Manage Network cards

Discussion in 'Server Networking' started by Ted, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. Ted

    Ted Guest

    I have a small Peer To Peer LAN with 6 Win XP computers.
    I had one Gigabit Switch with Internet router connected to it.
    Employees were over using the Internet slowing down the network,
    so I added another Gigabit network card to each computer and another
    Gigabit switch.
    On the network that is connected to the router, I disallowed print
    and file sharing and firewalled it. While the other I allowed file and
    print sharing and disabled the firewall. Hoping Windows would
    have enough brain and use the first network for Internet access,
    and the other for the local network.
    But unfortunately networking and Internet access didn't get much
    better.
    Is there a way to manage network cards traffic ?
     
    Ted, Aug 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. No they weren't. There is no way that users browsing the Internet is going
    to slow down a Gigabit Link,...it just isn't going to happen. On top of
    that a Switch isolates traffic between the Source and Destination of every
    connection so that no other machine ever sees the traffic.

    If the network was slowing down, then something else was the cause.
    No that won't work like you think and is has nothing to do with Windows
    having enough brains,...it has to do with the way TCP/IP works (and doesn't
    work),...and TCP/IP wasn't invented by MS.

    The solution is to run one Nic in each machine,...hook all the machines into
    the gigabit Switch,...then also plug the Internet NAT Device into the
    Switch. Make sure the Cables are high enough quality and catagory for
    Gigabit speeds.

    --
    Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
    www.wandtv.com
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
    http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Aug 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. Ted

    Guest Guest

    Ted,

    The maximum bandwidth use by a DSL Internet connection is @
    1-1.5Mbps. That is no where near your Gigabit switch. Something else
    might be causing the traffic on your LAN.

    Is it just the Internet slow or is your LAN slow? For Internet, do a
    bandwidth test on your Internet connection. The problems might be
    from the ISP. If it's the LAN, you might want to check the computers
    for virus/trojans.

    Also make sure all the cables are CAT5e or higher.
     
    Guest, Aug 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Ted

    Ted Guest

    The Internet is slow, specially when all share the
    same bandwidth allowed.
    The transfer rate of a Gigabit switch is only theory.
    I tried and copied 1.5 GB file from one drive to another,
    it took it 38 seconds, while it took it 6 minutes across
    a Gigabit network.
    If a slow Internet access is going to slow the network,
    then the alternative is have another network to allow
    other network traffic.
    Listening to music over the Internet requires downloading
    the music file to the computer, listening to live TV is 100
    times larger files to download.
    In theory Internet access in a Gigabit network is not going
    use all networking resources, but in practice the whole network
    freezes when 2 or three listen to music for example.

    You as a network engineer, what would you do if the network
    bottle neck ? How would you distribute traffic to prevent
    bottle necking ?
     
    Ted, Aug 6, 2005
    #4
  5. 1.5 gig on mine if probably 20 minutes. You don't have anything to complain
    about.
    It will not slow down the network. It just won't,..plain and simple.
    Streaming video/audio is not intensive as far as the LAN is concerned,...it
    only travels at the bitrate it was encoded to run at and no more than that.
    A streaming video encoded to run at 500kbps (considered "high quality") is
    not going to bother a line running at 1*M*bps. Simple File Copying of the
    most intensive.
    The bottlenect is most likely the machine. The processor the drives and the
    buss speed can only handle so much. When testing, use two machines (copy a
    file between them) that are *not* doing any of the other things at the same
    time.

    --
    Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
    www.wandtv.com
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
    http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Aug 8, 2005
    #5
  6. Ok. Is it "web based",...that is, is it using an HTML/ASP front end to the
    database,..or is it a regular application installed on the workstation that
    serves as the "front end" to the database running on the Server?
    That could easily be caused by the workstation itself not responding quickly
    and not have anything to do with the Network. If the Application on the
    client side is a compiled installed application (not web based) and has too
    big a "footprint" on the machine then it may not respond well if anything
    else is being done on the workstation at the same time. Hit Ctrl-Alt-Del,
    bring up the Task Manager and select the Performance Tab. Do this on the
    Server and the Workstations at the same time. Watch the Mem and CPU graphs
    at the time that this occurs. It is fine if either the MEM or CPU "spike"
    for a moment, but they should not stay high.

    I can tell you that we only run standard 100mbps on our network of about 100
    machines. We are a TV News Station with all kinds of stuff flying around on
    the network and yet it shows only running at about 50% capacity at the
    "peak" time and I have pretty much no trouble with it. It is a rather boring
    situation most days.

    We do have one Application used for CNN & ABC on the Clients that uses a
    Database on a Server which could be very similar to yours. It is a very
    wreched thing and has always been the source of its own troubles and never
    the network itself being the source of the trouble.
    That is unrealistic. You 'd have to go back to typewriters and pencils. If
    it is a computer it will break, it will screw up, it will have problems,
    there will be downtime. That is just the way it is. I'm not implying you
    don't have a problem,...but at this point I don't know what to say about it
    beyond what has already been said.

    --
    Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
    www.wandtv.com
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
    http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Aug 8, 2005
    #6
  7. Ted

    Ted Guest

    The bottlenect is most likely the machine. The processor the drives and the
    No body plays at the main computer acting like a server,
    or the hard working employees workstations.
    But these computers have hard time accessing the network
    when the other computers are over using the network.
    Listening to music is one problem.
    How about continuously downloading music files, or downloading
    large size files.
    Every second these employees tie up the network, the server
    can't reach the workstations to refresh current data changes.

    The way it works, the workstation request make changes to
    the databases, sends a message to the server to do the changes.
    The server makes the changes and refreshes the workstations
    to show the changes.
    If the server can't go through to all workstations, it is
    going to freeze the server for few seconds for each
    workstation it can't reach.
    We simply can't afford these few seconds, the network
    operation has to go much smoother, and non stop.
    Customers are waiting, telephones are ringing, and simply
    there is no time to go troubleshoot the network, not even
    once a week or once a month.


     
    Ted, Aug 8, 2005
    #7
  8. Ted

    Ted Guest

    Ok. Is it "web based",...
    No it is not.
    The memory is fine.
    That is true in some sense, but if the computer is not
    accessible or can't be seen on the network, the server
    is going to come back with Network Access errors.
    The time it takes the server access the workstations
    amounts to less than a second.
    that is just an escape route :)

    The thing is, Microsoft keeps updating IE, and the Media player
    day and night, adding features and more features. But ignoring
    outdated TCP/IP.
    The thing is DSL and Cable came around, and Microsoft has
    not thought of network resources has been hijacked by internet use.

    It is very convenient for a home to have Internet access through
    the network, but not a business.
    That is why EU demanded Windows XP without the Media player.
    In Win 95 days having IE or Netscape installed in a business
    computer was a no-no. So were sound cards, now sound cards
    comes integrated, and the boss is fruitier than the employees.






     
    Ted, Aug 9, 2005
    #8
  9. It is true in the exact sense,..not just "some sense". If the CPU doesn't
    respond "in time" because it is busy you will get a network access error
    even if the network itself is perfectly fine.
    There is nothing about TCP/IP being "outdated" or "not outdated" that is
    going to be the cause of your problem.
    DSL and Cable were designed for, and always have been for Home Users. It is
    a "home user" technology and not originally meant for businesses. It has
    only become popular among businesses because it is "cheap", not because it
    is really the right thing for the job.
    You're never going to solve your problem by sitting around blaming
    Microsoft. If they were the cause we would all have the same problem at the
    same time and there would not be a solution. But we aren't having the same
    problem as you are with even slower 100mbps systems. You have some kind of
    design or configuration problem, but there really is no way I or anyone here
    can know what that would be beyond just making "wild guesses" because we are
    all figurativley speaking working with a blindfold on to figure out
    something on a network that we have never seen, never designed, never setup,
    and have no background knowledge on.


    --
    Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
    www.wandtv.com
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
    http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Aug 9, 2005
    #9
  10. Ted

    Guest Guest

    Ted,
    If this database application is not web based, can you tell us what's
    it in? Access? Foxpro? SQL 2002? Your database application maybe
    the one slowing down your network. How big is the database file(s)?


    Again, I'm sure having 2-3 employees listen to streaming news on the
    Internet will not slow down your network. It will slow down your
    Internet speed by max out the Internet download bandwidth. But has
    nothing to do with max your LAN bandwidth.
     
    Guest, Aug 9, 2005
    #10
  11. Ted

    Guest Guest


    This is where you are wrong.

    Access and Foxpro are a file based database. If a user run a report
    or a query, all the tables involved are copied across the network from
    the server to the client. Imagine a 500MB Access database (this is
    quite common if you don't compact the mdb file often) are copy across
    the network. What do you think will happen to your network bandwidth?

    With a SQL Server, only the results for the report/query are sent to
    the client.

    What I am trying to get at is that you may be chasing the wrong tail.
    Without getting the whole picture, it's hard to pin point the problem.

    Try doing a search for Network Sniffer. This kind of problem *might*
    help you to determine the source and dest of all the traffic on your
    network (depending on your network topology).
     
    Guest, Aug 9, 2005
    #11
  12. Ted

    Ted Guest

    It is true in the exact sense,..not just "some sense". If the CPU doesn't
    This is an assumption, there is nothing wrong with CPU.
    Traffic doesn't move paralleled in a network,it has only
    one lane, and no passing lanes. if the lane is tied up
    by a slow process temporarily, then no other applications
    can go through until its cleared.
    Try download two downloads from the Internet, it will take
    it three times as much than downloading them separately.






     
    Ted, Aug 9, 2005
    #12
  13. Ted

    Ted Guest

    it in? Access? Foxpro? SQL 2002?
    Doesn't matter what method is used, it is no issue.
    You can't limit a network software for what it can do.
     
    Ted, Aug 9, 2005
    #13
  14. Ted

    Ted Guest

    Database (non MS), is accessed through network, simple database
    file that can be opened by many computers.
    It takes few second to open it when you first open it.
    Workstation sends a request to the server to make changes.
    The server makes the changes, then sends a message to the
    workstations to refresh.

    The main database doesn't refresh automatically though, it
    has to be done manually. If a search is done on the main database,
    then it prompts the user to refresh to see recent additions or changes.
    The work in progress, inventory and reports do refresh automatically
    if opened, they are very small, normally less than 50 KB.
    Refreshing them takes less than a second.

    The server has one extra application that make changes on the
    main database, so it doesn't get tied up if database is too large.
    The server can use dual processor or dual core, I admit it that.
    But network access has always been the problem, when the server
    can't access the workstation, it freezes for few seconds, before it
    kicks it out from getting notified to refresh.
    The kicked out workstation tries to re-establish its existence when
    it have to refresh it manually.
    All messaging is done using tiny files (1 KB) and timers.

    The software is made for small network, less than 8 computers.
    The main database maximum size does not get larger than 10 MB.
    The software runs very smooth when Internet is down.
     
    Ted, Aug 9, 2005
    #14
  15. Mine does it quicker than doing each separately.

    --
    Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
    www.wandtv.com
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
    http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Aug 10, 2005
    #15
  16. Yes it does matter, and no one is going to help you if you aren't going to
    cooperate. We do this for free because we are "nice guys",...no one is
    paying us to do it.

    --
    Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
    www.wandtv.com
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
    http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Aug 10, 2005
    #16
  17. Those types are not meant for multi-user access.
    That will always be true. The problems come after that.
    That behaves like a web-based front end.
    It will certainly get tied up,...but not because of size. It will due to the
    mechanics of file system access. When a process opens a file any subsequent
    processes can only open the file as "read-only" unitl the first process
    releases it. This is why true multi-user databases are not based on a
    "simple database file". They always use a Database Server which represents
    a single process and therfore can access the data all it wants to and the
    userss simply access the "Server Services".


    --
    Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
    www.wandtv.com
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
    http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Aug 10, 2005
    #17
  18. Ted

    Ted Guest

    They are.
    It is not the typical database file.
    It is third party control, and it is meant to be used by multi users.
    Since the server suppose to make the changes, workstations
    don't have the save options. Otherwise access is Read/Write.



     
    Ted, Aug 10, 2005
    #18
  19. A file is still a file and filesystem access is still filesystem access. It
    may be "meant" to be multi-user because the programmer that wrote the
    application wanted it to be, but that doesn't mean it actually does it very
    well. If all programmers knew exactly what they were doing and why, and
    actually did it the proper way,...computers would never have problems and my
    job would be a lot easier.

    I don't know what to tell you. I don't know exactly what the problem
    is,...but I am reasonably convinced that it is not the "network" itself.

    --
    Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
    www.wandtv.com
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
    http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

    Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
    http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Aug 10, 2005
    #19
  20. Ted

    Ted Guest

    I don't know what to tell you. I don't know exactly what the problem
    Thank you very much for your help.
    Was just hoping that networking can be re-directed to an alternate
    network, if current is tied up.





     
    Ted, Aug 10, 2005
    #20
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