Just say I bought Vista to play games...

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by Grumps, Mar 24, 2007.

  1. Grumps

    Grumps Guest

    ....along with a nice shiney DX19 graohics card. But wait! Where's
    DX10? And what about the games - when are they coming out? So just
    HOW long do we have to wait?
    Methinks MS have mislead me. Isn't that unlawful?
     
    Grumps, Mar 24, 2007
    #1
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  2. How can you say Microsoft misled you when the hardware manufacturers do not
    have DX10 parts and game developers are not releasing DX10 games.

    You misled yourself.

    --


    Regards,

    Richard Urban MVP
    Microsoft Windows Shell/User
     
    Richard Urban, Mar 24, 2007
    #2
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  3. Well technically nVidia as a DX10 card in the 8800 series and Microsoft has
    Flight Sim X (thought it won't be a DX10 game until a DX10 Patch is
    released) But we already answered this over in the Vista.Games section. So 2
    points off for multi posting


     
    Dale M. White -LV32, Mar 24, 2007
    #3
  4. Any time a new operating system comes out it takes a while for game
    developers (and pretty much every other software company) to catch up.
    Nothing new here.
    I was tired of my old games anyway. All the new games coming out this year
    support Vista and those are the ones I'm excited about.
     
    Steve C. Orr [MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASP Insider], Mar 24, 2007
    #4

  5. OOOOooooooooooooooh..... NOW I understand everything.
     
    David Morgan \(MAMS\), Mar 24, 2007
    #5
  6. Grumps

    Guest Guest

    There are actually a few DX10 games out. FSX (flight simulator 10) is one of
    them. I have it and love it.
    I have the exact same machine and it had XP. I played FSX with XP and it was
    ok, when I installed
    Vista on that same machine, FSX really came to life, and is freaking
    awesome. DX10 makes a huge difference
    for those games that can use it :) However, you need to have a DX10 card to
    really benefit from DX10 games.
    DX10 will work with many DX9 graphics cards but it runs the DX10 features in
    an emulated mode. This
    of course will negatively affect performance. I would recommend the nVidia
    8800 GTS or GTX, it is DX10 and Vista
    compatible. The card is freaking amazing. You will need a PCI express slot
    and a six pin power connector.
    I actually have owned the card for a long time and it was very expensive
    when I bought it (it was the first
    DX10) card available retail where I live, but it should be much cheaper now.
    The drivers from nVidia for that
    card for Vista are pretty good and will serve you well. I am not sure how
    much you know about the inner
    working of direct x, and the differences between DX9 and DX10, but the whole
    architecture of direct x has
    changed. There is no longer the 'rendering pipelines', DX10 cards work by a
    different concept, in which
    the graphics card process different parts of the rendering process as
    needed. I will include a link fully
    describing DX10 and relevant cards if you wish when I wake up tomorrow, kind
    of late here.
    G
     
    Guest, Mar 24, 2007
    #6
  7. Grumps

    Musicrab Guest

    released) But we already answered this over in the Vista.Games section. So
    Yer- sorry-I didn't see the games group until after I posted this.
     
    Musicrab, Mar 24, 2007
    #7
  8. Grumps

    Dale White Guest

    That's odd, All I have heard is that the Patch that makes FSX DX10 is still
    a way away, are you saying you have said patch ?

    What other DX10 games are out and actually running in DX10 mode ?


     
    Dale White, Mar 24, 2007
    #8
  9. Grumps

    Robert Firth Guest

    Nothing unlawful. DX10 is there, and I suppose you meant you had a DX10 card
    instead of "DX19". You are only waiting for the game developers so make
    games that make use of DX10, which is inevitable.

    Robert Firth
    http://www.winvistainfo.org
     
    Robert Firth, Mar 25, 2007
    #9
  10. Grumps

    Stephan Rose Guest

    I doubt you'll really see DX10 games any time soon. Reason is fairly simple.

    DX10 and DX9 are vastly different in their implementation. DX10 has no fixed
    function pipeline anymore just for starters requiring vertex shaders and
    pixel shaders for even the simplest tasks....bad idea in my opinion.

    So for that reason, a game developer can't very easily, if at all, make an
    engine supporting both DX9 and DX10. The rendering paths are just too
    vastly different. It'd almost be like writing two game engines as far as
    the rendering pipeline is concerned.

    On top of that comes this:

    XP Supports DX9, does not support DX10.
    Vista Supports DX9 and DX10.

    I'd say it is more than safe enough to say that the XP users still by far
    outnumber Vista users.

    I'd even go as far as to say that a high-end gamer is less likely to move to
    Vista than the average user. DX10 is of little reason yet as there is not
    much out there using it. Vista's resource requirements leave less resources
    to the game on the same hardware and most non-casual gamers tend do be
    picky about their game's performance.

    Also consider that only 8800's and above video cards support DX10. Meaning
    that any game using DX10 will only work on the most absolute high-end
    hardware out there that not many users have.

    Also consider the time it unfortunately takes these days to make a game.
    Long gone are the days when a single person could easily make a game that
    can compete in the market place. These days games can take several months
    if not even years in same cases to develop. Meaning that everything in
    development right now, is still DX9.

    Any developer intending to start development this year and release this year
    or even not until next year, is also still best using DX9 as that will give
    the broadest audience. Both in terms of OS usage and hardware requirements.

    Also consider that most games don't even really use DX9 to its fullest
    potential yet. If I had to name games using Pixel Shader 2.0 I can name
    several. If I had to name games using Pixel Shader 3.0 not even one comes
    to my mind. Vanguard...maybe? There are games that use it...but they are a
    minority.

    Bottom line, I really don't think that DX10 is that viable a choice for any
    developer at this moment. The key problems with it being the hardware and
    OS requirements that won't be widespread enough met for at least I'd say 2
    years.

    Even if someone has a machine running Vista, that does not mean they have a
    8800 GTS/GTX or higher to go with it to run DX10 software.

    I think the only thing DX10 makes sense for right now are projects that have
    a development time of 2 years or more. Assuming that MS' doesn't blow its
    legs off with Vista, I don't think that the OS nor the required hardware
    for DX10 will become mainstream enough for a developer to consider using
    it.

    The only way really, at this point in time, for a developer to write an
    application that will run on all of todays hardware but *also* have
    features for the high-end DX10 level hardware is quite honestly...OpenGL. I
    am wondering if maybe this scenario may not get some developers to consider
    using it. It can do everything DX9 and DX10 can without needing two
    completely different APIs.

    That actually puts OpenGL into the unique position of having quite an
    advantage over DX in that regard. In my opinion anyway.

    Not to mention that using OpenGL means that the game isn't tied to one
    operating system and can run on any platform on this planet further
    broadening the audience.

    I am quite curious to see what the future will bring in that regard. =)

    --
    Stephan
    2003 Yamaha R6

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    Stephan Rose, Mar 25, 2007
    #10
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