Jungo's WinDriver ToolKit

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Drivers' started by Kid, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. Kid

    Kid Guest


    I see Jungo's WinDriver Toolkit can support Vista and Unix like OS .

    Do you think it is worthy of study much more convenient than WDK ?

    Is there other good driver Toolkit in the market ?

    Thank you .
    Kid, Apr 13, 2008
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  2. No.
    chris.aseltine, Apr 13, 2008
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  3. I used to think Jungo's stuff was a total piece of junk. I felt that
    because I worked on a far superior toolkit called WinDK that was made by a
    company called BlueWater Systems. Nothing compared to WinDK, it was years
    ahead of the competition. In fact if WinDK were around today, I would use
    it in a heartbeat of KMDF. Unfortunately, the morons who ran a company
    called BSquare bought BlueWater (for what reason I could never figure out)
    and tried their best to run it into the ground. When WinDK refused to quit
    making money, they decided to cut the only division in the whole of BSquare
    that actually paid for itself plus a bunch of dead weight they threw into
    our group.

    Later I worked for a company called Compuware which had bought a Windows
    tool company called NuMega which had a debugger called SoftICE and a driver
    toolkit called DriverWorks. I hated DriverWorks, but it was mostly a
    philosophical problem with the toolkit from my perspective. The code was
    pretty solid, but I didn't like the toolkits approach. It hid way too much
    detail and was difficult to debug. It doesn't matter now anyway, because I
    didn't realize it, but Compuware was just another BSquare. They ran the
    NuMega labs into the ground as best they could and then cut everything when
    they weren't making "enough" money.

    I see KMDF as kind of in a middle ground between those two old frameworks.
    Part of me wishes that KMDF had just been a couple of libs to handle PnP and
    Power and not much more. The other part of me sees the way the KMDF guys
    tackled the driver model, and I like it. Unfortunately, KMDF suffers from a
    fatal flaw. It doesn't ship with source. I wouldn't use a toolkit without
    source unless I was forced. KMDF is a cool framework, but without source to
    me it's useless.

    Jungo, as far as I know, suffers from the same flaw. However, at least
    Jungo has a bunch of other features to go with the no source code. They
    have wizards, tools to help you interrogate your hardware, stuff that all of
    the toolkits used to have in one flavor or another, but which KMDF offers
    none. It is a true toolkit.

    So, if I have to pick a tool I don't like, I guess I would go with the more
    full featured??

    Personally, I am glad I live in a place and time where I know how to quickly
    develop drivers without KMDF, and where KMDF hasn't been forced down my
    throat via WHQL or some other means YET.

    I am quickly trying to move into driver models which won't likely be
    affected by KMDF in the near term. KMDF may yet force me into a management
    role :)

    IF, Microsoft ever caught a clue and released source to their framework, it
    would probably be worth it for some enterprising folks to release some
    wizards and other highly useful tools to go with it. THAT would be the best
    toolkit available! But, I doubt that will ever happen.

    Just my $0.02 on the whole mess.

    Hope this helps.

    Bill M.
    Bill McKenzie, Apr 15, 2008
  4. One of our drivers was based on WinDK. It had about 190 PREfast
    failures in the library code. I had the true privilege of going and
    cleaning them all up.
    chris.aseltine, Apr 15, 2008
  5. Yeah, but how many of those bugs were real? Prefast catches a lot that
    either doesn't matter would likely never hit.

    AND, you think the DDK samples didn't have just as many before PreFast came
    along? Try it against some samples from an old DDK sometime. Keep things
    in perspective.

    Had PREFast been available we wouild have nailed that down. And 190 for all
    that code doesn't seem that bad depending on the bugs.

    No one will ever know how many Prefast errors were in or are still in
    Jungo's code. Or KMDF :) I jest, the check in procedures at Microsoft are
    fairly strict to say the least.

    Bill M.
    Bill McKenzie, Apr 15, 2008
  6. Kid

    Don Burn Guest

    At least it was not DriverStudio, the last time I ran PreFast and PC-Lint on
    that piece of shit, I found over 1000 errors that were real, including over
    200 unitialized pointers, and similar crap.

    Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
    Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
    Website: http://www.windrvr.com
    Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
    Remove StopSpam to reply
    Don Burn, Apr 15, 2008
  7. And I guarantee it (Driver Studio) still had a few power managment "gotchas"
    that you wouldn't find until runtime with verifier enabled.
    Gary G. Little, Apr 16, 2008
  8. Kid

    Adam H Guest

    Does anyone know of a simple way to bring a driver built with BlueWater WinDK up to Windows 64 bit? Does anyone have any experience with this?
    Adam H, Oct 29, 2012
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