Middle Finger Salute

Discussion in 'Windows Update' started by Middle Finger, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. TaurArian said:
    "Adjusting the AU settings is no more difficult than adjusting the seat in
    your motor vehicle to suit you needs."

    Again with the assumptions. /TO YOU/ it's no more difficult than that.
    Aside from the fact that you're comparing apples and oranges (didn't they
    require some kind of study of logic when you were in school?) with this
    ridiculous comparison to cars, you're also comparing your knowledge with
    that of average users who, I guarantee you, not only outnumber us a
    million-fold, but who also would look at you with a blank stare if you used
    the words "configure automatic updates". They would wonder why they were
    wasting their time with you, a criticism you would richly deserve.

    Think, man! Think! You're the 'leet. Stop expecting users to know what
    you know. They shouldn't /have/ to know what you know! It's not their job
    to know how to configure a computer. That's why we call them "users"
    instead of "administrators".
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 12, 2009
    #41
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  2. Middle Finger

    M Guest

    I know.
    No shit.
    Really? Fascinating. Apple would have to lower their prices considerably
    to make your observation come true.
    Do you know to whom you are replying? Hint: it ain't the OP.
    They care about the money, I agree. Whether they care if you lose data
    due to auto reboots, I beg to disagree.

    M
     
    M, Nov 12, 2009
    #42
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  3. Middle Finger

    Alias Guest

    "Friends don't let friends drive Windows". If you really felt a
    responsibility to your clients, you would teach them how to use Linux
    that never reboots unless you tell it to and updates rarely have a
    reboot and, even then, you reboot at *your* pleasure, not the operating
    system's.

    Alias
     
    Alias, Nov 12, 2009
    #43
  4. Middle Finger

    Alias Guest

    Quite true along with the false pop up notice that one can continue
    working while updates are being installed. But what do you expect from
    Microsoft? They only care about their bottom line. I mean, after all,
    they did sell Vista, possibly the worst OS ever.

    Alias
     
    Alias, Nov 12, 2009
    #44
  5. No, that's BAD advice!
    DONT TURN OFF automatic updates, just set this registry entry

    [HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Auto Update]
    "NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers"=dword:01

    and optionally

    [HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate]
    "ElevateNonAdmins"=dword:01
    <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/328010/en-us> is not for us poor,
    not paying mortals?

    Stefan
     
    Stefan Kanthak, Nov 12, 2009
    #45
  6. NO!
    A tool should ALWAYS be setup in a way to properly support its users.

    Unfortunately the Microsoft developers live in the U.S. where many
    people just don't care to save energy and don't switch of their
    computing equipment after use. So they deliberately choose 03:00 AM
    to install the downloaded updates and reboot to enforce the timely
    installation of the updates.

    Stefan
     
    Stefan Kanthak, Nov 12, 2009
    #46
  7. <snipped>
    http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/browse_frm/thread/753a814d91d89d82/
    <above is link to entire conversation>



    <snipped>

    So you can have a tool that automatically knows the best setting for each
    individual? Especially when that tool will be handed to everyone from the
    least experience to the most experienced in it usage and all over the world,
    every corner of it?

    - Some people might need their system to run continuously to evaluate/gather
    data.
    - Some people might need their system off between certain hours of the day.
    - Some people might not care either way.

    How can you have a single setting that does that for someone?

    You can't - so you leave the settings up to the individual. The end-user,
    the one actually using the equipment, is the only one that can determine
    their needs in a specific situation during a specific time.
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 12, 2009
    #47
  8. Middle Finger

    Michael Guest

    That's real good advice! Now you'll have users, who just learned what the
    off/on button is used for, messing around in the registry. Then we'll have
    Dave Dickinson crying that Microsoft uses this thing called a registry to
    confound intelligent people and it should be outlawed and it's all part of a
    global conspiracy to take over the world.
     
    Michael, Nov 12, 2009
    #48
  9. I'm not saying turn off auto updates perse I'm saying set them to
    download and install them when YOU want them.
     
    Susan Bradley, Nov 12, 2009
    #49
  10. Yah. Right. Don't be an idiot. I have never said that configuration
    options should be removed. In fact, I think that more registry settings
    should be configurable through the Windows UI, given that sufficiently
    frightening warnings are given to keep users away from them. But are you
    trying to say that amateurs and users /shouldn't/ stay out of the registry?
    Your unintelligent response begs the question.

    Since you obviously missed my point, I'll repeat it (for the umpteenth
    time): Quit blaming the user for following Microsoft's recommendations and
    for not being an expert at configuring their operating system. If you do
    your job right as an OS designer or administrator then you don't have to
    trust the users or hope that they'll become experts.
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 12, 2009
    #50
  11. Another mouthpiece from the fringe heard from. Whoop-dee-friggin'-doo.
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 12, 2009
    #51
  12. Middle Finger

    Michael Guest

    I was about to instruct you in the meaning of the word "sarcasm", but after
    re-reading what I wrote, I changed my mind. It would be beneficial to the
    world if more computer illiterate people fooled around in the registry.
    That would tone down the noise in here considerably. Have you read some of
    the posts in the Microsoft newsgroups? I've seen tons of posts from people
    complaining "My internet don't work!!!" These people should educate
    themselves before buying a computer, or subscribe to WebTV and sell their
    computer to someone who has a clue.
    You're living in a fantasy world. The users buying today find it difficult
    to set a home thermostat. You give them too much credit. I'd like to know
    when Microsoft or any software manufacturer has become synonymous with
    pre-school teaching? Any normal, semi-intelligent person, buying their
    first computer, would also buy a copy of Windows for Idiots, so as to
    familiarize themselves with the basics. I posted a reply to you yesterday,
    but it was probably squashed do to certain terms I used. In that reply I
    asked you if it would make sense for a car dealership to sell a car to
    someone who has never driven before. Any normal person would take driving
    lessons or at least have a parent/friend/whatever take them driving so they
    can familiarize themselves with a car. I have yet to see or hear of any
    auto manufacturers offering classes to teach how to put a key in the
    ignition. I feel the same principle applies here.
     
    Michael, Nov 12, 2009
    #52
  13. Read it again!

    Stefan
     
    Stefan Kanthak, Nov 12, 2009
    #53
  14. The default setting "Install silently and reboot without prompt" can
    NEVER be an appropriate setting: a reboot without prior consent MUST
    NEVER happen during normal operation.

    Stefan
     
    Stefan Kanthak, Nov 12, 2009
    #54
  15. Therefore confirming my evaluation of you. You want everyone else to change
    in order to make you happy. (How's that working out for you, by the way?)

    Instead of complaining about users, you could try to help them because, in
    case you haven't noticed, they are not going to change. There are many more
    of them than there are of us. But that would mean you'd have to make some
    effort, doesn't it?
    Or maybe they want to buy products that are smart enough so that they don't
    have to know anything more about them that how to make them do what they
    want them to do. What is wrong with that? The time has long past when
    people could be experts in a variety of topics. There is just too much to
    know. We rely, instead, on experts in very narrow fields, and a few
    generalists who can get them to work together.

    Our job is to be the experts about computers who help non-experts to use
    them to accomplish tasks for the fields in which they are expert -- or just
    to help them entertain themselves. There is nothing wrong with users.
    There is, however, something terribly wrong with a profession, such as ours,
    when its members expect everyone else to know what they know.

    Quit blaming the users for your dissatisfaction and examine your own
    responsibility for the problem. What can you do to help? Are you of any
    benefit to others, or is it your intent simply to complain about everyone
    else?
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 12, 2009
    #55
  16. Absolutely. Yes. It adequately conveyed the user's frustration with a
    particular issue. I have no problem with it whatsoever.

    ....
    In fact, you are requiring people to know things that they shouldn't have to
    know. Why should users be required to know how to configure automatic
    updates? The first purpose of any operating system must be to prevent data
    loss. The automatic restart feature, when left to the hands of inexpert
    users (who compose 99.999% of the world) actually /causes/ data loss. This
    is not a difficult problem to understand and to design an OS to prevent.
     
    David Dickinson, Nov 12, 2009
    #56
  17. You do not want to install updates and then not reboot. This leaves the
    system in a fragile unprotected/unknown state.

    I am reading. I am stating that either you patch and reboot, or you set
    it to download and install when you want them to install.

    Please do not advocate installing updates and then not rebooting.
     
    Susan Bradley, Nov 12, 2009
    #57
  18. Middle Finger

    Michael Guest

    With the limited knowledge I have I do try to help the posters who are
    sincere. I only sound off on posters like Middle Finger Salute, who, most
    likely, create their own problems, then post here blaming everything but the
    kitchen sink, yet don't have the common sense of a housefly.
    Sorry, David. I'm raised old school. I don't get involved or purchase
    anything unless I at least do the minimum research first. I rely on myself,
    first, and only after I exhaust the resources I know, do I contact a
    so-called expert, meaning if I install an update and after the reboot my
    screen resolution has changed, I first try to reset the resolution myself.
    Not immediately post to a newsgroup crying Microsoft stole and/or ruined my
    widdle biddy icons. C'mon! You sound reasonably intelligent. Use some
    common sense.
    I'm far from being an expert. Everything I've learned about computers,
    hardware and software, I've learned by reading, doing, and when necessary,
    asking intelligent questions.
    No one here is responsible for babysitting some spoiled brat who just got a
    brand new laptop and went porn searching without any protection. It's a
    parents job to teach common sense, not a bunch of characters on an LCD. Why
    do you consider it a travesty for a user to open a help file and READ?
     
    Michael, Nov 12, 2009
    #58
  19. Please define "normal operation" for every situation...
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 12, 2009
    #59
  20. So be it - to each their own.

    *shrug*

    We disagree, but not as much as you think..

    I like to believe people want to learn to do things well. Takes some effort
    to do some things in life.

    I feel you are defining what people should know. I don't like to limit
    people's abilities that way.

    I am saying they could either learn what they need to know to do whatever it
    is they want in the best way possible or live with their ignorance and the
    consequences thereof - just like it always has been - always will be in some
    way. I'm not forcing anything on anyone. They are welcome to live in
    ignorance and blame others, or not. *grin*

    This 'tunnel vision' you seem to be imposing on people - well - this setting
    in this case happens to be part of the wall of the tunnel. ;-)
     
    Shenan Stanley, Nov 12, 2009
    #60
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