KB837009.. same Windows Update every day!!!

Discussion in 'Windows Update' started by Coyote Supergenius, Jan 13, 2005.

  1. Then that could explain your symptoms.
    As I explained 823353 supersedes 837009 even though it has
    a lower number. So, you should not be trying to install 837009.

    I bet that strange version which I can't find documented was
    created specially for the "cumulative update" that was on that CD.
    The CD would have been installed independently of WU
    so it's not surprising that WU is confused about what
    versions it thinks you should have and what versions it sees
    that you actually have.


    Do you remember when you installed that security CD?
    Perhaps it has some separate logs which use different
    naming conventions than the ones that I am imagining.
    If you know the day that you installed it you could use
    an Explorer Find to find all files which were changed
    on that day and then sort that list by Date Modified.
    That in turn would order the files by timestamp and you
    would be able to check for readable files by dragging
    likely looking names from the Find window to a Notepad
    window to browse them. (Assuming WinME's Notepad
    isn't as limited as Win95's once was.)

    A less provably complete but perhaps equivalent list
    of diagnostics associated with that update might be
    found simply by searching your harddrive for all *.log
    files which contain 823353

    In the meantime I can try to analyse the rest of the
    version information you gave in your other post,
    just to doublecheck that all your OE modules
    are 823353 or better. If they are I would say
    there is nothing wrong and nothing to do,
    just ignore that 837009 update.


    Does the UI allow you to decline an update?
    Perhaps your fix will be that easy, declining 837009
    for the very good reason that you can't use it.


    HTH

    Robert
    ---
     
    Robert Aldwinckle, Jan 19, 2005
    #21
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  2. Oops. I just thought of a way you might have available though I have never
    used your OS: msinfo32. Look for either an item in Software Environment
    called Loaded Modules or an item in Internet Settings called File Versions.
    If you use the Loaded Modules option make sure that you have an OE window
    open to ensure that its modules are loaded.


    There are 3 discrepancies with the manifest in MS04-018,
    two as we were expecting with that strange 6.00.2800.1478
    that we suspect came from the cumulative update on the
    Security Update CD. And one which may or may not indicate
    a regression: msident.dll The 823353 manifest shows it would be
    at the same level as the rest: 6.00.2800.1123. But it is base
    OE6sp1. Why? I hope you find an update log from your
    install (see my reply to your other post) so we can clear this up.

    BTW some of this apparently is deja vu. Check out this November
    post from Angel Enrique Pacheco (your OS and 823353 but no
    mention of the Security Update CD.) Because you have a higher
    version of some modules than 823353 I don't think you should try
    (re)installing it as Angel did.

    http://groups-beta.google.com/group..._doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#8bdd1b09c57ba79a


    HTH

    Robert
    ---
     
    Robert Aldwinckle, Jan 19, 2005
    #22
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  3. Coyote Supergenius

    Joann Guest

    Hey,
    I found this 823353 installed on June 23,04 and was the only one that was
    modified. I had most of the updates installed from the web site. So I copied
    the notepad below (its really long) but maybe u can tell something from that.
    And no it wont let me decline, as a matter of fact that STUPID download
    reminder is in my system tray as I type.
    Thanks for all your help I do appreciate it!!! I want to upgrade to XP in
    the near future but maybe we can solve this soon.
    Joann



    [Version]
    signature="$CHICAGO$"
    AdvancedINF=2.5
    OSVersion=4.90

    [DefaultInstall]
    CheckAdminRights=1
    RequiredEngine=Setupapi
    CustomDestination=CustomDests
    CopyFiles=System.Files,DllCache.Files,Windows.Files,Cat.file,IEProgram.Files,OE.Files,Common.Files,MSINFO.Files,VGX.Files,TRIEDIT.Files
    AddReg=Program.AddReg,Uninst.Reg,User.AddReg,Actsetup.Reg
    DelReg=Program.DelReg,User.DelReg
    RunPreSetupCommands=Programs.PreRpsc,User.PreRpsc
    RunPostSetupCommands=Programs.Rpsc,User.Rpsc
    ComponentName=%COMPNAME%
    ComponentVersion=%COMPVERSION%

    [Uninstall]
    CheckAdminRights=1
    RequiredEngine=Setupapi
    CustomDestination=CustomDests
    CopyFiles=System.Files,DllCache.Files,Windows.Files,Cat.file,IEProgram.Files,OE.Files,Common.Files,MSINFO.Files,VGX.Files,TRIEDIT.Files
    AddReg=Program.AddReg,User.AddReg,Actsetup.Reg
    ComponentName=%COMPNAME%
    ComponentVersion=%COMPVERSION%

    [DelBackup]
    RequiredEngine=Setupapi
    CustomDestination=CustomDests
    DelReg=Uninst.Reg,Uninstinfo.reg
    DelFiles=BackupFiles

    [BackupFiles]
    %COMPNAME%.dat
    %COMPNAME%.ini

    [Uninstinfo.reg]
    HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Advanced INF Setup\%COMPNAME%"

    [Uninst.Reg]
    HKLM,"SoftWare\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\%COMPNAME%","DisplayName",,"%SourceDiskName% %COMPID%"
    HKLM,"SoftWare\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\%COMPNAME%","QuietDisplayName",,"%SourceDiskName% %COMPID%"
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\%COMPNAME%","UninstallString",,"%25%\%IE_UNINST_EXE% %17%\%COMPID%.inf"
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\%COMPNAME%","RequiresIESysFile",,"%IEVersion%"
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\%COMPNAME%","QuietUninstallString",,"%25%\%IE_UNINST_EXE% /d %17%\%COMPID%.inf"
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer","UpdateInf",,"%17%\%COMPID%.inf"

    [DestinationDirs]
    System.Files=11
    INF.Files=17
    Windows.Files=25
    DllCache.Files=49000
    IEProgram.Files=49100
    Common.Files=49850
    Cat.file=49100
    OE.Files=49700
    Mil.Cat=17,CATALOG; Windir\inf\catalog directory
    BackupFiles=49600,"Uninstall Information\%COMPNAME%"

    SharedFiles=49930
    MSINFO.Files=49950
    VGX.Files=49930,"VGX"
    TRIEDIT.Files=49930,"Triedit"

    [CustomDests]
    49000=DllCacheLDID, 85
    49100=IExploreLDID, 85
    49400=SourceDir,85
    49600=ProgramFilesDir,5
    49700=AthenaDir,5
    49800=CommonFilesDir,5
    49850=CommonSystemDir,5
    49930=SharedFilesDir,5
    49950=MSInfoDir,5


    [DllCacheLDID]
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows
    NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon","SfcDllCacheDir","%FolderPrompt%","%25%\system32\dllcache"

    [ProgramFilesDir]
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion","ProgramFilesDir",,"%24%\%STR_PROGRAMF_DIR%"

    [IExploreLDID]
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App
    Paths\IEXPLORE.EXE","Path","%IEFolderPrompt%","%49600%\Internet Explorer"

    [AthenaDir]
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Outlook
    Express","InstallRoot",,"%49600%\%STR_MAILNEWS_DIR%"

    [CommonFilesDir]
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion","CommonFilesDir",,"%49600%\%STR_COMMON_DIR%"

    [SharedFilesDir]
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Shared
    Tools","SharedFilesDir",,"%49800%\%STR_SHARED_DIR%"

    [MSInfoDir]
    HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App
    Paths\msinfo32.exe","Path",,"%49930%\%STR_MSINFO_DIR%"


    [CommonSystemDir]
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\WAB","CommonSystemDir",,"%49800%\%STR_SYSTEM_DIR%"

    [SourceDisksNames]
    54=%IE_Media%

    [Programs.PreRpsc]
    rundll32.exe advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %49400%\%COMPID%_d.inf,copycat,1

    [copycat]
    RequiredEngine=Setupapi
    CopyFiles=mil.Cat,INF.Files
    CatalogName=%COMPID%_ME.cat
    RunPostSetupCommands=UnprotectMe

    [UnprotectMe]
    %11%\SUCATREG.EXE /D:%COMPID%_ME.cat

    [Mil.cat]
    %COMPID%_ME.cat

    [Delfiles]
    RequiredEngine=Setupapi
    CustomDestination=CustomDests
    DelFiles=Del.Files
    Delreg=Uninst.Reg

    [Del.Files]
    %COMPID%.inf

    ;-----------------------------------------


    [Strings]
    Msft="Microsoft"
    ExceptionClassDesc="Microsoft Internet Explorer 6"
    IE_Media="Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 Distribution Media"
    FolderPrompt="Is this the folder used as the Dll Cache on your system?"
    IEFolderPrompt="Do you want to use this folder to save Internet Explorer 6
    Uninstall program?"
    STR_PROGRAMF_DIR="Program Files"
    STR_MAILNEWS_DIR="Outlook Express"
    STR_COMMON_DIR="Common Files"
    STR_SHARED_DIR="Microsoft Shared"
    STR_MSINFO_DIR="MSInfo"
    STR_VGX_DIR="VGX"
    SourceDiskName="Outlook Express"
    STR_SYSTEM_DIR=System
    COMPNAME=oeupdate
    IE_UNINST_EXE=oeuninst.exe
    Compversion=28001450
    Compid=Q823353
    CatalogFile=Q823353.cat
    IEVersion=6.0.2800.1106
    Version="6,0,2800,1450"
    Guid={f5173cf0-1dfb-4978-8e50-a90169ee7ca9}



    [SourceDisksFiles]
    %COMPID%.cat=54
    %COMPID%_me.cat=54
    dummy.cat=54
    %IE_UNINST_EXE%=54
    OEMIGLIB.DLL=54
    INETRES.DLL=54
    MSIMN.EXE=54
    WABFIND.DLL=54
    MSOERT2.DLL=54
    OEMIG50.EXE=54
    INETCOMM.DLL=54
    WABMIG.EXE=54
    MSOERES.DLL=54
    MSOEACCT.DLL=54
    WAB32.DLL=54
    OEIMPORT.DLL=54
    WABIMP.DLL=54
    WAB.EXE=54
    DIRECTDB.DLL=54
    MSIDENT.DLL=54
    MSOE.DLL=54


    [Windows.Files]
    %IE_UNINST_EXE%

    [INF.files]
    %COMPID%.inf,%COMPID%_d.inf

    [User.Rpsc]

    [User.PreRpsc]

    [Program.AddReg]

    [Program.DelReg]



    [IEProgram.Files]




    [System.Files]
    INETRES.DLL,,,32
    MSOERT2.DLL,,,32
    INETCOMM.DLL,,,32
    MSOEACCT.DLL,,,32
    MSIDENT.DLL,,,32


    [OE.Files]
    OEMIGLIB.DLL,,,32
    MSIMN.EXE,,,32
    WABFIND.DLL,,,32
    OEMIG50.EXE,,,32
    WABMIG.EXE,,,32
    MSOERES.DLL,,,32
    OEIMPORT.DLL,,,32
    WABIMP.DLL,,,32
    WAB.EXE,,,32
    MSOE.DLL,,,32


    [Common.Files]
    WAB32.DLL,,,32
    DIRECTDB.DLL,,,32


    [Actsetup.Reg]
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed
    Components\%GUID%",,,"%COMPID%"
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed
    Components\%GUID%","IsInstalled",0x10001,01,00,00,00
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed
    Components\%GUID%","Version",,"%VERSION%"
    HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed
    Components\%GUID%","ComponentID",,"%COMPID%"

    [User.AddReg]


    [User.delreg]
     
    Joann, Jan 19, 2005
    #23
  4. Coyote Supergenius

    Noel Paton Guest

    Noel Paton, Jan 22, 2005
    #24

  5. Noel,

    I agree with Lee's comment.

    <quote>
    The use of /n:v switch, even if given by MS, is still mightily
    dangerous as it bypasses the version test of pre-existing files
    ....
    </quote>

    particularly so in Joann's case since we have evidence that it is probably
    a case of the user having a superseding update which even supersedes
    the *next* cumulative update 823353. Notice that 823353 does in fact
    supersede 837009. (Ref. MS04-018; MS04-018 replaces MS04-013)

    As far as I can see in this incident there are only two things wrong:
    1. somehow msident.dll has been regressed
    2. WU keeps suggesting 837009 which is unusable until something
    is done to back out the previous update (which appears to be a special
    post-823353 cumulative update that arrived and was installed outside
    of WU via the Security Update CD)

    Forcing an install of 837009 might fix the first problem
    and in a way accomplish the pre-condition for the second
    problem. Do you know anything about that Security Update CD
    to know if she can reinstall something on it in order to get her OE
    back up to the post-823353 level that she currently is at?
    Otherwise you seem to be suggesting for her to regress that version
    without any statement about how it might be restored.


    Robert
    ---
     
    Robert Aldwinckle, Jan 22, 2005
    #25
  6. Coyote Supergenius

    Noel Paton Guest

    The Security CD is simply a collection of WIndowsUpdates - no more and no
    less.
    The wrapper on the CD forces the install of ALL the available updates on the
    CD, in their proper order.

    MS considered (in their infinite wisdom and supposedly better knowledge)
    that this was a better thing than allowing the user to duck out of some
    upgrades (WMP9 and others) and discounted evidence that some older machines
    couldn't run the upgraded apps.

    As a matter of routine in all systems that I come into contact with, I run
    Belarc Advisor, to assess the state of the Hotfixes/patches - anything that
    shows as barfed in that definitely needs a re-install, and anything where it
    shows as 'could not be verified', needs further investigation of the type
    that I see you've already done with Joann's system,

    Should forcing the patch to install cause problems, then it's a fairly
    simple matter to force a reinstall of the subsequent patches. (Belarc gives
    links to the MSKB articles involved)


    --
    Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

    Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
    http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
    http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

    Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
     
    Noel Paton, Jan 22, 2005
    #26
  7. So then wouldn't we expect Joann to see them in Add/Remove Programs?

    Any idea *which* of those updates installed that 6.00.2800.1478?
    Perhaps there is one which I am not aware of which *can* be uninstalled
    and reinstalled.

    E.g. is there an equivalent WinME version of 887797?
    What module versions does it involve?

    Yes! I had forgotten that I had my XPsp1 partition updated.
    I have 887797 on it and 6.00.2800.1478 is the new version
    that it installs.

    Why the heck don't they include module version in the logs?
    And why isn't there better documentation of that update period?


    Now, getting back to Joann and her WinME.
    She says she can't see any OE entries in Add/Remove Programs.
    Is that expected or not? Actually I didn't explicitly ask her to check
    for 887797. Since that supersedes both 837009 and 823353
    I imagine it might make those two to disappear from that list?
    Also, in XP the user has to check a box in A/RP labeled Show Updates.
    Is there by any chance a similar box that WinME users have to check?
    If so I would be hopeful that to fix the regressed module what she might
    do is check that box and then look for 887797, then uninstall
    and reinstall that update.


    If as you suggest all cumulative updates were installed by the Security
    Update CD then uninstalling 887797 would probably restore the
    versions from 823353. Do you think it would be necessary also to
    uninstall 823353 which in turn presumably would revert to 837009?
    And what about that one? The only reason for doing anything more
    than uninstalling and reinstalling 887797 would be to try to make WU behave.
    It would be interesting to see what WU would do if she backed out to 837009
    and could see it listed there in her A/RP.


    Since the version of msident.dll is common to all three updates
    I suspect that simply uninstalling 887797 could fix that problem,
    although we don't know at which point that regression occurred.
    Thinking about it some more the most likely reason that I can
    see for the regression to have occurred would be that the copy
    failed when 837009 was done; so most likely no fix to it would occur
    simply as a result of doing an uninstall. She would have to do
    at least one reinstall to replace that module.


    I would now agree to a /N:V install but for 887797
    The idea would be to fix the msident.dll problem
    and ensure that an update which supersedes 837009
    is clearly and correctly in place. If 837009 continues
    to be offered after that I would conclude that there is
    a bug in the WU database (at least for WinME).


    Thanks for your help, Noel.


    Robert
    ---
     
    Robert Aldwinckle, Jan 23, 2005
    #27
  8. Coyote Supergenius

    Noel Paton Guest

    In a fully updated VM of ME I see the following entries in A/R programs
    IE (Q880203)
    ..NET Framework 1.1
    MDAC KB 870669
    IE6SP1 & Internet Tools
    OE6
    MS VGX Q833989
    OE Q887797
    Windows ME Q823559 Update
    (and that's all from MS - after a clean install, updating with the CD, and
    then patching from Windows Update))

    It's now 1:11 in the a.m. and I can't see straight<g> - I'll attempt a
    response in the morning.



    --
    Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

    Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
    http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
    http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

    Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
     
    Noel Paton, Jan 23, 2005
    #28
  9. Coyote Supergenius

    Josifus. Guest

    Your fixit for unstalling and reinstalling did work for me I thank you,
    problem solved.
    Josifus.
     
    Josifus., Apr 7, 2005
    #29
  10. "Josifus.",

    I am glad to hear this solution worked for you, and thank you for writing back
    to let us know!

    Sincerely,

    Pat Walters [MSFT]

     
    Pat Walters [MSFT], Apr 12, 2005
    #30
  11. Coyote Supergenius

    GiGi Guest

    Had the same Problem, update kept sending me KB 837009, I have it installed 9
    times.After reading your input, I uninstalled OE 823353 and from the web
    installed KB 837009. Now I want to reinstall OE 823353, but it is not ment
    for Win 98 SE, I had it before?Do I need it?

    GiGi.





     
    GiGi, Jun 2, 2005
    #31
  12. GiGi,

    Microsoft Security Bulletin MS04-018
    Cumulative Security Update for Outlook Express (823353)
    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms04-018.mspx

    " Frequently asked questions (FAQ) related to this security update

    How does the extended support for Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition,
    and Windows Millennium Edition affect the release of security updates
    for these operating systems?
    Microsoft will only release security updates for critical security
    issues. Non-critical security issues are not offered during this support
    period

    Are Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, or Windows Millennium Edition
    critically affected by any of the vulnerabilities that are addressed in
    this security bulletin?
    No. None of these vulnerabilities are critical in severity on Windows
    98, on Windows 98 Second Edition, or on Windows Millennium Edition. "

    KB823353 is not available for Win 98 SE since it's classified as Moderate.

    HTH,
    MowGreen [MVP 2004-2005]
    ===============
    *-343-* FDNY
    Never Forgotten
    ===============

     
    MowGreen [MVP], Jun 3, 2005
    #32
  13. (Finally)I found a 'tip' on how to get KB837009 to install without popping
    back as needed in Windows Update. Goes like this, download from MS
    downloads.
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/results.aspx?displaylang=en&freeText=kb837009
    find your needed download there. THEN, when installing do it through a
    'Start'/'Run'/ and 'Browse' to where you downloaded it to(dangling
    participle, couldn't be helped). at the end of the 'Path', such as
    C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\Q837009.exe <put a space, then /n:v which will over-ride
    the version check. Otherwise? If it installs without over-riding the version
    check, lucky you. Me? Hadda do it this way.
    Good Luck, Jo
     
    JoAnne Shriner, Jun 5, 2005
    #33
  14. Coyote Supergenius

    steinzilla Guest

    This /n:v method also worked for me. I was also caught in the loop with
    KB837009 continuing to showup each update scan. When I manually installed
    using /n:v, it installed and is now in add/remove, but Q823353 disappeared.
    Running Win98Se so didn't need823353.
     
    steinzilla, Nov 10, 2005
    #34
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