OT: General DVD-RW install question

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by DJ Bjorklund, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. DJ Bjorklund

    DJ Bjorklund Guest

    I just installed a new DVD-RW drive. Anyway, my CD-R drive
    disappeared (in both XP and Vista)

    Just to see the effect (which I guess I'm indeed seeing), I elected
    not to change the default jumper position, which was not the "cable
    select" position. The jumper was positioned in what was noted in the
    manual as "Reserved"(?) as I recall.

    Two questions:
    1.) To get my CD-R drive back in the mix, I just want to put the
    jumper for the new DVD drive in the good old "cable select" position,
    correct?

    2.) With my BIOS still set to boot from the CD first, as I sit now,
    (prior to repositioning the DVD-RW jumper) I assume the system would
    boot from the DVD drive?
     
    DJ Bjorklund, Jul 11, 2006
    #1
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  2. Drives are usually supplied jumpered as master.
    It is best to have the fastest drive - in data rate - jumpered as master, so
    you should change your CD-R jumper to slave.

    Your new drive will want UDMA Mode 4 so you should change the IDE cable to
    an 80 wire cable (from the usual 40 wire cable) if you have not done so
    already.
     
    Dominic Payer, Jul 11, 2006
    #2
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  3. DJ Bjorklund

    Chad Harris Guest

    I thought most of them were supplied jumpered as Cable select--but maybe
    that's most OEM sold optical drives or maybe not. The configuration is
    always embossed or stickered to the optical drive, but it's not always
    clearly marked and conveyed or even readable. Often it's diagramed better
    on the web site of the optical drive maker or easily google imaged or the
    diagram can be googled.

    Also my experience has been that some people have trouble getting their
    optical drive bios recognition because they don't have the bios entry
    entered and set to "automatic." There probably won't be an "on" but will be
    an "off."

    Many bioses recognized the DVD drive as "CD" but specify the make and model,
    particularly in relationships like Dell-Phoenix that don't produce bios
    updates frequently--years instead of months.

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Jul 11, 2006
    #3
  4. DJ Bjorklund

    DJ Bjorklund Guest

    The BIOS will then use the DVD-RW as the optical boot drive...?
    Also, because the Master/Slave jumpers deactivates cable select, it
    matters not which IDE plug is connected to either the CD or DVD,
    correct?
    Perhaps not surprisingly, this is news to me. I imagine UDMA Mode 4
    speeds the data along to and from the DVD(?). That same cable also
    connects to the CD, or to the DVD alone?
     
    DJ Bjorklund, Jul 11, 2006
    #4
  5. Depending on the BIOS either the master or both drives will be offered as
    optical boot devices.
    They will both be shown as CD drives unless a bootable DVD disk is present.
    The position on the cable doesn't matter if the drives are jumpered as
    master and slave.

    To ensure the DVD drive's write buffer is kept full you need an 80 wire
    cable.
    The 80 wire cable goes to both drives.
    Only the DVD drive needs 80 wires. It will make no difference to the CD
    drive.
     
    Dominic Payer, Jul 11, 2006
    #5
  6. DJ Bjorklund

    Chad Harris Guest

    Dominic--

    On one Dell box with a Phoenix bios it shipped the CD drive as Cable select.
    When I subbed it I set up the jumper for the DVD writer to be master and the
    CD drive to be slave. I didn't change from a 40 pin IDE. I had to enter
    the bios entry and set it to automatic. The CD drive worked perfectly
    before I made the switch and the DVD and the CD drive work perfectly now.

    Your 80 wire information is interesting, and I'll remember it. But it isn't
    necessary for me to get perfect CRC valid burns of Vista or to put Vista
    DVDs on boxes. All my backup to DVD burns write fine. I haven't had any
    buffer overrun or underrun problems to date.

    I'm writing DVDs with a Sony 820A internal burner on a 40 pin IDE. Works
    great.

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Jul 12, 2006
    #6
  7. If you buy a bare drive - OEM or retail - it will be jumpered master.
    System builders choose the jumper settings on systems they build.

    Most people don't burn with DVD drives at their maximum speed, currently
    usually 16x, so don't run into problems with 40 wire cables. When fast media
    fall in price and users start burning at 16x they may well find bad burns
    resulting.
     
    Dominic Payer, Jul 12, 2006
    #7
  8. DJ Bjorklund

    Chad Harris Guest

    Dominic--

    Appreciate this information. Most of us are urging to burn more slowly with
    ISOs like Vista but that is a good point--glad to learn it.

    I know that in the case of my older Dell boxes with OEM purchased CD
    drives--DVDs writer drives weren't standard a few years ago of course, I
    found that Dell shipped Cable select but I wouldn't question you as to how
    most companies ship.

    I had an interesting adventure getting things set up to work that now would
    take me a couple minutes after trial and error.

    Trying to use an external USB drive and boot a Vista DVD on it using an
    older box with an older Phoenix bios and Dell Mobo is of course not going to
    work.

    If you find a reference (link or links) that lists and explains which bioses
    will accomodate external USB DVD burners, or information in that vein, I'd
    sure like to see it. My experience and the mantra that only some of the
    newer mobos would accomodate booting a Vista DVD from an external USB drive
    left me curious as to how you would know if your newer mobo/bios would
    accomodate that and what percent of more recent mobos do allow booting the
    DVD from an external USB.

    Thanks,

    CH
     
    Chad Harris, Jul 12, 2006
    #8
  9. Chad,

    USB booting was a hot topic in mid-2004.
    See http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/usb-boot.mspx
    and
    http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=28700158

    I'd expect any recent BIOS to be able to boot from USB, but you might have
    to configure USB to enable it and then set the USB device in the boot order
    so that something else bootable didn't cut in first.

    I doubt there's any master list of BIOSes which are able to boot USB.
    BIOS companies make the facility available but motherboard manufacturers can
    adapt the BIOSes and reduce the number of options available to the user.

    See http://www.ami.com/amibios8/
    and
    http://www.phoenix.com/en/Products/Core+System+Software/Award+BIOS/default.htm
    The AMI BIOS user guide suggests that external devices generally can be
    booted, but the AWARD specification refers only to USB floppy.

    DP
     
    Dominic Payer, Jul 12, 2006
    #9
  10. I have a Phoenix BIOS on a fairly new notebook (ver. 66.sumthinorother) and
    it does have USB Hard Drive as an boot option, but I only tried a couple of
    times and never could get it to work right. May well have been the drive,
    too.
     
    Mark D. VandenBeg, Jul 12, 2006
    #10
  11. I was just in a chat today and the experts said that, while a team is
    working on usb booting, the feature is not Vista bound and is being worked
    on for the next version of Windows after Vista.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 13, 2006
    #11
  12. Still, if an external drive is attached and the BIOS has support for it...,
    would the O/S necessarily have to support it also? Or am I not seeing it
    correctly. In my mind, if the BIOS supports it, wouldn't the O/S see it as
    another partition?
     
    Mark D. VandenBeg, Jul 13, 2006
    #12
  13. Perhaps the problem is that Windows needs a bootable drive to be on the PCI
    bus and not just plug and play (which is enumerated later). The BIOS is not
    the whole story. The discovery of bootable partitions is necessary during
    POST.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 13, 2006
    #13
  14. Thought I was skipping a step. I'm giving up on the project until I have
    some more time to fuss with it. I did like your SATA workup, though. Very
    clever!
     
    Mark D. VandenBeg, Jul 13, 2006
    #14
  15. If you're referring to the ExpressCard/34 setup for laptops, thanks. I
    actually spent the money to get there. The SATA connection and the Hitachi
    hard drive are displayed right at the same point in startup I used to see my
    Promise ATA 133 card and its connected hard drives displayed when I use a
    PCI card for my first two drives, so I am very confident on this one.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jul 13, 2006
    #15
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