NETBIOS over TCPIP??? for windows machine on w2k3 network

Discussion in 'Server Networking' started by bbry, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. bbry

    bbry Guest

    I am setting up a win2k3 domain and a consultant told me
    to make sure every 98 box had netbios over tcp/ip checked?
    first of all how do I do this and second is it necessary.?

    what does this enable me to do by having netbios over
    tcp/ip enabled?

    thanks
     
    bbry, Feb 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. bbry

    Bill Grant Guest

    Haven't used W98 for a while, but it should be in the TCP/IP Advanced
    settings.

    Older Windows machines used the IBM/Microsoft proprietary protocol
    Netbeui to communicate on a network. This has essentially been replaced by
    Netbios over TCP/IP (sometimes abbreviated to Netbt) which uses the TCP/IP
    protocol.

    W2k3 does not support Netbeui, so clients without Netbt will not be able
    to communicate with W2k3 (unless you install the dsclient and use Active
    Directory and DNS).
     
    Bill Grant, Feb 21, 2004
    #2
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  3. bbry

    Jetro Guest

    It's shocking when people disrespect their own consultant/advisor/staff (you
    name it) and start to ask any stranger apparently trusting him more...

    Most probably you didn't get the consultant at all. This is W2k3 server
    which must have NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled in the mixed network with
    pre-W2k clients like W9x/NT. Downlevel clients use NetBIOS as the only
    communication interface offering a standard method for the provision and use
    of network services. NetBIOS isn't a routed protocol (moreover - it's not a
    protocol at all) and cannot overcome any router, unless high-level transport
    like TCP/IP or IPX/SPX is involved.
    If downlevel client utilizes only TCP/IP, then NetBIOS over TCP/IP enables
    automatically and you cannot change it (briefly, you need second transport
    protocol to manipulate it).
     
    Jetro, Feb 22, 2004
    #3
  4. bbry

    Roland Hall Guest

    :
    : It's shocking when people disrespect their own consultant/advisor/staff
    (you
    : name it) and start to ask any stranger apparently trusting him more...

    There is nothing wrong with questioning the advice from a
    consultant/advisor/staff. Would you rather blindly trust your family doctor
    or get a second opinion? *raises eyebrow*

    : Most probably you didn't get the consultant at all.

    You assume and it is not relative.

    : This is W2k3 server
    : which must have NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled in the mixed network with
    : pre-W2k clients like W9x/NT.

    True but that is not what he said. He said he was told the Win98 computers
    must have it enabled which doesn't exist because using TCP/IP is all they
    need do, since it is really NetBIOS over TCP/IP.

    : Downlevel clients use NetBIOS as the only communication interface offering
    a standard method for the provision and use
    : of network services.
    : NetBIOS isn't a routed protocol

    Correct but it is adaptable to use routed protocols, i.e. IPX, TCP/IP.

    : (moreover - it's not a protocol at all)

    Correct. It is an API for a suite of protocols. TCP/IP is not a protocol
    but rather a suite of protocols. However, it is acceptable to refer to
    NetBIOS, NetBEUI and TCP/IP as protocols.
    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/timothydevans/intro.htm

    : and cannot overcome any router, unless high-level transport like TCP/IP or
    IPX/SPX is involved.

    Correct.

    : If downlevel client utilizes only TCP/IP, then NetBIOS over TCP/IP
    enables
    : automatically and you cannot change it (briefly, you need second transport
    : protocol to manipulate it).

    Incorrect. NetBIOS over TCP/IP doesn't enable when TCP/IP is the only
    protocol. It only has NetBIOS over TCP/IP. It does not have or support
    native IP.

    It says TCP/IP but it is actually NetBIOS over TCP/IP. Microsoft just
    didn't label it correctly. Native IP has only existed on Windows since W2K.

    --
    Roland Hall
    /* This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
    without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
    or fitness for a particular purpose. */
    Online Support for IT Professionals -
    http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/technet/default.asp?fr=0&sd=tech
    How-to: Windows 2000 DNS:
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;308201
     
    Roland Hall, Feb 22, 2004
    #4
  5. bbry

    Jetro Guest

    Roland,

    Questioning the advice from a consultant/staff is a must, no doubt. Au
    contraire, I said asking 'nobody' to get a second option is a disrespect -
    you'd better fire/hire another consultant/staff in this case. I trust my
    family doctor, otherwise he wouldn't be a 'family' one. Indeed, this is not
    a blind trust, but this is not a paranoia as well. But asking the medical
    advice from his receptionist is a disrespect and paranoia.

    Let me skip all your 'correct' marks and other crap, but discuss a bit your
    last statement "NetBIOS over TCP/IP doesn't enable when TCP/IP is the only
    protocol. It only has NetBIOS over TCP/IP. It does not have or support
    native IP". Frankly, it sounds like W98 communicates with the Internet using
    NetBIOS. You'd better take W98, disable NetBIOS over TCP/IP, and connect to
    this newsgroup.
     
    Jetro, Feb 22, 2004
    #5
  6. bbry

    Roland Hall Guest

    :
    : Questioning the advice from a consultant/staff is a must, no doubt. Au
    : contraire, I said asking 'nobody' to get a second option is a disrespect -
    : you'd better fire/hire another consultant/staff in this case.

    If you question your consultant one time you have to them fire them? That
    sounds rather extreme. You cannot expect anyone to know everything about
    everything.

    : I trust my
    : family doctor, otherwise he wouldn't be a 'family' one. Indeed, this is
    not
    : a blind trust, but this is not a paranoia as well. But asking the medical
    : advice from his receptionist is a disrespect and paranoia.

    Apples and organges. I doubt everyone here classifies as the level of a
    receptionist in your scenario.

    : Let me skip all your 'correct' marks and other crap,

    Nice language Wally.

    : but discuss a bit your
    : last statement "NetBIOS over TCP/IP doesn't enable when TCP/IP is the only
    : protocol. It only has NetBIOS over TCP/IP. It does not have or support
    : native IP". Frankly, it sounds like W98 communicates with the Internet
    using
    : NetBIOS. You'd better take W98, disable NetBIOS over TCP/IP, and connect
    to
    : this newsgroup.

    Yes, there is a way to disable NetBIOS over TCP/IP in Windows 98 and I
    confused it with Windows 95. In Windows 95 you have to rename the vnbt.396
    file. However, NetBIOS does not enable just because you need to use it for
    workgroup/domain connectivity. It may not be utilized when communicating
    with a native IP device but it does not turn on and off as you imply. It is
    enabled and bound to the NIC.
     
    Roland Hall, Feb 23, 2004
    #6
  7. bbry

    Roland Hall Guest

    :
    : "Jetro" wrote:
    : : Questioning the advice from a consultant/staff is a must, no doubt. Au
    : : contraire, I said asking 'nobody' to get a second option is a
    disrespect -
    : : you'd better fire/hire another consultant/staff in this case.
    :
    : If you question your consultant one time you have to them fire them? That
    : sounds rather extreme. You cannot expect anyone to know everything about
    : everything.
    :
    : : I trust my
    : : family doctor, otherwise he wouldn't be a 'family' one. Indeed, this is
    : not
    : : a blind trust, but this is not a paranoia as well. But asking the
    medical
    : : advice from his receptionist is a disrespect and paranoia.
    :
    : Apples and organges. I doubt everyone here classifies as the level of a
    : receptionist in your scenario.
    :
    : : Let me skip all your 'correct' marks and other crap,
    :
    : Nice language Wally.
    :
    : : but discuss a bit your
    : : last statement "NetBIOS over TCP/IP doesn't enable when TCP/IP is the
    only
    : : protocol. It only has NetBIOS over TCP/IP. It does not have or support
    : : native IP". Frankly, it sounds like W98 communicates with the Internet
    : using
    : : NetBIOS. You'd better take W98, disable NetBIOS over TCP/IP, and connect
    : to
    : : this newsgroup.
    :
    : Yes, there is a way to disable NetBIOS over TCP/IP in Windows 98 and I
    : confused it with Windows 95. In Windows 95 you have to rename the
    vnbt.396
    : file. However, NetBIOS does not enable just because you need to use it
    for
    : workgroup/domain connectivity. It may not be utilized when communicating
    : with a native IP device but it does not turn on and off as you imply. It
    is
    : enabled and bound to the NIC.

    and if I knew how to type oranges and 386 my message might make more sense.
     
    Roland Hall, Feb 23, 2004
    #7
  8. bbry

    Jetro Guest

    I expect my consultant knows the subject at least better than me. It would
    be great at the same time if he understands what he's saying, but alas, I
    always want too much... Nobody's perfect. Lord, during 15 years in BBS and
    newsgroups I've read so many different opinions of 'experts' - I gave up
    polemizing long time ago.
    Back to the point: IIRC, having W95 and 3.x there was a neat solution just
    to comment out a line 'device=vnbt.386' in the [386enh] section of the
    System.ini file to disable NetBIOS (Nbt). For W98 it's possible to edit
    registry at HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Class\NetTrans\0001 and remove vnbt.386
    from DeviceVxDs in case of TCP/IP. Both variants are bad for MS network -
    it's disappearing. So the solution was, as I mentioned, to install second
    protocol - NetBEUI or IPX/SPX with NetBIOS over it, unbind TCP/IP from
    Client for MS Network and F&PSharing, if installed, and voila! - disable
    NetBIOS over TCP/IP using single checkbox. MS network comes back, and the
    Internet connection is so-so secure... (Do I deserve couple of beers after
    this total recall?)

    P.S. I'm glad you like my language :)
     
    Jetro, Feb 24, 2004
    #8
  9. bbry

    Roland Hall Guest

    :
    : I expect my consultant knows the subject at least better than me. It would
    : be great at the same time if he understands what he's saying, but alas, I
    : always want too much... Nobody's perfect. Lord, during 15 years in BBS and
    : newsgroups I've read so many different opinions of 'experts' - I gave up
    : polemizing long time ago.
    : Back to the point: IIRC, having W95 and 3.x there was a neat solution just
    : to comment out a line 'device=vnbt.386' in the [386enh] section of the
    : System.ini file to disable NetBIOS (Nbt). For W98 it's possible to edit
    : registry at HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Class\NetTrans\0001 and remove
    vnbt.386
    : from DeviceVxDs in case of TCP/IP. Both variants are bad for MS network -
    : it's disappearing. So the solution was, as I mentioned, to install second
    : protocol - NetBEUI or IPX/SPX with NetBIOS over it, unbind TCP/IP from
    : Client for MS Network and F&PSharing, if installed, and voila! - disable
    : NetBIOS over TCP/IP using single checkbox. MS network comes back, and the
    : Internet connection is so-so secure... (Do I deserve couple of beers after
    : this total recall?)

    Actually you are not so-so secure. I've hacked, in class of course, Netware
    Servers from Windows, bouncing off Solaris and HP/UX, through 2 firewalls.
    If you communicate with the Internet, and you're connected, you're never
    100% secure.

    As far as the beers go, I cannot contribute to the deliquency of minors.
    Sorry. How about a root beer?

    : P.S. I'm glad you like my language :)

    You should learn to recognize when someone is being facetious. (O:=
     
    Roland Hall, Feb 25, 2004
    #9
  10. bbry

    Jetro Guest

    You're not secure even if you're not connected. It is an old security adage
    that "If you can physically touch a system, then there is no security".
     
    Jetro, Feb 25, 2004
    #10
  11. bbry

    Roland Hall Guest

    :
    : You're not secure even if you're not connected. It is an old security
    adage
    : that "If you can physically touch a system, then there is no security".

    Ok, I'll agree with that but I'll deny it if asked.
     
    Roland Hall, Feb 27, 2004
    #11
  12. bbry

    Jetro Guest

    Why to deny something? You should learn more.
     
    Jetro, Feb 27, 2004
    #12
  13. bbry

    Roland Hall Guest

    :
    : Why to deny something? You should learn more.

    It was a joke. I guess I need a new writer. We also didn't cover wireless
    access if available which does not require wire or physical access but I
    thought our discussion was directed at network access and usually wireless
    access is to an AP, and not a workstation.
     
    Roland Hall, Feb 27, 2004
    #13
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