New discovery: Track tag editing not intuitive but works

Discussion in 'Windows Media Player' started by Dale, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. Dale

    Dale Guest

    I've posted a few comments about not being able to edit ID3 tags for files
    not in your library and not from the Now Playing panel. Even the Microsoft
    people on these groups have not challenged those statements. Well, I
    finally figured out that you can do it. I guess rather than file these
    issues under "lost functionality" we can file them under "simplification".
    Of course, Microsoft's definition of simplification must be different from
    mine. These things are definitely NOT simple or intuitive. As in much of
    the WMP11 interface, simplification means to make advanced features so hard
    to find or get to that only the simplest use of WMP11 is practical.

    The things I have said that you can't do, that I now know you can do, are:

    1. I said you can't edit tags for files not in your library but you can.
    This is related to #2 below. If you can't edit tags from Now Playing and
    Now Playing doesn't have the context menu option for Edit in Advanced Tag
    Editor any more - this has been replaced with Find in Library - then it
    would appear that you can't edit files not in your library. Well, since I
    figured out, as described in #2, how to edit from Now Playing, then it turns
    out you can edit tags for files not in your library.

    2. My habit for editing tags in WMP has usually been to drop files into the
    Now Playing panel at the right of the Now Playing tab. To edit files in
    bulk - for instance to set the Album Artist for a group of albums of the
    same artist, I would select all the tracks in Now Playing and choose Open in
    Advanced Tag Editor from the context menu.

    You can't do this in WMP 11 but you can get the same effect by dropping all
    the files you want into the Now Playing panel at the right of the Now
    Playing tab and then switching back to the Library tab at the top toolbar.

    On the treeview at the left of the Library view, there are 4 first-level
    options: Playlists, Now Playing, Library and (yuck!) URGE. Click on Now
    Playing here. This presents, in the larger library view, the same list as
    is in your Now Playing panel. From here, you can select multiple or all of
    the tracks as desired, right click on one of the selected files, and have
    the option of editing in Advanced Tag Editor - whether those files are in
    your library or not. Definitely not pretty or a simplification but it gets
    the job done.

    Of course, this does not fix the problem that WMP11 removed the file list
    from within Advanced Tag Editor. You can no longer do the bulk edit
    described above and then work with each individual tag to make individual
    changes within the same set of files. Now you have to do your bulk edits
    and then open Advanced Tag Editor for each individual file and close and
    re-open to get the next individual file.

    Dale
     
    Dale, Nov 26, 2006
    #1
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  2. Dale

    Mike Guest

    Or you could just do it the easy way: right click a file (or group of
    files) in explorer and select Properties, Details tab.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Nov 26, 2006
    #2
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  3. Dale

    Mike Guest

    Or you could just do it the easy way: right click a file (or group of
    files) in explorer and select Properties, Details tab.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Nov 26, 2006
    #3
  4. Which does not expose the full set of tags...
     
    Mike Williams, Nov 27, 2006
    #4
  5. Which does not expose the full set of tags...
     
    Mike Williams, Nov 27, 2006
    #5
  6. Dale

    Mike Guest

    What's missing?

    Mike
     
    Mike, Nov 27, 2006
    #6
  7. Dale

    Mike Guest

    What's missing?

    Mike
     
    Mike, Nov 27, 2006
    #7
  8. Dale

    Dale Guest

    Actually, the list on the Properties page is pretty complete - more so than
    most ID3 tag editors. It is missing picture tags and only allows a single
    comment tag. There are other tags not in the set, but like I said, the set
    of tags there is more complete than most so I only listed the significant
    missing tags.

    Worse than the missing tags, though, is the lack of standards enforcement
    for the remaining tags:

    The ID3V2.3 requires comments to have a description and then the comment
    text. Multiple comment tags are permitted. This is not supported in the
    Properties page.

    The spec allows track number to be entered in two ways: the number as in 5,
    or the number in relation to the total number of tracks, such as 5/12.
    Again, this is not supported in the Properties page - it only allows the
    first example. This is minor for me because I prefer the first way anyway.

    A more significant variance from the standard is that the Part of a set tag
    in the Properties page allows free text. In testing, for instance, I
    entered "Not part of a set" as the value and it stored that value. The
    standard allows for part of a set, or TPOS to be set as the disc number
    within a set, such as 1 or 2, etc. or the disc number in relation to the
    total number of discs in the set such as 1/2, 2/2.

    These are just a few examples. An unaware user could break their library,
    making it unusable.

    So, there are a lot of reasons for using a smarter tag editor than the
    properties pages in Windows Explorer. Or a smarter tag editor than the one
    in WMP for that matter.

    Dale
     
    Dale, Nov 27, 2006
    #8
  9. Dale

    Dale Guest

    Actually, the list on the Properties page is pretty complete - more so than
    most ID3 tag editors. It is missing picture tags and only allows a single
    comment tag. There are other tags not in the set, but like I said, the set
    of tags there is more complete than most so I only listed the significant
    missing tags.

    Worse than the missing tags, though, is the lack of standards enforcement
    for the remaining tags:

    The ID3V2.3 requires comments to have a description and then the comment
    text. Multiple comment tags are permitted. This is not supported in the
    Properties page.

    The spec allows track number to be entered in two ways: the number as in 5,
    or the number in relation to the total number of tracks, such as 5/12.
    Again, this is not supported in the Properties page - it only allows the
    first example. This is minor for me because I prefer the first way anyway.

    A more significant variance from the standard is that the Part of a set tag
    in the Properties page allows free text. In testing, for instance, I
    entered "Not part of a set" as the value and it stored that value. The
    standard allows for part of a set, or TPOS to be set as the disc number
    within a set, such as 1 or 2, etc. or the disc number in relation to the
    total number of discs in the set such as 1/2, 2/2.

    These are just a few examples. An unaware user could break their library,
    making it unusable.

    So, there are a lot of reasons for using a smarter tag editor than the
    properties pages in Windows Explorer. Or a smarter tag editor than the one
    in WMP for that matter.

    Dale
     
    Dale, Nov 27, 2006
    #9
  10. It doesn't support composer, or differentiate album vs contributing artist,
    or handle multiple genres. But then again WMP is still having trouble with
    these, despite many more iterations than Windows since the library was
    introduced.
     
    Mike Williams, Nov 27, 2006
    #10
  11. It doesn't support composer, or differentiate album vs contributing artist,
    or handle multiple genres. But then again WMP is still having trouble with
    these, despite many more iterations than Windows since the library was
    introduced.
     
    Mike Williams, Nov 27, 2006
    #11
  12. Dale

    Mike Guest

    It handles all of these. I'm talking about Vista here, not XP.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Nov 27, 2006
    #12
  13. Dale

    Mike Guest

    It handles all of these. I'm talking about Vista here, not XP.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Nov 27, 2006
    #13
  14. You have crossposted so much it's hard to tell. And from my own 9 months of
    beta-testing Vista, it doesn't handle those tags properly.
     
    Mike Williams, Nov 27, 2006
    #14
  15. You have crossposted so much it's hard to tell. And from my own 9 months of
    beta-testing Vista, it doesn't handle those tags properly.
     
    Mike Williams, Nov 27, 2006
    #15
  16. Dale

    Mike Guest

    Way to change the subject. I haven't crossposted any more than you have.
    I'm simply responding to the thread - just like you.
    In your opinion. But it does, in fact, support them. Which means you
    were wrong when you claimed that it didn't.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Nov 27, 2006
    #16
  17. Dale

    Mike Guest

    Way to change the subject. I haven't crossposted any more than you have.
    I'm simply responding to the thread - just like you.
    In your opinion. But it does, in fact, support them. Which means you
    were wrong when you claimed that it didn't.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Nov 27, 2006
    #17
  18. Dale

    Dale Guest

    Actually, I posted the original post into multiple groups because I had
    posted my complaints about the functionality in all of those groups.
    Therefore I posted my correction to all of those groups at once.

    I suppose we all should have stripped out the multiplicity when we responded
    but crossposting is not, in spite of some opinion to the contrary, a capital
    offense.

    Dale
     
    Dale, Nov 27, 2006
    #18
  19. Dale

    Dale Guest

    Actually, I posted the original post into multiple groups because I had
    posted my complaints about the functionality in all of those groups.
    Therefore I posted my correction to all of those groups at once.

    I suppose we all should have stripped out the multiplicity when we responded
    but crossposting is not, in spite of some opinion to the contrary, a capital
    offense.

    Dale
     
    Dale, Nov 27, 2006
    #19
  20. Dale

    Dale Guest

    The issue that I have, and many others have, with WMP and its library
    management is that it doesn't meet our needs or expectations. Just like the
    Windows Explorer property pages doesn't meet our expectations.

    On the other hand, for the vast majority of users, who perhaps aren't so
    anal about the accuracy of their data as I am, it works just great. Most
    people put their CDs in their drive, rip to WMP, and then play. That's all
    they care about. And for them, "supports" is good enough. I have no
    problem with that. I am not one of those people. I am anal about it and I
    want my data to be accurate and consistent. For me, "supports" is not good
    enough.

    If the Windows Explorer property pages editor meets your needs and
    expectations, then you should use it. More power to you.

    Dale
     
    Dale, Nov 27, 2006
    #20
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