation."

    Does this mean I cant still purchase the cheaper upgrade version in a year?

    I do indeed have a licensed version of XP at the moment a comment which I
    felt was uncalled for.

    Why is it that due to the annonimity of forums such as these, people feel
    they can be as rude as they like, rather than discussing points in an adult
    and civilised way.
     
    Dazza, Jun 26, 2006
    #11
  12. Dazza

    Custerboy Guest

    There are a lot worse places than this, my friend...
     
    Custerboy, Jun 27, 2006
    #12
  13. The key is the words "upgrade your installation of Windows Vista Beta 2
    (or RC1) to the final", meaning that you might not be able to install
    the final Vista over an Beta 2/RC1 installation. However you will still
    be able to perform an XP->Vista upgrade. The reason for this is that MS
    does not want to burden themselves with ensuring that this upgrade-path
    works since it will not be a common one, and they do not give any
    guarantees whatsoever for beta software.
     
    Erik Wikström, Jun 27, 2006
    #13
  14. Dazza

    Greg Bowers Guest

    It means that the beta/RC1 version you install may not be upgradable,
    for technical reasons. Microsoft does not wish to develop the code
    necessary to upgrade a number of Vista versions (B1, B2, RC1, RC2,
    etc) to the final version. You'll need to do one of the following:

    1. Reformat your hard drive and install a full retail copy of Vista.
    2. Upgrade your existing copy of XP.

    Microsoft is providing a service to users here, by allowing them to
    test and learn a new OS before it is released. If the users like,
    they can supply feedback. Most of us have Vista installed on spare
    machines or hard drives and continue to use our previous version of
    Windows when we're not "playing" with Vista. We intend to install the
    final version of Vista using either of the two steps above.
     
    Greg Bowers, Jun 27, 2006
    #14
  15. 1) Is it valid that Microsoft should give away their software, which
    they are spending billions of dollars to develop, just because one or
    more stupid users were remiss in backing up their data?
    2) Is it valid that it may not be possible to upgrade the Betas and
    Release Candidates of Vista themselves? Of course it's valid.
    Especially when it will STILL be possible to install Vista "clean"
    using the Vista Upgrade Edition with an installation or CD of Windows
    XP (either by installing it OVER XP on a HD or by inserting his
    EXISTING FULL OEM or Full Retail CD when asked?)
    3) Why should Microsoft make it possible for us to keep our data and
    programs intact when one should NEVER install them in a test
    environment in the first place without BACKING it up FIRST? Microsoft
    tells us EXPLICITLY NOT to install Vista (or any of its pre-release
    products) on our everyday working machines. So the OP was NOT without
    warning from Microsoft, SIR.
    4) I have in NO WAY "flamed" the OP. I simply tried to inform him
    that he was mistaken in his opinion of Microsoft, and tried to give
    him information ANY past "Beta tester" already should have. The fact
    is, HE (and you) have bad attitudes, not me.
    5) I have flamed YOU, SIR, since YOU should know better.


    ==

    Donald L McDaniel
    Please reply to the original thread.
    ==========================================================
     
    Donald L McDaniel, Jul 7, 2006
    #15
  16. Dazza

    Justin Guest

    I'm sorry to see that you were slammed for your question, but I think you
    recognized that the 'point of your question' was not particularly well
    delivered.

    The answer to your question has been addressed but in case there is any
    confusion: you will be able to buy the upgrade if you fit the upgrade
    criteria (almost surely from XP). Your note about the inability to upgrade
    from the Beta is as pointed out, a legal disclaimer and forwarning that you
    may not be able to perform the upgrade from the beta installation (i.e., you
    must revert to XP, or do a clean install using the upgrade with the original
    XP OS disk; the specific way will vary depending on how MS plans to deal with
    the security issues of proper upgrading licenses).

    Why you got flamed? I think you might want to know why you got flamed.
    We're a community and well, perhaps a protective one. MS get's slammed for
    everything. In this case, you were, wether you intended to, setting MS up for
    a negative critique that was unfounded. How you phrased your question may not
    have delivered your point well as it seemed encumbered with some emotion. I
    and I think none of the others here want to see MS shy away from such a
    public Beta program because of responses like yours, albeit a
    misunderstanding. Such misunderstandings could lead MS to not offer a public
    Beta in the future and this would hurt everyone! You see, with a public
    Beta, MS gets to test the waters outside of the "controlled environment"
    where variations in hardware and software is unlimited. As testers, we have a
    little chance to see in advance the system, learn in advance, and of course,
    help identify any problems that might be present which really should be
    addressed but for some reason was overlooked (not likely?). In the end, all
    consumers will benefit. Yes, so will Microsoft ... but in my opinion,
    rightfully so ... they made an investment, have extended the public outreach
    and consultation (which they really don't have to given the lack of
    competitive alternatives).

    It all comes down to writing clearly ... which I forgive I have not done
    here. I'm a little rushed, but I think that my points should come across
    properly.

    Cheers
     
    Justin, Jul 11, 2006
    #16
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