KB931768 problem - ***solved***

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Performance' started by Richard Urban, May 14, 2007.

  1. I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by this
    update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista, Windows Mail
    had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use. Clicking on a post in
    the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show the text in the bottom.
    Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds to bring us a usable reply
    window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the same 2-4 seconds.

    I also stated that I thought it was a program interaction. It took me six
    days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use, rebooting
    and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my system after
    every successful program install so I could go back easily when I found a
    problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

    About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

    Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

    I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
    installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it in
    place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for Vista. It
    just happened to work.

    Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of KB931768

    I installed Spybot S&D - and did not choose to run through the initial
    wizard immediately. I closed down Spybot S&D and tested Windows Mail.
    Everything was fine. After a reboot everything was still fine. I then ran
    through the wizard and retrieved all the available updates for Spybot S&D. I
    again tested Windows Mail and found it to work as it previously had (no
    discernible problems or slow downs).

    I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to apply
    the updates for the program.

    I again started Windows Mail.

    *****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

    Windows Mail had been broken!

    Every adverse condition that I listed above was back in all their glory!

    Now, here is the unfortunate part that is going to cause countless thousands
    of people a bunch of grief. Uninstalling Spybot Search and Destroy (even
    with a reboot) ***DOES NOT*** eliminate the problem and take you back to
    where you were previously. Uninstalling and then using System Restore may -
    if you have just installed Spybot S&D and made no changes to your system
    since. I doubt if too many people would fall into this category.

    Even scouring the file system and deleting all remnants left from the
    install does nothing. Spybot must place, or alter, a registry entry
    somewhere that is not touched by the uninstall process. You will have to
    rebuild your system from scratch and resist the temptation to install Spybot
    Search and Destroy.

    I have not yet tested to see if this also solves the alternate placement
    problem for the Temporary Internet File Folder but I will be testing for
    that as soon as I place this post in the suitable newsgroups. I will also be
    testing for this under Windows XP when I recover from the total exhaustion I
    have been working under for the past 24 hours. (-:

    --


    Regards,

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
    (For email, remove the obvious from my address)

    Quote from George Ankner:
    If you knew as much as you think you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
     
    Richard Urban, May 14, 2007
    #1
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  2. I had also had a problem where I could NOT start Internet Explorer with
    administrator privileges if I stored the Temporary Internet Files in other
    than the default location.. IE would crash when I did so.

    This fix **DOES NOT** solve for that problem. So, there is still more work
    to do. <sigh>

    --


    Regards,

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
    (For email, remove the obvious from my address)

    Quote from George Ankner:
    If you knew as much as you think you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
     
    Richard Urban, May 14, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Richard Urban

    Bill Guest



    I too have been experiencing these delays of several seconds since the last
    updates and was interested to see the results of your hard work. It is one
    of a number of issues which have me seriously contemplating reverting to XP.
    So I was pleased to see your post.

    Interestingly the Spybot site claims "now officially works with Vista" - see
    www.spybot.info/en/news/index.html - 16 April article, obviously before the
    KB931768 update.

    I'm now wondering if you have had any contact with Spybot?

    Thanks - hope you are well rested by the time you read this.

    Bill
     
    Bill, May 14, 2007
    #3
  4. I emailed the identical post to Spybot for their knowledge.

    --


    Regards,

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
    (For email, remove the obvious from my address)

    Quote from George Ankner:
    If you knew as much as you think you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
     
    Richard Urban, May 14, 2007
    #4
  5. Richard Urban

    GTS Guest

    Hand raised! An interesting find. Thanks for the hard work.
    If I can muster the time and ambition, it's tempting to follow you're lead
    and do a pre and post Immunize registry comparison. It seems like that
    would be the only way to find a less drastic fix.
     
    GTS, May 14, 2007
    #5
  6. Richard Urban

    DanS Guest

    I'm sort of wondering why you run Spybot anyway under Vista.

    Doesn't UAC and all the new 'security' in Vista and IE7, along with the MS
    One Care package make Spybot unnecessary ?
     
    DanS, May 14, 2007
    #6
  7. God! That would take me another 24 hours, sifting through the thousands of
    registry entries.

    Besides, I have to finish rebuilding my system. I still have another 40 or
    so programs and applets to install.



    --


    Regards,

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
    (For email, remove the obvious from my address)

    Quote from George Ankner:
    If you knew as much as you think you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
     
    Richard Urban, May 14, 2007
    #7
  8. Richard Urban

    WTC Guest

    All you need to do is remove the Restricted Sites from IE Options and the
    problem is gone, there was no need for a complete re-install. Seen many
    computers affected by this and this is how I fixed the problem.

    HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet
    Settings\ZoneMap\Domains
    And
    HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet
    Settings\ZoneMap\Domains
     
    WTC, May 14, 2007
    #8
  9. <grin>

    You post this NOW, after I spend 6 days. How do you know which program
    placed the sites in the restricted area when many people have multiple anti
    spyware programs installed. Many put web sites there.

    --


    Regards,

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
    (For email, remove the obvious from my address)

    Quote from George Ankner:
    If you knew as much as you think you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
     
    Richard Urban, May 14, 2007
    #9
  10. Richard Urban

    WTC Guest

    I do not know what Sites are added by what programs but Spybot adds a lot of
    them. I just removed them all after a backup of course and the problem went
    away. Having 12,000+ sites in the restrictive zone will eventually cause
    problems. From what I heard, 12,000 malware sites is a very small percentage
    of what is actually out there.
     
    WTC, May 14, 2007
    #10
  11. So, you are suggesting that there is no need for 3rd party anti spyware if
    it places sites (they all do) in the restricted zone?

    SpySweeper also places many there. Removing "all" the sites is crippling
    what the anti spyware programs do. May as well uninstall them all after
    cleaning out the restricted zone as they will no longer do what you expect
    them to do.

    At this point I have no problem with SpySweeper so I will leave it in place,
    restricted sites and all. It is only SpyBot Search and Destroy that causes
    the problem.

    --


    Regards,

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
    (For email, remove the obvious from my address)

    Quote from George Ankner:
    If you knew as much as you think you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
     
    Richard Urban, May 14, 2007
    #11
  12. Richard Urban

    WTC Guest

    WTC, May 15, 2007
    #12
  13. And you are constantly arguing about how productive it is to use Vista.
    ROFL, 6 days of screwing around like that doesn't appear to be too
    productive to me. And lo and behold, the problem ended up being one of the
    condoms you put on Vista to try and keep it secure. And you keep telling us
    how great Vista is and how much you love using it. You sure you haven't
    stopped taking your meds? You and Dr. Frank need to get together. You guys
    can have fun buckling up those white jackets, with long sleeves that strap
    together behind your back.

    Love and Kisses,
    Doris
     
    Doris Day - MFB, May 15, 2007
    #13
  14. Yep, seems like a pretty vain hope to try and protect ones computer by
    keeping a list as large as that of sites that shouldn't be visited. Why not
    just move on over to a secure operating system? Then you can do away with
    all this nonsense and the need to wear multi-condoms to try and protect
    your system.

    Love and Kisses,
    Doris
     
    Doris Day - MFB, May 15, 2007
    #14
  15. Hopefully you'll get it rebuilt one day and be able to tell us again how
    great it is to use Vista. How long do you expect it'll take to get those 40
    or so programs installed?

    Love and Kisses,
    Doris
     
    Doris Day - MFB, May 15, 2007
    #15
  16. I hope there's someone around to pick the poor fella off the floor when he
    finishes reading your email. I'm sure he'll ROFL. Thankfully, I had my
    seatbelt on before reading your original post. Can never be too safe around
    a Vista newsgroup you know.

    Love and Kisses,
    Doris
     
    Doris Day - MFB, May 15, 2007
    #16
  17. Windows Defender manages to do an equivalent job without
    adding anything to the Restricted sites listing.

    Gary VanderMolen
     
    Gary VanderMolen, May 15, 2007
    #17
  18. Thanks
     
    James Matthews, May 15, 2007
    #18
  19. Richard Urban

    ...winston Guest

    Richard,
    Nice find.. Wtg!!
    Just a few points on Spybot to echo your comments and put a few more items
    in perspective.
    1. In a default install with all current definition updates through 5/15/07
    retrieved Spybot will protect against ~15,100 items.
    2. The default install prior to clicking on 'immunize' does not add any
    sites to the restricted zone.
    3. Immunization will add as of 5/15/07 ~3250 sites to the restricted
    zone(ref. Sandi blog per WTC' s post. Where the other 9,000 come from..I am
    not sure. I've been running AdAware, SuperSpyware, Spybot, and (don't
    shudder) NSW2006/NAV with Internet Worm Protection without issue in an XP
    environment and none of them have found anything beyond the routine
    non-malware finds(cookies, recent run, etc) in years. My surfing is
    controlled and limited. On this Vista machine, strictly N360 resident and
    Defender, Spybot and CrapCleaner as non resident supplements.
    4. Spybot as a tool can still be run without immunization especially if its
    used as an non-background supplementary 'layered' tool to Vista's Windows
    Defender and a capable AV programI(I currently use Kaspersky and N360 - one
    on each machine).
    *** 5.*** If one immunizes with Spybot, and here's another oddity. The
    Windows Mail delay appears to be alleviated by opening the Windows Calendar
    within Windows Mail.
    - you may or may not recall a few months ago I reported in the
    msft.public.vista.mail group the Windows Mail delay 'weirdly' being improved
    after the Calendar was opened in Windows Mail.
    - it is still unclear why the Calendar has any impact whatsoever on
    Windows Mail performance, though its positive result has been verified by at
    last four other people(not sure if Spybot was installed on those systems-
    I'll ask in the future<g>) in these forums and a few more in two other
    private forums. The quantity of those results may not be statistically
    significant, but regardless are positive findings.

    Fortunately, I did not experience the KB931768 issue on two Vista Ultimate
    systems, nor on the one XP machine running IE7(the other two run IE6) with
    the TIF files located on a stand alone partition on a different ide
    drive(slave), thus can't offer any options on that subject(lol..after
    reading all the problems, I keep clicking and waiting for Armageddon, and as
    insurance increased my image frequency<g>)

    Nice find, and good luck on the rebuild and much needed shut-eye.

    ...winston
     
    ...winston, May 15, 2007
    #19
  20. Richard Urban

    BChat Guest

    I too use Spybot S&D. Thanks for the info Richard, your efforts are
    appreciated.
    BChat


    I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by this
    update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista, Windows Mail
    had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use. Clicking on a post in
    the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show the text in the bottom.
    Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds to bring us a usable reply
    window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the same 2-4 seconds.

    I also stated that I thought it was a program interaction. It took me six
    days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use, rebooting
    and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my system after
    every successful program install so I could go back easily when I found a
    problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

    About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

    Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

    I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
    installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it in
    place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for Vista. It
    just happened to work.

    Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of KB931768

    I installed Spybot S&D - and did not choose to run through the initial
    wizard immediately. I closed down Spybot S&D and tested Windows Mail.
    Everything was fine. After a reboot everything was still fine. I then ran
    through the wizard and retrieved all the available updates for Spybot S&D. I
    again tested Windows Mail and found it to work as it previously had (no
    discernible problems or slow downs).

    I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to apply
    the updates for the program.

    I again started Windows Mail.

    *****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

    Windows Mail had been broken!

    Every adverse condition that I listed above was back in all their glory!

    Now, here is the unfortunate part that is going to cause countless thousands
    of people a bunch of grief. Uninstalling Spybot Search and Destroy (even
    with a reboot) ***DOES NOT*** eliminate the problem and take you back to
    where you were previously. Uninstalling and then using System Restore may -
    if you have just installed Spybot S&D and made no changes to your system
    since. I doubt if too many people would fall into this category.

    Even scouring the file system and deleting all remnants left from the
    install does nothing. Spybot must place, or alter, a registry entry
    somewhere that is not touched by the uninstall process. You will have to
    rebuild your system from scratch and resist the temptation to install Spybot
    Search and Destroy.

    I have not yet tested to see if this also solves the alternate placement
    problem for the Temporary Internet File Folder but I will be testing for
    that as soon as I place this post in the suitable newsgroups. I will also be
    testing for this under Windows XP when I recover from the total exhaustion I
    have been working under for the past 24 hours. (-:

    --


    Regards,

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
    (For email, remove the obvious from my address)

    Quote from George Ankner:
    If you knew as much as you think you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
     
    BChat, May 15, 2007
    #20
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