Microsoft Mulls Upgrade Coupons For Vista Around Holidays

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by MICHAEL, Aug 17, 2006.


    MICHAEL Guest

    August 17, 2006

    Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) is in talks with its partners about offering computer buyers coupons
    that could allow those who purchase new PCs around the holidays to upgrade for free to its
    upcoming Windows Vista operating system.

    Vista isn't expected to reach consumers until January and some industry watchers have expressed
    concern the release date could weigh on sales of PCs during the important holiday season.

    "We are talking with all our partners about plans for an offer, but those discussions are
    ongoing and we have nothing more to share at this time," a spokesperson for Redmond,
    Wash.-based Microsoft said.

    "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools,
    but that the lightning ain't distributed right."
    - Mark Twain
    MICHAEL, Aug 17, 2006
    1. Advertisements

  2. This would be pretty standard practice. I had a coupon from Compaq for my
    laptop I bought just before XP came out that upgraded ME to XP. Great
    promo, but there were real limitations. For one, it did not include a copy
    of XP, just a restore type cd. Also, ME had to be on the drive before the
    cd would work. And of course there was no way to get anything but Home. I
    wound up buying my own Pro, doing a clean installation, and then getting the
    drivers and utilities from the Compaq site. It seems that an upgrade from
    ME made for a problematical XP for me.
    Colin Barnhorst, Aug 17, 2006
    1. Advertisements


    deebs Guest

    Fingers crossed, let's hope all goes well.
    deebs, Aug 17, 2006

    Chad Harris Guest

    MSFT has absolutely no choice. Crossing your fingers has nothing to do with
    it. Every qualitypredictor is that sales and migration are now projected
    way down. News is out that MVPs and Major book authors have torn apart the
    arrogant roadmap drop the byzantine and convoluted branches of RC1 around
    Sept. 7 or so, and then a little more than a month later to slap lipstick on
    a systemically very sick pig and call it Vista.

    The slide projecting 400 million Vista desktops in 24 months MSFT was
    privately circulating has pretty much fallen on the wishful thinking scrap

    Corporations Look Before They Leap to Vista [You can bet your round
    little start button in megathousands of numbers they will when they realize
    how sick it is]:,1895,1941463,00.asp

    "Large businesses will get the first crack at upgrading to Microsoft's
    new Windows Vista operating system. But chances are that they'll still be
    the last to widely adopt it."

    Vista is Constantly Having to Say We're Sorry and Lame/MSFT Reparations
    MSFT gets into the semantics game:

    Opinion: When is a reparation not a reparation? Apparently, when it's a
    "customer incentive" program.,1895,2000814,00.asp,1895,2003474,00.asp

    Instead, Microsoft has chosen to trot out Sunny Jensen Charlebois, the
    product manager for its worldwide licensing and pricing group, to anyone who
    will listen, so she can deny that any such thing is planned, and to
    reinforce the message they want heard, which is that Microsoft always offers
    programs to drive adoption when it rolls out a new Windows operating system.

    Here are more details on exactly what Microsoft told us—based on a
    transcript of an interview with Allison Watson, the corporate vice president
    of Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Group, which I recorded at the annual
    Microsoft worldwide partner conference in Boston in July.

    When asked how Microsoft planned to address the fact that the delay in
    releasing products like Vista and Office would significantly impact partners
    and their customers who have volume licensing agreements and Software
    Assurance, Watson said: "We have already identified all of the customers who
    fall into these buckets and associated partners.

    "And, starting two months ago, the worldwide field was empowered with offers
    and incentives and a commitment to partner and customer satisfaction around
    these issues," she said.

    Watson did, however, also try to downplay the effect of product delays on
    enterprise customers with volume licensing agreements, and the partners who
    work with them, saying that for them it is less about when a piece of
    software ships and more about how the software is delivered and supported
    and affects the entire product family and their platform."

    Gartner Blog : MSFT in Stonewall Mode and the Shoes Will Drop on it Hard

    August, 2006 04:38 PM EST
    Microsoft Says "No" to Reparations for SA Customers Due to Vista, Office
    Posted By: Michael Silver, Research VP
    "Microsoft has sold its Software Assurance (SA) program largely based on a
    “Trust Me” platform. The company doesn't guarantee that a new version of a
    product will be delivered during the term of the customer’s SA contract.
    Although Microsoft has tried to add value to SA since it was first announced
    in 2001 (when the only benefits were new product versions and spread
    payments), for most organizations, unless they get new software releases, a
    three-year SA agreement does not make financial sense. They have had to
    trust that Microsoft would ship a new release during their contracts or
    would add sufficient value to make it not matter. For many customers that
    renewed Office SA in September, October, and probably November 2003,
    Microsoft has done neither. These customers got Office 2003 as part of their
    prior SA and will not get Office 2007 unless they renew. Most Windows client
    SA holders have not gotten a new release during their last renewal, either,
    due to Windows Vista’s delays, but it’s the Office 2007 slip that’s bringing
    this issue to a head.

    I spoke with a client in this predicament recently. This client has tens of
    thousands of users and paid Microsoft millions of dollars for Office SA
    during the past three years. Understandably, this client is not happy. Thus
    far, Microsoft is stonewalling the customer's request to "make good" before
    discussing renewal. Press reports on 8 August indicated that Microsoft was
    finally relenting, but Microsoft insists that this is not the case. As
    previously, company says it is discussing the situation on a one-to-one
    basis, but thus far, our reports indicate that Microsoft will not discuss
    the issue unless it is in the context of a new renewal. Understandably,
    companies want satisfaction before they even think about renewing. Does this
    fall into the realm of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on

    They are in big sales trouble and they know it. They will be making
    concessions out the wazoo, and they will increase exponentially when a
    significant number of people who know how to drill Vista at the surface and
    open the hood start analytically cataloging failed features.

    Right now, this moment, in 5506 and the daily builds beyond, they cannot
    get Win RE their major recovery tool to work reliable a signifcant percent
    of the time, nor can they make another old standby as a repair tool since
    Win 98 SFC (Windows File Protection) work in their daily Vista builds.
    Help is very incomplete; and extremly signficant is the fact that every
    build is having a slow explorer shell response and the explorer shell is
    unstable and breaks causing not only multiple Windows Explorer Problems but
    also internet connectivity problems necessitating frequent workarounds to
    run IE as elevated at first and then used tabbed browsing to continue
    opening windows.

    Marketing is lamely turning to a very flawed deployment, UAC which is gong
    to cause huge consternation and huge help desk time wastes and huge home and
    small business confusion, and such pre-teen targets as Side Bar gadgets
    which have been around since the 1980's free by 3rd party with exponentially
    more sophisticated functionality and such superficial features that add
    little to the OS's working like Aero Glass. They sure have gotten more than
    their bang out of Aero Glass. They are also redduced to marketing something
    as lame as putting Windows Live links into Vista, for those not able to
    learn and type which is a very sophistcated and complex url to
    commit to memory.

    These superficial features, hardly needed, are a great diversion from the
    train wreck Vista has evolved to.


    Congratulations USA "Numbers of Civilian Deaths Highest ever in July in
    Iraq" You have the highest quality killing machine Bush and his morons can

    Number of Civilian Deaths Highest in July, Iraqis Say
    New York Times
    August 16, 2006
    BAGHDAD, Iraq, Aug. 15 — July appears to have been the deadliest month of
    the war for Iraqi civilians, according to figures from the Health Ministry
    and the Baghdad morgue, reinforcing criticism that the Baghdad security plan
    started in June by the new government has failed.

    An average of more than 110 Iraqis were killed each day in July, according
    to the figures. The total number of civilian deaths that month, 3,438, is a
    9 percent increase over the tally in June and nearly double the toll in

    The rising numbers suggested that sectarian violence is spiraling out of
    control, and seemed to bolster an assertion many senior Iraqi officials and
    American military analysts have made in recent months: that the country is
    already embroiled in a civil war, not just slipping toward one, and that the
    American-led forces are caught between Sunni Arab guerrillas and Shiite

    The numbers also provide the most definitive evidence yet that the Baghdad
    security plan started by Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki on June 14 has
    not quelled the violence. The plan, promoted by top Iraqi and American
    officials at the time, relied on setting up more Iraqi-run checkpoints to
    stymie insurgents.

    The officials have since acknowledged that the plan has fallen far short of
    its aims, forcing the American military to add thousands of soldiers to the
    capital this month and to back away from proposals for a withdrawal of some
    troops by year’s end.

    The Baghdad morgue reported receiving 1,855 bodies in July, more than half
    of the total deaths recorded in the country. The morgue tally for July was
    an 18 percent increase over June.

    The American ambassador said in an interview last week that Iraq’s political
    leaders had failed to use their influence fully to rein in the soaring
    violence, and that people associated with the government were stoking the
    flames of sectarian hatred.

    “I think the time has come for these leaders to take responsibility with
    regard to sectarian violence, to the security of Baghdad at the present
    time,” said the ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad

    The American military in recent weeks has been especially eager to prove
    that Baghdad can be tamed if American troops are added to the streets and
    take a more active role — in effect, a repudiation of earlier efforts to
    turn over security more quickly to Iraqis.

    The American command has added nearly 4,000 American soldiers to Baghdad by
    extending the tour of a combat brigade. Under a new security plan aimed at
    overhauling Mr. Maliki’s efforts, some of the city’s most violent southern
    and western areas are now virtually occupied block-to-block by American and
    Iraqi forces, with entire neighborhoods transformed into miniature police
    states after being sealed off by blast walls and concertina wire.

    When the tally for civilian deaths in July is added to the Iraqi government
    numbers for earlier months obtained by the United Nations, the total
    indicates that at least 17,776 Iraqi civilians died violently in the first
    seven months of this year, or an average of 2,539 per month.

    The Health Ministry did not provide figures for people wounded by attacks in
    Baghdad but said that at least 3,597 Iraqis were hurt outside the city in
    July, a 25 percent increase over June.

    United Nations officials and military analysts say the morgue and ministry
    numbers almost certainly reflect severe undercounting, caused by the
    haphazard nature of information in a war zone.

    Many casualties in areas outside Baghdad probably never appear in the
    official count, said Anthony H. Cordesman, a military analyst at the Center
    for Strategic and International Studies, a research group in Washington.
    That helps explain why fatalities in Baghdad appear to account for such a
    large percentage of the total number, he said in a recent report.

    The United Nations has been tracking civilian casualty figures by collating
    numbers from the Health Ministry and Baghdad morgue. Last month, it
    announced that the Iraqi government’s numbers indicated that 3,149 violent
    deaths had occurred in June, or an average of more than 100 per day.

    The statistics were significantly higher than previous civilian death tolls,
    and indicated that the news media had drastically underreported the level of
    violence in Iraq. The United States government and military have declined to
    release overall figures on Iraqi civilian casualties, or even say whether
    they are keeping count.

    But Iraqi and American officials agree that civilian deaths had been much
    lower before wide-scale sectarian violence erupted after the Feb. 22 bombing
    of a Shiite shrine in Samarra, and has only gotten worse.

    In recent weeks, Ambassador Khalilzad and top generals have warned that the
    country could slide toward full-blown civil war, especially if the capital
    continued fragmenting into ethnic or sectarian enclaves controlled by
    militias, as has been happening for months.

    Much of the responsibility rests on Iraqi politicians, many of whom have
    ties to militias, Mr. Khalilzad said. “I believe that there have been forces
    associated with people in the government from both the Shia and Sunni sides
    that have participated in this,” he said of the violence.

    Iraqi politicians are furiously lashing out at one another. On Monday, the
    speaker of Parliament, a conservative Sunni Arab, said he was considering
    stepping down because of animosity from the Kurdish and Shiite political

    The move to oust the speaker, Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, appears to have thrown
    the Sunni Arab bloc he belongs to, the Iraqi Consensus Front, into disarray.
    On Tuesday, a senior member of the bloc, Khalaf al-Elayan, said the bloc
    rejected any call for Mr. Mashhadani’s resignation. Another Sunni leader,
    Adnan al-Dulaimi, said in an interview that Mr. Mashhadani should step down.
    Mr. Dulaimi is considered a possible replacement.

    In Karbala, Shiite gunmen and Iraqi military forces exchanged gunfire for
    several hours near one of Iraq’s holiest Shiite shrines. Witnesses said the
    fighting forced the Iraqi Army to block entrances to the city and impose a
    curfew, prohibiting all cars and warning residents not to carry guns.

    In Mosul, a suicide bomber detonated a truck packed with explosives, killing
    at least 5 civilians and wounding nearly 50 near the offices of the
    Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, the party of President Jalal Talabani.

    One of the deadliest attacks in recent weeks took place in southern Baghdad
    on Sunday night, when bombs, mortars and rockets killed at least 57 people
    in a Shiite neighborhood, according to Iraqi officials. The American
    military said Tuesday that the death toll had grown to at least 63 and that
    the cause had been identified: two car bombs that ignited a gas line.

    A day earlier, the American military had said the deaths were due solely to
    a gas-main explosion and not to any attack. A spokesman now says that
    conclusion was based on “incomplete information.”

    The well-organized attack came despite the fact that American and Iraqi
    troops have flooded areas of southern Baghdad.

    Sahar Nageeb and Qais Mizher contributed reporting for this article.
    Chad Harris, Aug 17, 2006

    deebs Guest

    Ah well, it looks like full version retail still?

    I must admit I encountered difficulties with OEM variant OSs.

    XP Pro retail gave me a whole new and stable machine.
    deebs, Aug 17, 2006

    Chad Harris Guest

    My experience has been OK with the OEM OS's when they're genuine and
    espeically when they're the MSFT OEM versions.. I see them at computer
    shows sold by software companies all the time at reduced prices--I'd call
    crudely surplus that has been collected.

    It's been with OEM recovery discs and partitions that are simply code short
    that don't do repair installs the way I can get done almost every time if a
    Linux bootloader isn't blocking setup (nothing against Linux multiboots at
    all--it just can get in the way of a Windows XP repair install or partitions
    aren't severely damaged (and both these are relatively uncommon).

    Chad Harris, Aug 18, 2006

    Lang Murphy Guest

    I work on a project which has 400K + clients (yeah, not a typo). They, the
    customer, are already screaming for Vista. Not for Aero. For security.
    That's a tenth of the projected Vista desktops. And, yeah, all 400K won't
    get Vista at one time, but it's a target, a projection, if you will. Most
    home users will want Vista for the flashy stuff, Aero in all its glory.
    Nothing wrong with that...

    <Sidebar ON>

    I'm downloading SUSE 10.1. I've been downloading it now for about 20 hours.
    About 100MB's to go and it'll be another 45 minutes. Or so the D/L
    progression dlg box tells me. What's that have to do with Vista? Not much,
    but, from an end user POV, geez, I D/L'd Vista in a couple of hours. SUSE
    distro point must be low bandwidth or not able to handle the traffic.
    WhatEVER! Most folks would've given up by now. And, yes, others may be
    seeing faster D/L times... but this is my experience and it ain't great. And
    we'll see what kind of "Out of Box" experience I have when I install SUSE
    Linux. Somehow, I think the Vista BETA will hold up pretty good to the SUSE
    production code.

    <Sidebar OFF>


    Lang Murphy, Aug 18, 2006

    Chad Harris Guest

    There are a number of home users and business users who don't give a damn,
    Lang, about Aero or the juvenile sidebar or any of the superficial Mickey
    Mouse things that the Vista synchophants in and out of MSFT keep jumping up
    and down with like cheerleaders on IV meth, and are more concerned why Dan
    Stevenson, Lead Program Manager from the Vista Lead Storage PM can't get
    System File Checker working and in conjunction with Desmond Lee, Program
    Manager for the Win RE team, can't get Win RE's startup repair to work a
    large percentage of the time when XP's Repair Install works.

    If home users or any users want flash, they should dig into some games.

    When this lipsticked pig gets out of the Redmond barnyard, this pent up
    demand will plumet.

    When people find out the Explorer Shell is less than stable, they won't be
    jumping up and down about Aero or the pathetically deployment of UAC. UAC
    will be turned off by people in droves because of its unweildy deployment
    that simply interrupts production. Many of these 400K+clients have had
    ample tools to confer security on their systems, and if it's not getting
    done I'd blame whomever they pay to run their IT.

    When Blaster hit, it shut down the United States' 2nd largest rail system
    for 24 hours. I wouldn't have been jumping up and down to give those CTOs
    and Sys Ads Christmas bonuses.


    Chad Harris, Aug 18, 2006

    Lang Murphy Guest


    OK, first off, I meant sidebar as in a news sidebar, not a Vista sidebar...
    ;-) Wrong phrase, I guess.

    Don't think most home or small business users would know either Dan
    Stevenson or Desmond Lee from a hole in the ground. I sure don't.

    And while, sure, who could argue that everyone wants their OS to be stable
    and work as expected, I guess only the gold code will prove that out as we
    are all still working with beta code, just FYI (Mwa-ha-ha! Sorry, couldn't
    resist. Go ahead and flame me... I deserve it, I admit. Probably deserve
    worse than that... like being shot with a sh*t gun. I will NEVER pull that
    stunt again, I promise).

    I don't work security on the project I'm on. I know we pump out IAVA's as
    fast as MS publishes them and since the customer is a target for hackers
    worldwide and I haven't heard of any breaches, I'll have to assume our
    security guys are doing their jobs right (and, yeah, I know it's the one's
    you -don't- hear about that do the most damage...). Point is, if the
    customer starts hollering for something, you have to respond. For good or

    Got SuSE 10.1 installed on a GX150 today. Not a great box; 256MB's RAM
    (recommended minimum) and a 40GB hard drive. Not overly impressed. Not with
    the setup code, not with the desktop. The setup code prompts to D/L updates
    and then gives no feedback on what the hell it's doing. None. Changing the
    resolution on the desktop was an exercise in frustration. Only took about 30
    minutes to get it right. Forget that. And I think most home users would.
    It's a tad sluggish too, but that's not a slam; I wouldn't expect any modern
    OS to fly in that space (256MB's RAM).

    So, yeah, you might get as good performance with less resources, but, gee, I
    ain't interested. Too much work. I might've dicked around with it when I was
    younger, but this distro of Linux ain't a good fit for Joe User. IMHO. And
    this is supposed to be one of the more user friendly distros. Understand,
    I'm not knocking Linux or this distro; if you want to use it; go ahead, have
    a blast. But don't tell me, as Novell does, that anyone can use it easily. I
    don't buy that for a second. Everyone's got their marketing spin when it
    comes to OS's. Microsoft ain't the only OS vendor to paint their OS with
    gold foil and try and sell it to the masses as solid gold. Nope.


    Lang Murphy, Aug 19, 2006

    MICHAEL Guest

    SUSE 10.1 is the best Linux flavor I have tried-
    by far.

    Just downloaded it last week, seemed rather speedy
    to me. Maybe 4 or 5 hours, I don't really remember.
    Not as fast other large downloads I've done, but not too

    I'd be interested in your thoughts about SUSE 10.1.


    MICHAEL, Aug 19, 2006
  11. If I may contribute a thought, SuSE uses the YaST 2 installer. I think that
    is easily the most sophisticated installer of all the Linux distros. A lot
    better than the Anaconda installer used by the RH/Fedora line. YaST is
    especially adept in hardware detection.

    Colin Barnhorst, Aug 19, 2006

    Todd Guest

    In addition to your 400,000, the U.S. Government, probably most other
    governments and most corporations big enough to have Enterprise licenses are
    also screaming for improved security. Some of them won't go to Vista
    immediately, they have been burned by new Microsoft Operating Systems
    before, but even if it has problems, they will go to it as soon as they
    think they can live with it.
    Todd, Aug 19, 2006

    Chad Harris Guest

    I would have no reason to flame you or anyone. I enjoy your posts and your
    experience and ability to context with it, and I understood the sidebar
    context of the snippet Lang. It just happened I was singling out the
    sideabar and Aero glass as cosmetic fixtures was all. I enjoy hearing the
    Linux experiences as well. A lot interesting is happening there and I know
    some Linux Server admins for large companies who are of course great Windows
    users and the area of fixing Windows with Linux and recovering passwords is
    also an area I like reading in.

    BTW if you are trying different Linux distros, Live CDs, etc. Tech TV (I
    don't know if you know the old show) has archived much of their old site and
    you can look up some good Linux resources and sites there). Also check out or now for Linux info and other
    good info.


    Chad Harris, Aug 19, 2006

    Chad Harris Guest

    LOL Todd--

    I"m glad the US gov is "screaming" for security because the performance
    I've seen from Mike Chertoff and the incompetents at Homland Security has
    been nothing but horrendous.

    Not too long ago as Mark Minasi has pointed out, they were putting their
    backups stacked on top of their boxes and servers instead of off site.

    One of their major consultants--you guessed it MSFT.

    I just listened to the presentation of the critique of Norad and the FAA and
    the Bush administration by the attorneys for the 911 Comission including the
    non-stop lying and fighting to cover up tapes by the Pentagon. Not pretty.

    The same chaos would occur again, including panic in the West Wing.

    Homeland Security has done a nice job of stealing with credit cards,
    including expensive meals, IPODS, laptops, guns as has the FBI. The agenda
    still is politics and pork barrell and if I were a terrorist I would be
    ecstatic this crew Chertoff, Rumsfield, Cheney, Rice, Hadley at NSA, Mike
    Hayden, CIA are in place. I would love the way they are terrorizing their
    own people with a never ending cascade of wiretapping, data mining, and
    ineffective rights violations and making my life easier.

    I would particularly love the moronic way that their attorney general is
    claiming a reason wire tapping is constitutional that he alleges he cannot

    "Just trust us" is the last thing I'd do with these clowns who couldn't
    secure their way out of a wet paper bag.

    Chad Harris, Aug 19, 2006

    Lang Murphy Guest


    Seems like I try some flavor of Linux every two years or so... Last one was
    Red Hat 8.0, I think. If YaST is the best Linux has to offer for an OS
    setup, gee, Vista's setup is far better. No comparison. YaST offers to run
    updates during the install and then goes off into the darkness and doesn't
    offer up any information on what it's doing while it goes off and, I assume,
    catalogs which updates are available and applicable. I thought it might've
    locked up... but no, 10 or 15 minutes later it came back with a list of
    updates. Then, when all updates were selected, it threw a dialog about not
    updating the kernel because that might hose device discovery. The dialog
    thrown was not intuitive in terms of what choice should be made, I mean, if
    it's going to hose device discovery, why even offer it as an update during

    When I first got into computers, mid/late-80's, I spent a lot of time
    messing around with them to teach myself about them. Learned in DOS and
    moved to Windows 2.1. Taught myself dBase III +, which has served me well
    throughout my IT career; not dBase, but the programming experience which I
    leveraged when moving to WinBatch. So, yeah, I still "mess" with computers
    on the job, but at home, for home type needs, I , and I'm tempted to throw
    the caps lock key on here, but
    won't... -don't- -want- -to- -mess- -with- -my- -home- -PC's-. No desire
    whatsoever. Linux, to me, equals a whole lot of messin' going on, to quote
    Little Richard.

    And, so, having dipped my toes into the SuSE 10.1 pool, I shall retract them
    and return, quite happily, to my Vista Beta code and keep my fingers crossed
    that MS doesn't screw the pooch when they release the gold code. Nuff said.


    Lang Murphy, Aug 20, 2006

    Lang Murphy Guest


    Well, I would not have blamed you, or anyone, for flaming me for using "the
    phrase that's grossly overused by him that goes unnamed."

    I only dipped my toes in the SuSE 10.1 pool because I read a positive review
    of it. Not impressed. Not with the setup code. Not with the display settings
    code. Not with the fact that neither FireFox or Konquerer (sp?) display TV
    Times on I know Linux is a powerful OS; I am not disputing that at
    all. As an end-user OS, though, it is still far, far, behind any flavor of
    Windows since W2K, IMHO. So... my time will be better spent learning the
    differences between WinPE 1.5 and 2.0 right now. Sometime in 2008, if I
    follow my past schedule for doing so, I will dip my toes in the Linux pool
    once again.

    And thanks for the links...


    Lang Murphy, Aug 21, 2006
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.