Next release of Virtual PC

Discussion in 'Virtual PC' started by Guest, Dec 30, 2004.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi, Could anyone point me to information on the MS product roadmap for VPC
    and VPC server. I'd be interested to understand when the next releases are
    due, and what enhancements are planned.

    I need to make a decision before then end of Jan on whether to standardise
    on VPC or VMWare...

    Many thanks.
     
    Guest, Dec 30, 2004
    #1
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  2. Guest

    Steve Jain Guest

    Microsoft doesn't usually comment or post information on unreleased
    products.
    Steve Jain, Virtual PC for Windows MVP
    Website: http://www.essjae.com
    "This posting is provided "AS IS" with
    no warranties, and confers no rights.
    You assume all risk for your use."
     
    Steve Jain, Dec 30, 2004
    #2
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  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    So, no information on USB support, increasing max memory, snapshots, etc etc
    ? Kinda makes investing in a product strategy rather difficult doesn't it ?

    Of course, an IT manager in a large company with 100's of potential
    purchases would be provided with a roadmap and a comittment to a delivery
    schedule. However, anyone who only needs 10's of licences don't get any
    useful information or assistance.
     
    Guest, Dec 30, 2004
    #3
  4. You should decide based on the fact of the technology:

    1)
    VMware does NOT emulate the CPU nor the graphics card, so it is FASTER.
    VMware supports Linux very well.

    Vmware Workstation is little,
    the server versions are much more powerful.

    2)
    VirtualPC is crippled ( just 16 GB filespace !), from today's point of view,
    good for testing and test-installations :),
    good for cheating software vendors who want to "activate hardware" =
    well the hardware they activate ist a totally virtual hardware :)
    and for abusing 30-days-evaluation version by forever use :)

    Virtual Server ( the right name for "VPC server" ) is full blown
    "consolidation" instrument - no 16 GB filespace limit.

    VPC and VirtualServer don´t support Linux, officially.

    3)
    Alternatively, if you have just Linux, think of IBM and its P-Series:
    They offer "virtualisation" on a firmware/bios level.

    I visited special free sales roadshows for all 3 products, btw :).

    4)
    If you talk about USB emulation, you dont´talk about server
    applications, right ? But for a TCO driven project ? What kind of USB
    devices are you focussing on ? USB 2.0 harddisks ?

    Remember, for EACH image of a virtual PC, you need your OWN WinXP
    license ! Do you have such free budget for a rising number of WinXP
    licenses ?

    Remember Vmware is available for Linux AND for Windows !

    So don´t compare apples with peaches, but think about what you need.

    Sincerely
    Rolf
     
    Rolf Hemmerling, Dec 31, 2004
    #4
  5. Guest

    David Matson Guest

    man, i won't post anymore on this thread of this subject (to avoid a
    flame war), but you are correct that vmware is faster, for that has been
    my experience as well (i have ran VPC & vmware for years, with most of
    my work being with *nix running), but i find that since VPC emulates
    everything, that Linux's that are not *officially* supported run much
    better on VPC, and many times will not run in a GUI environment at all,
    in vmware.. basically, if you're only going to run the non-windows OS's
    that vmware supports, it's faster, but otherwise not. the other issue
    that i like about the competitor's product (vmware) is that it runs on
    linux.. but again, i won't say anymore on this subject. :)

    -matson



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    David Matson, Dec 31, 2004
    #5
  6. Hi Rolf,

    Just to correct two points that you have made:

    VMware does emulate a video card - it is simply one that does not exist.
    Also - Virtual PC is not limited to 16GB - that is just the default
    size that we offer.
    --
    Cheers,
    Benjamin Armstrong
    ===============================
    Virtual machine Program Manager

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
    You assume all risk for your use.
     
    Ben Armstrong [MSFT], Dec 31, 2004
    #6
  7. Guest

    Robert Comer Guest

    VMware does NOT emulate the CPU

    Neither does VPC for Windows.
    It does on my installation of vmware. (as does VPC.)
    Some distributions, yes, and that's why I have vmware installed too.
    That's not a true, you can create large disks for VPC, though I think there
    is a bios limit somewhere in the 100+GB somewhere. Just use the virtual
    disk wizard to create a large disk before you create your vm.
    And the IBM i-series (now i5) and the really big machines too, all support
    virtualization.
     
    Robert Comer, Dec 31, 2004
    #7
  8. Guest

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Neither VPC nor VMWare emulate the CPU, so I'm not really sure what
    you're getting at here.
    The Fedora Core 2 server I'm running (for experimentation, mainly) works
    fine under VPC.
    True of both VPC and VS.
    You can create a hard drive of virtually any size you want, 16GB just
    happens to be the default.
    huh? You could do the same on real hardware if you wanted, or with VMWare.
    This is true of VMWare too. What's your point?
    And Microsoft Word isn't available for Linux, but is available for
    Windows. What's your point?
     
    DevilsPGD, Dec 31, 2004
    #8
  9. Guest

    Robert Moir Guest

    So should you - what you seemed to be comparing it on was the basis of
    serious misconceptions.
     
    Robert Moir, Dec 31, 2004
    #9
  10. AFAIK: Wrong.
    I was told on official free "Microsoft [email protected]" events in Germany, a
    sales event for "Microsoft Partners", about this limit.
    It was an official MS announcment.

    VirtualServer is different, there is no such limit.

    I think its quiet positive that even if the maximum filesize is 16 GB,
    the emulator starts with a 1..3 GB file, so that not 16 GB are reserved
    from starting the emulation.

    Sincerely
    Rolf
     
    Rolf Hemmerling, Jan 1, 2005
    #10
  11. Hello !
    VPC emulates the CPU, AFAIK: Its a Pentium-III.
    VMware does NOT emulate the CPU: On an Athlon XP, you get an Athlon CPU,
    on a Pentium-IV, you get a Pentium-IV CPU.

    Remember that VPC was an original MacOS / MacOS-X only product,
    so they needed the CPU emulation.

    Remember today's CPUs have an product identification,
    some even a unique identification.

    The point is that if everything including the CPU and the MAC address of
    the virtual network card, is virtualized,
    you can move an image from ONE computer to the other,
    without problems with activation keys.

    Remember that today many products are "protected" by activation keys
    which are generated by the hardware.

    if you change the motherboard, you need another activation key.
    if you move a file image of a virtualPC to another PC, you don´t want to
    have to need a new activation key which depends on the new HOST computer
    !!! Hey you are running AN EMULATOR !!!
    Microsoft tells different even at offical Microsoft [email protected] events.

    I don´t see any switch to change the 16 GB limit of drive C: ( I did not
    reach it so far, but as I was told, I expect that it is a real barrier ).

    Of course you may have network file systems.

    But as you know, anybody LIKES to install EVERYTHING to C:\program files
    or even to
    C:\Winnt
    :-(
    You don´t need another HOST license.

    And remember that both WinXP home and W2k-pro, WinXp-Pro are crippled,
    concerning the number of network connections ( 10 connections at the
    same time ).

    So to run a virtual PC with Windows2003server WITHOUT this network
    limit, you must either run Linux or another Win2003Server as host. Means
    twice the price in case of a Windows host.

    Just VMware allows you to CHOOSE to buy either TWO Win2003 licenses or
    just ONE.

    And of course, in many cases, its no good choice to run virtualPCs to
    save money but you enlarge the license costs. So virtualisation is not
    really always the best choice ( but better to run the software on LESS
    but BIGGER servers ).
    The license cost, see above.

    Sincerely
    Rolf
     
    Rolf Hemmerling, Jan 1, 2005
    #11
  12. Guest

    Robert Comer Guest

    AFAIK: Wrong.
    Then they were wrong, it's easy to create a larger vhd in VPC. (up to 130GB)

    - Bob Comer
     
    Robert Comer, Jan 1, 2005
    #12
  13. Please tell me howto, or refer me to other WWW pages or forum discussions !

    120 GB is enough. of course.

    Sincerely
    Rolf
     
    Rolf Hemmerling, Jan 1, 2005
    #13
  14. Guest

    Robert Comer Guest

    VPC emulates the CPU, AFAIK: Its a Pentium-III.

    No, sorry.
    Same with VPC.
    Virtual PC for Mac and Virtual PC for Windows are two separate products --
    there's no need to emulate the CPU in VPC for Windows because it's already
    available to run natively.
    Same with vmware.
    Of course it doesn't change, you have to change the size when you create it
    if you want it to be bigger than 16G, that's the default and once the image
    is created, that's what it stays. (it doesn't allocate all 16G to begin
    with)

    - Bob Comer
     
    Robert Comer, Jan 1, 2005
    #14
  15. Guest

    Robert Comer Guest

    Please tell me howto, or refer me to other WWW pages or forum discussions
    Open up the Virtual PC Console, the go to the "File" menu, left click
    "Virtual Disk Wizard" on the first panel, just click "Next", then click
    "Create a new virtual disk", then "Next", then "A virtual hard disk", then
    "Next", then give it a name and path, then "Next", then choose "Dynamic" if
    you want it to expand to your size, or "Fixed" if you want to allocate it
    all at once, then "Next", then key in the size you want and hit "Next" and
    "Finish".

    You then have to go into the settings of a Virtual Machine and attach the
    newly created vhd.

    - Bob Comer
     
    Robert Comer, Jan 1, 2005
    #15
  16. Well since Ben is part of the group at Microsoft that is responsible for
    programming and maintaning VPC 2004 and Virtual Server 2005, I think that
    you can take his word for it, when he claims that 16Gb is not the limit :)

    If not just start the Virtual Disk Wizard from the VPC console and try
    entering a number higher than 16 Gb when creating a new virtual hard disk.
    As you can see, it'll accept up to 130557 Mb assuming that you have enough
    free space on your hard drive.

    Martin Moustgaard
     
    Martin Moustgaard, Jan 1, 2005
    #16
  17. Since Robert has corrected most of your errors, I'll just address one:

    This is not true. It's correct that XP has a limit of 10 concurrent network
    connection, but this limit doesn't in any way affect the guest
    installations. So you can do a Windows 2003 server guest installation on a
    Windows XP host system without being crippled by the 10 connection limit.
    Trust me,- I've done this many times during internal testing in my company.

    So off course you can spare the XP license by choosing VMWare and Linux as
    host but you don't need a Windows 2003 server acting as a host unless you
    plan to use Virtual Server 2005 in a production enviroment instead of
    Virtual PC 2004, but that's a different discussion.
    Dont forget that the price for VMWare's product is about 60$ higher that
    what Microsoft's charging for VPC 2004. This does not cover an XP license
    for the host system but it narrows the difference quite alot.

    Martin Moustgaard
     
    Martin Moustgaard, Jan 1, 2005
    #17
  18. Guest

    DevilsPGD Guest

    Not only that, but the "10 concurrent network connections" *only*
    applies to Windows' services. It does NOT limit the number of TCP
    connections you can establish at once, nor does it impact a Virtual PC
    at all.
     
    DevilsPGD, Jan 2, 2005
    #18
  19. Guest

    DevilsPGD Guest

    On the MacOS platform a Pentium III is emulated. This does not happen
    on Virtual PC for Windows. Since we're not in the Mac support group it
    is automatically assumed that all discussion here refers to the Windows
    product unless specifically specified.
    No, you're not running an emulator. VPC uses virtualization, not
    emulation (of the CPU, anyway)
    Either you are confused or the event presenter was confused.
    By default VPC creates a 16 GB virtual hard drive (which may be dynamic
    or fixed size on the disk), but you can use the virtual hard disk wizard
    to alter this.

    If I'm especially bored I can take some screenshots if you like.
    True, if you can live with a Linux host OS to begin with. Since my
    whole life doesn't resolve around Virtual PCs, running anything other
    then Win32 as a host isn't acceptable.
    Only the number of connections to Windows' internal networking
    components is limited. You can have as many TCP connections as you
    want, inbound or outbound.

    These limits do not apply to a Virtual PC in any way as Virtual PC
    effectively emulates a switched network, it doesn't create individual
    TCP sessions as far as the host is concerned. The VPC switch doesn't
    appear to be stateful although I've never done much testing.

    <snipped other comments based on a false assumption>
     
    DevilsPGD, Jan 2, 2005
    #19
  20. My point exactly :) I do recall that this subject has surfaced in this NG a
    couple of times last year, so it seems that some people are still a bit
    confused about this or just to lazy to google the NG :)

    Martin MOustgaard
     
    Martin Moustgaard, Jan 2, 2005
    #20
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