Microsoft announces Windows Vista SP1

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by Tom Porterfield, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. More info at
    http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/w...ng-the-windows-vista-service-pack-1-beta.aspx.

    High level of what will be in SP1

    "In addition to updates we’ve previously released, SP1 will contain
    changes focused on addressing specific reliability and performance
    issues we’ve identified via customer feedback, supporting new types of
    hardware, and adding support for several emerging standards. SP1 also
    makes additional improvements to the IT administration experience. We
    didn’t design SP1 as a vehicle for releasing new features; however, some
    existing components do gain enhanced functionality in SP1."

    For additional details see
    http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/w...ows-vista-service-pack-1-beta-whitepaper.aspx

    Beta status:

    "A Beta release of Windows Vista SP1 is slated for availability in the
    next few weeks. A small group of testers has been putting a preview of
    the SP1 Beta through its paces to help prepare for broader release. We
    made the choice to start with a very small group of testers because we
    think it’s better for both our customers and for Microsoft to keep the
    beta program small at the start.

    A later pre-release of SP1 will be available to a larger group of
    testers via MSDN and TechNet subscribers."

    Final release:

    "We're targeting releasing SP1 to manufacturing in the first quarter of
    2008, but as always, we’re first and foremost focused on delivering a
    high-quality release, so we'll determine the exact release date of SP1
    after we have reached that quality bar."
     
    Tom Porterfield, Aug 29, 2007
    #1
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  2. Tom Porterfield

    Chad Harris Guest

    It's long overdue that MSFT makes WinRE available to millions of end users
    who bought pre-loaded machines from OEM Named partners except Dell who were
    forced by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD.

    Unfortunately it's not scheduled until the first quarter of 2008 or beyond.
    It's been abundant on the Torrents for a month.

    That phenomenon also accounts for the several posts per 24 hours we see here
    and in the setup group that are laced with "I can't boot to Vista and I
    don't have a DVD" or "I can't open my control panel or access Add/Remove"
    and "I don't have a DVD."

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Aug 29, 2007
    #2
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  3. "...forced by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD"
    The OEMs have options of which that is one so I doubt your statement
    is completely true.
    Many OEMs simply choose what is cheapest as many customers demand the
    lowest price.
    However I await the source for your comment showing OEMS were forced
    not to provide a DVD and also has no other options.
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Aug 30, 2007
    #3
  4. Tom Porterfield

    Chad Harris Guest

    I know the fanboy component of you wants to say that but you cannot show me
    any of the substantive evidence that the OEMs have the option you always
    say they do. Many of them have shown me language in their contracts with
    MSFT that force this to happen. It's a topic no one wants to discuss at
    MSFT, and obviously not those of their MVPs who are fanboys. It's a lot
    like Rove and Gonzales defending whatever the Bush administration lies
    about.

    One of the driving forces that short changes customers at MSFT is Scott Di
    Valerio OEM VP who is so paranoid that his office is closed off to the
    public by phone! Most people who know who they want to reach at the Redmond
    campus can easily do so. But not Scott. Scott makes Cheney look outgoing
    and personable. Appropriate for the OEM VP he has training as an accountant
    but no training as a system builder and no training in IT whatsoever.

    Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering the DVD at a price
    point.

    Only Dell bucked MSFT with Vista by shipping the DVD with each new box sale.

    You also conveniently neglect the messy ugly fact that we see here every day
    and night--the person with a significant Vista problem or problems,
    sometimes no boot and sometimes they can boot. The hidden partition or
    recovery disk fails completely, and they don't have a DVD to use Win RE's
    Startup Repair or it's System Restore access among other options to try to
    fix Vista.

    That's one reason after finally listening to the feedback of leaving their
    end users up a creek without a paddle, that MSFT is shipping Win RE with
    every Vista SP1 when it finally is released to the public sometime around
    the first quarter of 2008.

    Vista SP1 in alpha/beta and soon to be released more widely to Beta testers
    is readily available all over the web having leaked as usual to Torrents.

    http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/w...ows-vista-service-pack-1-beta-whitepaper.aspx

    http://blogs.technet.com/windowsserver/archive/2007/08/29/windows-server-2008-timing-update.aspx

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Aug 30, 2007
    #4
  5. "...the fanboy component of you..."
    Start with an insult, typical of you when you have nothing of value to
    contribute.
    Are you able to deal with the issues or are you driven by a need to
    insult others, we shall see.

    You say a lot of words but you can not prove your point.
    It is no more than a theory that you push probably because your
    dislike of Microsoft.
    In other words, it is your opinion and NOT a fact as you suggest.
    The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media proves there is that
    option.
    There is no need for me to post anything documenting what we can all
    easily see simply by checking with an OEM.
    That is the "substantive evidence" you already know exists but seem to
    ignore.

    "Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering..."
    Who says?
    Some do, but why must they?
    It would be better for their customers, but that is not always what
    drives business.
    An OEM not providing an option does NOTHING to prove they can't.
    I wish they all did, but neither you or I dictate how they run their
    businesses.

    "Many of them have shown me language..."
    This is no more than hearsay unless you post a verifiable source.
    Exactly What?
    The details you do not provide tell as much or more than what little
    you do provide.

    "You also conveniently neglect..."
    Not at all, why you make such an assumption only you know.
    You never asked.

    "Only Dell bucked MSFT..."
    Dell was not forced, other OEMs have the same options.
    Of course if you can show your source to prove otherwise?

    Typical of you avoiding the question while throwing insults and even a
    little irrelevant politics.
    Typical of those lacking confidence in their views that you need to
    prop them up with such irrelevancies.
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Aug 30, 2007
    #5
  6. Tom Porterfield

    Chad Harris Guest

    Able to deal with the issues? Confidence lacking in my views? LOL. Which
    issues and views? I fix as many things here as you do and as well when I
    have time. I try to help here and other groups when I think I can. I
    wasn't insulting you personally, although your paranoia leaped to the
    occasion, but while I know the MVP Code of Conduct to stay in good standing
    (implied if not written) is to defend MSFT at all times, that to me is not
    constructive criticism.

    I have defended them plenty when it's warranted. However, during XP and
    during Vista, their efforts to suprress OEM computer makers from shipping a
    DVD (and they are real) is not in the best interests of their customers.
    They have finally absolved this sin by offering it in Vista SP1 although not
    for many months to the public. It's been in alpha testing and available to
    a small group of testers now. The public needs Win RE yesterday.

    I don't see anything that would fall into the category of concrete evidence
    that you've offered. First of all you know it's not conincidence that over
    300 OEM Named partners didn't ship an XP CD for six years, a Win 2K CD for
    years prior, and don't ship a Vista DVD. That's not by accident or
    serindepity.

    It's intriguing to me that MSFT is adamant that no one will discuss it.
    They absolutely have turned somersaults to avoid talking about it when
    asked,and I've done it many times. The setup and restore/backup personnel
    always insisted that OEMs were shipping Win RE on a partition or a disc, and
    it didn't take much time to research and discover that absolutely was not
    the case. They knew it wasn't, and finally in several months while they
    aren't shipping a DVD to everyone who purchased a pre-loaded Vista PC --they
    will at least deliver Win RE via SP1.

    You have the elliptical connections of an MVP to Redmond; you have a
    "handler" or a contact person. Put the question to them. See how much
    smoke and mirrors you'll evoke. Get them to tell you about the contracts
    generated out of Scott Di Valerio's office. I've been specific, and you've
    been full of generalities.

    You've been on this group a long time. I wonder how many value judgements
    you make a year that are as wrong as the perception that I "disklike" MSFT.
    That's just not the case. I get a lot out of their software and their
    websites, know a good number of them, have learned a lot from them and their
    sites and their blogs and continue to, and I have a pretty decent command of
    their resources that aren't purely developer oriented.

    If I dislkied MSFT, why would I spend as much time as I do helping their end
    users/customers on this group and others to fix Windows (and other
    software). That's a ludicrous assertion and you have nothing to back it up.

    However, I know the reality is, even with improved compressed backup in
    Vista, and slightly less functionality in backup in Win One Care, the
    availability of reliable programs like Acronis, and the wide array of
    external or portable hard drives available at lower prices.that the majority
    of people are simply still not going to backup. MSFT bloggers have pegged
    that number at as high as 75% of Windows users. I hope that number will go
    down in the next few years in some kind of herd immunity movement, but I'm a
    realist.

    I have always felt strongly that if someone allows MSFT and the OEM Named
    partners to make a huge profit, they owe their loyal customers a reliable
    way to recover instead of intentionally denying it as they have.

    Actually what you say is fluff. You "all can't simply check with an OEM."
    How would you? Phone up the salaried sales person in their small cube and
    ask them? Actually it would take some digging. Your blow off is pretty
    transparent. You don't want to know the answer so you make it up. I gave
    you the specific MO and I told you who is largely responsible for the
    decision at Redmond. Try using your MVPness to get to Scott Di Valerio's
    office. They will probably lie to you and deny it anyway.

    What drives business for the most part at Microsoft is simple--profit.

    I don't think you can provide me with the name of one OEM named partner who
    provides the DVD for Vista except Dell.

    "The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media" Whoops name one other OEM that
    provides a Vista DVD. I'm not talking about media. Recovery discs are
    media and most of them work as well as a hip hop CD/DVD to repair Vista or
    XP.

    I wasn't looking to dictate how OEMs run their businesses. I'm just in the
    position of trying to put Vista or other Windows OS's back together when
    they're broken, same as you are. I'd like to have the tools in MSFT's
    customer's hands to help them do this more successfully and effectively.

    It is a little bit curious, but not surprising why people who are
    developers, PMS and testers, and writer liasons on the
    setup/recovery/backup/SR teams kept insisting that Win RE was available via
    OEMs on media and pre-setup partitions (hidden and unhidden) because they
    were in a position to find out otherwise and most of them if not all of them
    knew that wasn't the case. A couple button pushes on their cells/ or their
    MSN Mess would have underscored that.

    You weren't the stunt double for Marty Short when he played the character of
    the lawyer Ed Grimley on Saturday Night Live by any chance were you?

    http://www.katfm.com/images/80s_nerds/Ed_Grimley.jpg

    What's stopping you from picking up your phone, calling Di Valerio's office,
    and asking the pointed questions about the contracts they do enforce besides
    Fan Boy fantasy?

    The fact that MSFT has denied the OS on CDs during Win 2K and Win XP and
    during Vista to millions of users is hardly "irrelevant." It's important,
    it's onpoint, and accounts for the multitude of posts here every day and
    every week that have the tell tale phrase "I don't have a Vista DVD" in
    them.

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Aug 30, 2007
    #6
  7. A lot of words and still no proof.
    You CHOOSE to ignore the evidence I gave, how convenient for your
    agenda.

    More justifications of your insults, only you know of your need to
    insult instead of dealing with simply the facts.

    Post back when you can post without your need to insult.
    Otherwise your post will simply be to boost your own ego as no other
    purpose will be served.

    --
    Jupiter Jones [MVP]
    http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
    http://www.dts-l.org
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Aug 30, 2007
    #7
  8. Tom Porterfield

    Chad Harris Guest

    "Jupiter" --

    I didn't ignore evidence; you didn't offer any. I don't know how clear I
    can make this.

    MSFT's OEM VP has orchestrated no shipping of Windows OS DVDs by OEMs in a
    contract for years. His name is Scott Di Valerio. His objective and that
    of his collegues have been greed. MSFT has shown next to no concern that
    these customers can fix the OS when it won't boot or is significantly and
    systemically broken. When you add to the fact that Vista shipped 6-8 months
    before memory issues, stability and reliability and performance issues were
    fixed, that compounds the wrong.


    Why in the world do you think Dell, a company who alleged to the NYT that
    they spent $100 million dollars during this year responding to customers,
    opted to go to the expense to ship a Vista DVD? You think it was just
    whimsy/serendipity?

    http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx
    "Other users have expressed concern about not having the operating system
    reinstallation CD when they need it. When ordering a new machine, all
    consumers and corporate customers can opt for the Windows CD for around $10.
    Additionally, since July 2004, most new PCs (Dell gaming systems all ship
    with the OS CD)come pre-loaded with a disk partition that contains PC
    Restore, an applcation that allows users to reinstall system software
    quickly. See these instructions for how to use PC Restore to reinstall the
    operating system and Dell factory-installed applications in about 10
    minutes.

    Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell employees
    for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post. When I wrote this,
    the OS media was listed as an option in the configurator for $0. I mis-read
    the number, and for that mistake, I apologize. Also, though this been in
    the works for some time before now, it's now official. For U.S. consumer
    and small business customers, all systems will now ship with an operating
    system disc. This change will take effect in Europe by later next month. In
    Asia, things are unchanged—we've always shipped OS discs with systems
    there."

    A patch to remedy a major memory problem in Vista was released on 8/27/07.
    Vista should not have been released until that problem and many others had
    been resolved. SP1s fixes are far short of what remains unaddressed.

    X86
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=A156E265-40FF-468E-BBA2-3D1E1929C416

    X64
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=18499035-F799-4F93-BB3C-DB70E22E1C1E

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Aug 30, 2007
    #8
  9. "you didn't offer any"
    The fact some OEMs provide media is the proof.
    Easily checked on websites or sometimes by calling.
    Dell is a good example.

    "MSFT's OEM VP has orchestrated no shipping..."
    Dell and others provide media proving incorrect your statement "forced
    by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD"
    Dell demonstrates there is a choice.

    As for Dell responding to customer demand, that is usually good when
    business responds positively to customers.
    However this is not really relevant as I never said dell should not or
    could not.
    I did say the OEMs have options and Dell is one of the better at
    providing what the customer needs.
    People need to contact the OEMs they plan to purchase and ask if media
    is included.
    If not, they should look elsewhere as there are other options.
    Then contact the unsatisfactory OEM and tell them what was purchase
    and from whom.
    If enough do so, other OEMs will need to provide at least a media
    option or risk losing customers.
    As long as many customers have price as the major factor, computers
    will probably continue to ship without.

    On the other Microsoft Office is nearly as you describe, but even then
    the OEMs have options.

    --
    Jupiter Jones [MVP]
    http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
    http://www.dts-l.org
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Aug 30, 2007
    #9
  10. When you going to start pretending Chad is "stalking" you?

    You're nothing but a typical pompous MVP blowhard.
     
    Adam Albright, Aug 30, 2007
    #10
  11. Tom Porterfield

    Chad Harris Guest

    Jupiter--

    Dell is the *only example out of over 300 OEM Named partners that told MSFT
    they were under pressure to satisfy their customers with major financial
    changes looming for them and they weren't going to bow to MSFT's edict.

    That's because Scott Di Valerio and MSFT enforce a penalty clause in their
    contracts for any other OEM that ships a DVD. Interestingly they put the
    squeeze on OEM system builders--the little guys who stay very well informed,
    genuinely care for their customers and provide high quality service by
    forcing them to ship genuine media.

    They have been questioned sharply two years in a row at OEM meetings and
    have brushed it off with a sassy "When you guys start shipping 50, 000
    machines" we'll talk about releasing you from that requirement. They impose
    the requirement not to ship on their OEM named partners--pure and simple.

    It was my experience and impression that while Dell has done an awfully good
    job of making hardware and putting it together in computers with incredible
    precision and timing, including amalgamating ancillary hdw component
    companies to locate literally on their campus so that shipping can be
    immediate their support like MSFT's phone support hs left much to be
    desired. They received a lot of feedback on this. $100 million is a lot of
    money to pour into customer support if that's indeed what Dell actually did.

    I learned years ago that Dell like MSFT farms out their PSS (phone support)
    outsourcing it to companies like Convergys in India. These are minimum
    waged and poorly and superficialy trained personnel and many of their fixes
    for problems are eggregiously and attociously pathetic, and the quality of
    help on these type MSFT groups is far and away better.

    I agree with you entirely people should be as prescient as you suggest and
    contact the OEMS as to what they provide but the answer is the same from all
    of them save Dell. They'll claim their recovery media or partitions are
    fantastic but the simple fact is they are short of code and files that are
    contained on the Vista DVD/XP CD. So that leaves the customer without
    choice particularly many people who are tightly budgeted.

    They need computers--and they have to buy them from somewhere unless they
    are the minority who get great satisfaction from building their own and
    choosing their components.

    The OEMs name partners also have always shipped lower end PSUs and the
    majority of buyers don't get into upgrading their power supplies unless they
    are forced to by say, the addition of a new video card.

    It is encouraging that MSFT has elected to do something in this upcoming
    Vista SP that they didn't do with any of the XP or Win 2K XPs--because Win
    RE's Startup Repair can fix a lot of problems (and they don't have to be no
    boots as the Win RE team keeps insisting). with a fair amount of success
    although not in my experience with the percent of success that a repair
    install with the DVD can do.

    Backups are going to get easier and easier and more "automatic" and that
    will increase the number of people who don't lose everything if the OS goes
    down the tubes--although they are awfully easy to do now. "Acronis-type"
    software gets better and better every year.

    MSFT Office is another example. It does have Detect and Repair prior to
    2007 and Office Diagnostics in Office 2007 that can be launched from All
    Programs>Office tools if someone can't open any Office applications, and
    many Office problems are pretty error specific as to their fixes. However, a
    good number of them will prompt you to insert the Office CD, and that
    presents a problem when you don't have one.

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Aug 30, 2007
    #11
  12. Tom Porterfield

    Lang Murphy Guest


    Chad doesn't post unprovoked attacks on others. You do.

    Chad -does- respond in a civil manner when others disagree with him. You
    don't.

    Waiting for the pompous, crude, insulting response.

    Lang
     
    Lang Murphy, Aug 30, 2007
    #12
  13. Tom Porterfield

    dennis@home Guest

    Samsung provided a DVD with my system and its pre-activated too.. never
    asked to be activated at all when I reinstalled Vista without all the
    samsung provided software from the DVD, not even the key.
    I suppose they must be paying huge penalty payments to M$.
     
    dennis@home, Aug 30, 2007
    #13
  14. That is not an insult JJ, it's a fact.
    --
    Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
    http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

    "Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
    free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
    creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
    rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
    - Maura Corbett
     
    The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly , Aug 30, 2007
    #14
  15. Well said by one that needs to insult others.
    Some let the facts speak for themselves while those insure in their
    positions need to insult others to prop up their position.
    If you are able and secure in your position post accordingly,
    otherwise we expect more insults.

    --
    Jupiter Jones [MVP]
    http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
    http://www.dts-l.org


    "The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Aug 30, 2007
    #15
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