Middle Finger Salute

Discussion in 'Windows Update' started by Middle Finger, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. This is a middle finger salute for the folks at Microsoft. I walked away
    from my computer for about 30 minutes. When I came back, the computer had
    rebooted because of an automatic update. I lost about two hours of work.
     
    Middle Finger, Nov 11, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Middle Finger

    M Guest

    And you don't even realize that it's your fault for setting Auto Updates
    to download and install without your input. You got what you deserved
    and maybe now you'll take a look at what your settings are for Auto
    Update and change them accordingly.

    M
     
    M, Nov 11, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Yep - sucks when you don't save.

    Suggest you also look into backups (nothing to do with this problem, but it
    might prevent other issues in the future for you.)
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 11, 2009
    #3
  4. Middle Finger

    Michael Guest

    Maybe you should take your middle finger and shove it up your ass. YOU
    control the update process. Educate yourself with that finger after you
    remove it from your ass.
     
    Michael, Nov 11, 2009
    #4
  5. Wow. What a stupid, unthinking reply!


     
    David Dickinson, Nov 11, 2009
    #5
  6. Perhaps a little thought before replying would have helped you understand
    how dumb your reply it. A proper automatic update procedure would have
    stopped the automatic restart if work had not been saved. It's not like
    that's a difficult condition to detect.

    David Dickinson
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 11, 2009
    #6
  7. In addition - turn off "automatic updates" - or at least change the settings
    so *you* have control of when updates are either downloaded or installed or
    both.

    Also - how did you conclude it was an automatic update that caused the
    reboot? Popup? Event log? Update History?

    In any case there are two real hard-core rules to computer usage.

    1) Save often.
    2) Backup important data.

    The situation you are in would have been end-result-equal had there been a
    power outage (of any sort) or hard disk drive failure or some other
    component failure in the machine. Heck - someone else walking up and
    closing the application you were using and clicking "no" to "save work"
    would be equivalent.

    Your saving your work often and/or at least right before you grant full
    control of the computer to the universe when walking away is just common
    sense/wise. ;-)
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 11, 2009
    #7
  8. That's good advice. The SAVE function can be a real life SAVEr (my
    apologies). I tell my users that anything they leave on the screen
    overnight that isn't saved is going to get lost, but they sometimes need to
    experience the consequences of not saving more than once.

    David Dickinson
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 11, 2009
    #8
  9. A little effort on the one component in this equation with sentient
    abilities isn't above a certain level of expectation.

    - Worked on it for two hours.
    - Walked away from the computer for 30 minutes.
    - Could have - at any time - clicked "save" or had configured whatever
    application being used to automatically save on occasion.

    Yes - there might be an exception: it was crunching data, processing it for
    two hours. And whatever process it was doing could not be paused and its
    current status saved. Seen it. This doesn't sound like that - but could
    be. And unless the OP is just bored (or you are the OP) I doubt they will
    ever return here to tell the tale.

    What was the wise choice there? It's essentially common knowledge that if
    left to its default settings - Windows *will* install updates and reboot as
    needed, when needed.

    Could the process be improved (like *try* to do checks for unsaved work in
    the thousand of possible applications no one may ever know anything about
    and/or for processes that are running above a certain percentage of the CPU
    or something) - sure - but it has not.

    However, one has been given the ability to configure their own settings.
    One can determine how/if Windows will retrieve/install updates for them. If
    someone will be doing something where they don't want to lose work (for
    whatever reason) - then they should definitely make sure such things are
    done. It doesn't (by any stretch of the imagination) cover every situation
    that might come up and lose the work if not properly saved - but it is one
    less thing to worry about.

    Automatic Updates are *not* new - nor are the reboot 'issues' people have.
    Live and learn.

    In any case there are two real hard-core rules to computer usage.

    1) Save often.
    2) Backup important data.

    The situation the OP is in would have been end-result-equal had
    there been a power outage (of any sort) or hard disk drive failure
    or some other component failure in the machine. Heck - someone
    else walking up and closing the application they were using and
    clicking "no" to "save work" would be equivalent.

    Saving your work often and/or at least right before you grant full
    control of the computer to the universe when walking away is just common
    sense/wise. ;-)

    In the end - the sentient being could have accounted for the flaws in the
    equipment they were using more easily/aptly/quicky than the equipment they
    are using can account for the flaws in the sentient being.
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 11, 2009
    #9
  10. A little effort on the one component in this equation with sentient
    abilities isn't above a certain level of expectation.

    - Worked on it for two hours.
    - Walked away from the computer for 30 minutes.
    - Could have - at any time - clicked "save" or had configured whatever
    application being used to automatically save on occasion.

    Yes - there might be an exception: it was crunching data, processing it for
    two hours. And whatever process it was doing could not be paused and its
    current status saved. Seen it. This doesn't sound like that - but could
    be. And unless the OP is just bored (or you are the OP) I doubt they will
    ever return here to tell the tale.

    What was the wise choice there? It's essentially common knowledge that if
    left to its default settings - Windows *will* install updates and reboot as
    needed, when needed.

    Could the process be improved (like *try* to do checks for unsaved work in
    the thousand of possible applications no one may ever know anything about
    and/or for processes that are running above a certain percentage of the CPU
    or something) - sure - but it has not.

    However, one has been given the ability to configure their own settings.
    One can determine how/if Windows will retrieve/install updates for them. If
    someone will be doing something where they don't want to lose work (for
    whatever reason) - then they should definitely make sure such things are
    done. It doesn't (by any stretch of the imagination) cover every situation
    that might come up and lose the work if not properly saved - but it is one
    less thing to worry about.

    Automatic Updates are *not* new - nor are the reboot 'issues' people have.
    Live and learn.

    In any case there are two real hard-core rules to computer usage.

    1) Save often.
    2) Backup important data.

    The situation the OP is in would have been end-result-equal had
    there been a power outage (of any sort) or hard disk drive failure
    or some other component failure in the machine. Heck - someone
    else walking up and closing the application they were using and
    clicking "no" to "save work" would be equivalent.

    Saving your work often and/or at least right before you grant full
    control of the computer to the universe when walking away is just common
    sense/wise. ;-)

    In the end - the sentient being could have accounted for the flaws in the
    equipment they were using more easily/aptly/quicky than the equipment they
    are using can account for the flaws in the sentient being.
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 11, 2009
    #10
  11. Middle Finger

    M Guest

    No such thing in Windows.
    Care for some cheese with your whine?

    M
     
    M, Nov 11, 2009
    #11
  12. Shenan Stanley said:
    "Yes - there might be an exception: it was crunching data, processing it for
    two hours."

    Thus, my replies. Besides, the automatic restart "feature" assumes that all
    Windows users are experts and understand that they should configure their
    updates manually. That is a ridiculous assumption to make for a
    consumer-oriented product to make. Note that Microsoft encourages people to
    enable fully automatic updates. That's inviting problems like this.
    Perhaps the user should have saved his work, perhaps it wasn't possible.
    Nevertheless, the OS probably could have prevented the problem.

    David
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 11, 2009
    #12
  13. <SNIPPED>
    http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/browse_frm/thread/753a814d91d89d82/
    <above is link to entire conversation>



    Perhaps the user should have saved? I'd say, "No doubt", if the option was
    available.

    In the end - the result COULD have been the same in the ways I listed and in
    other ways.

    By default Microsoft could have set automatic updates to only check and let
    you know some are available. The end-user could have changed it to fully
    automatic because they did not want to be bothered in the middle of doing
    something they deemed important with the message (I've seen users get
    frustrated like that.) No save = loss.

    The power could have gone out to the person's home/business - no save =
    loss.

    Let's say they have a UPS (battery backup) - maybe its software cannot
    identify the application to know it needs to save something or the software
    was never installed by the user and/or the power outage was too long for the
    UPS to keep the system up throughout - no save = loss.

    Let's say there is someone else involved who wants to use the computer.
    They sit down and see that the last person did not close everything and so
    they close it. It may/may not ask to save, and if it does the person
    may/may not say "yes" - after all - not their stuff. Or maybe the screen
    was locked and they couldn't unlock it so they held the power button down
    until it turned off/back on. No save = loss.

    Let's make the other person/entity less 'involved' in a direct manner.
    Let's say they stumble in and trip on the power cord, they are looking for
    something they dropped and knock something loose, etc. No save = loss.

    It's almost always the end-user's responsibility to learn how to properly
    utilize *any* tool they get based around the manner they will be using it.

    If you will be using something to crunch data for hours at a time and you
    don't plan on sitting there staring at the screen to make sure the computer
    does it right - you would be wise to take a few precautions... Large
    Battery Back-UPS, Turning off Automatic Updates of *all* kinds, might even
    want to disconnect from the Internet completely while crunching said data.
    You might even have a system just for this that doesn't have AV software
    than might slow the process down.

    If you will be typing up some long document (or even many short ones) - save
    often. That one is so simple - there's not much in ways of alternatives.
    And especially if you plan on leaving the room where you are doing all this
    work - save right before you leave - and I might even go so far as to say
    you might copy the saved document to external media before you left as an
    extra precaution.

    The thing here is - no matter what - the person giving the middle finger to
    Microsoft could have lost their data. They are blaming Microsoft because it
    is convenient and the actual thing that happened (that could have been
    prevented.) Yep - the automatic reboot of Windows Update strikes again -
    but it doesn't take much of an Internet search to see the same thing
    happening since about 2001 over and over, making it *not* an inkown without
    solution. If a person uses their computer much - they have likely seen the
    popups before.

    Posting that here - in a peer-to-peer newsgroup - served no purpose except
    them blowing off steam. They weren't *looking* for an answer. I figure
    they have since either realized the other half-dozen things they could
    have/should have done to prevent this and may be implementing some of those
    things now.

    Cars can have sensors in them detecting when an object is too close and take
    action - have been able to do that for years (and a few have this
    implemented) - but not many do - because there is some expectation on the
    sentient being's abilities to operate the equipment and the consequences of
    taking the action is not something you might want the system deciding for
    you. (Some joker throws a ball on the highway in front of your car, the
    sensor detects it and slams on your brakes, the kid on the motorcycle behind
    you has no time to react...)

    Truthfully - no one here should have cared either way about this post. The
    post had no question and warranted no response since this is a peer-to-peer
    newsgroup and the odds someone who represents Microsoft is here/is answering
    are fairly low (closer to nil.)

    Given just the original message as a whole - I would assume the OP was
    working on something they could have saved. One mouse click vs. two hours
    of work lost - no matter in what way - the mistake is with the end-user.
    Now - even if it was calculating something, crunching data - I'd say someone
    who would be doing that should look into the ways they could have their
    'crunching' interrupted and discover the viable solutions/prevention methods
    against such catastrophe - as they may be doing now.

    In the end - you walk into a room with a bad attitude and throw up your
    middle finger and scream, "Up Yours Microsoft", it is unlikely the
    conversations you will get into immediately following in that room will be,
    "So how's your family? Haven't seen you around the bowling alley lately."
    ;-)
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 11, 2009
    #13
  14. *You* chose the "automatic" setting for Automatic Updates so you have only
    yourself to blame!
     
    PA Bear [MS MVP], Nov 11, 2009
    #14
  15. Nope, WYSIWYG. A properly configured AU would have avoided the problem
    altogether.
     
    PA Bear [MS MVP], Nov 11, 2009
    #15
  16. Middle Finger

    M Guest

    You are assuming -- incorrectly -- that Microsoft cares about it's
    paying customers: they don't. This is normal behavior for a company that
    has a de facto monopoly.

    M
     
    M, Nov 11, 2009
    #16
  17. Are you assuming that everyone knows how to configure automatic updates?
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 11, 2009
    #17
  18. He chose it because Microsoft told him it was the best thing to do, not
    because he understood the potential problems -- as he should not be expected
    to do. He is, after all, a user, not a qualified administrator or OS
    designer. Microsoft's product should help users avoid these kinds of
    problems. Instead, their recommendation causes them.

    Blaming the user will not solve the problem, because more people than this
    one are affected by it. Expecting everyone to be an expert is unfair,
    short-sighted, and ignorant.
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 11, 2009
    #18
  19. .... Or assuming that anyone who can find and post to these newsgroups via
    the web page interface (as the OP did) might be able to utilize an Internet
    search engine and type in a valid search that might show them how to do so?

    Now is a great time to point you to one of the easiest ways to find
    information on problems you may be having and solutions others have found:

    Search using Google!
    http://www.google.com/
    (How-to: http://www.google.com/intl/en/help/basics.html )

    Around this 'subject' some keywords might be...
    windows "automatic update" configure

    Using that *as typed* even gives you this:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+"automatic+update"+configure

    The first hit I get there is:
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306525

    Well - that might be presumptious - the OP, in their temper tantrum, did not
    specify their operating system. So let's cover one of the other operating
    systems by changing the search keywords...

    New keywords...
    windows vista "automatic update" configure

    Using that *as typed* even gives you this:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+vista+"automatic+update"+configure

    The third hit I get there is:
    http://www.microsoft.com/security/updates/mu.aspx

    Which gets you to here (for Windows Vista):
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/windowsupdate/learn/windowsvista.mspx

    Well - you get the 'how to fish' idea... so let's just give you the
    answers...

    Courtesy of PA Bear MS MVP in another conversation *yesterday*...
    Update your computer automatically
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/windowsupdate/automaticupdate.mspx

    Automatic Updates in Win7
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Updating-your-computer
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Updates-frequently-asked-questions
    !! =>
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Change-how-Windows-installs-or-notifies-you-about-update

    Automatic Updates in Vista
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/windowsupdate/learn/windowsvista.mspx
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/windowsupdate.mspx

    => Excellent Vista tutorial:
    http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial140.html

    How to configure and use Automatic Updates in WinXP:
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306525

    How to configure and use Automatic Updates in Win2K:
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/327850

    How to schedule automatic updates in WinXP, Win2K and Win2K03
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/327838

    That should cover it. ;-)

    The whole point is still, "If one is unwilling to put in effort to ensure
    their settings/way of doing things is the best/best for them - then they
    have essentially decided to live with the consequences. If they didn't know
    there were other options (assuming they did put forth effort to look - or
    even if they didn't and just believe ignorance is a valid excuse) then the
    first time it happens should be a learning experience and they should then
    learn to keep it from happening in the future."

    And since you said something similar - I assume you'd agree. ;-)
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 11, 2009
    #19
  20. Apparently, he did do a search, found his way here, and posted an
    appropriate criticism. The fact that he's getting a lot of useless crap in
    return simply indicates that the responders, who should be qualified in
    these matters, aren't thinking things through.
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 11, 2009
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.