People Would Rather Pay For Windows Than Use Linux.

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by dont.pullout, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. dont.pullout

    dont.pullout Guest

    Linux is free.
    Windows is not.
    Linux has been free for a long time while Microsoft stagnated with
    Windows XP.
    Linux is free.
    Microsoft released a bomb called Windows ME.
    Linux is free.
    Microsoft has released a controversial to some (IOW not too good)
    operating system called Vista.
    Linux is free,

    So why the hell is Linux's desktop useage hovering around 1 percent?
    Why does Microsoft still have 95 to 98 percent of the market?

    After all, Linux is free.
    Free is a good thing except when what you are getting for free isn't
    so good afterall.

    How many people know or know of people who have downloaded Linux,
    tried Linux and then just as quickly dumped Linux and went back to
    Windows?
    It's a most common occurence.

    So Linux is free, and Windows is not.

    Where is Linux hiding?

    Considering there are over 600 different Linux distributions and more
    arriving by the day, you would think Linux would be all over the
    place.
    It's not.

    Every year it's the same crap from the Linux advocates "This is the
    year of Linux"
    Yea, well I've been hearing that crap for the past 10 years or more
    and it has never been, nor does the future seem to indicate that the
    year of Linux will ever arrive.

    Why?
     
    dont.pullout, Sep 8, 2007
    #1
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  2. dont.pullout

    Kerry Brown Guest


    Because it is free no one has come up with a way to make money from it. If
    no one is making money no one is selling it. If no one is selling it there
    is no mainstream distribution channel. Someone could easily create a
    distribution (Ubuntu is one) that could compete with Windows. To become
    popular and gain significant market share they would have to spend a lot of
    money marketing it. Where would they get a return from that investment? If
    there was a great demand for it OEMs would be free to distribute it and not
    pay the creator of the distro. The reason for slow linux adoption is not
    because it is technically inferior to Windows. It is financial and societal.
    The capitalist system doesn't work when trying to market something that is
    free.
     
    Kerry Brown, Sep 8, 2007
    #2
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  3. Linux is already technically superior to Windows however Windows has
    the base market share and quantity of users because of Microsoft's
    lock in.
    It's not easy for Windows, or any other OS using person to just jump
    ship and switch. There is a lot of money and time invested in the OS
    that they are currently running and the alternative has to provide a
    clear and worthwhile advantage.
    At the moment Linux does not provide such an advantage which is the
    primary reason why even though being free it has been almost totally
    ignored by Windows users, especially desktop users.

    A good example of where Linux is a worthwhile alternative is in the
    movie industry which is moving to Linux by storm.
    Why?
    Simple, they are moving off their highly proprietary and EXPENSIVE SGI
    hardware platforms onto Intel/AMD based generic platforms.
    Linux pundits like to use the movie studio example to show how Linux
    is gaining ground against Windows but the truth is that these studios
    were never using Windows much in the first place with the exception of
    the front office.

    So now you have average Joe with his entire life on his Windows
    machine and Linux has to provide him with a reason to switch.
    So what is it?
    He already has tons of software and doesn't mind paying for additional
    software if he needs it.
    His Windows machine syncs to his PDA, his Phone, his mp3 player and
    all his hardware and allows automatic updating of calenders, phone
    lists, mp3 files and so forth. He likes iTunes and uses day trading
    programs. He is also required to take corporate training, much of
    which is CBT based.

    Can Linux do all of that and do it easily and full featured?
    Doubtful.

    And THAT is why Linux is going no place on the desktop.

    Money CAN be made with Linux by selling services, which is the same
    way money is made with Windows. However you need to have people
    willing to use Linux first and then start selling them services
    contracts.
    It's chicken and egg all over again.
    I see Linux as a superior system but one that is going to ultimately
    fail due to lack of interest.
    It's a novelty now but seeing as it has gone virtually no place in 10
    years (desktop) I can't see a bright future for Linux.
    Devon
     
    devon.mcnasty, Sep 8, 2007
    #3
  4. dont.pullout

    keepout Guest

    there is NO SUPPORT for a FREE program
    there are very few programs written for Linux.
    Windows OWNS 90% of the computer market.
    No one's ever heard of Linux.
    The AVERAGE computer user, knows how to use a keyboard, pictures and a mouse.
    Linux needs technical knowledge just to set it up.
    M$ Support = 24/7 but costly. And severely limited in technical expertise.
     
    keepout, Sep 8, 2007
    #4
  5. dont.pullout

    Kerry Brown Guest

    For linux to become popular it has to be installed on OEM machines. This is
    what initially drives the market. When a new Microsoft OS comes out the
    previous is eventually made irrelevant because new computers have the new
    OS. Most people don't care what OS they run. They walk into a store and buy
    whatever the salesman gets the best commission on. Once they get home or
    back to work they try to figure out how to use it. If new computers came
    with linux they would figure out and use linux. This model isn't based on
    selling a service but selling a product. OEM's aren't going to switch to
    linux anytime soon for several reasons. The main one is money. They have a
    lot of money invested in the Windows ecosystem. It would be very expensive
    for them to switch to a different OS even if the OS was free. That brings up
    the second problem. If the OS is free where is the incentive to develop it
    into a product that can be sold? Yes, some money can be made selling
    services to medium and big business. No, a lot of money can't be made
    selling desktop services to the general public. Currently the general public
    through OEM computer sales drives the desktop market.

    I stand by my original assertion that there is no technical reason why linux
    can't compete with Windows. The reason it isn't competing is because of the
    way linux is licensed. In a capitalist society a free product can't compete
    with a product that has an easy revenue stream. Everyone in the channel gets
    a little piece of the pie so you have a very large channel with the company
    at the top (Microsoft) controlling the channel. With linux there is no
    channel. There is no one at the top controlling how the channel works. For
    some one to get to this position would be impossible with the linux license.

    I'm not saying this model is a good thing. In my opinion it is the way
    things work. Perhaps the linux community should look to Apple as a model.
    Someone needs to create a proprietary distro and spend 100's of millions
    marketing it :)
     
    Kerry Brown, Sep 8, 2007
    #5
  6. dont.pullout

    Alias Guest

    When XP came out, there was no mention of Linux on XP.general. Now even
    die hard MS fanboys are starting threads about Linux on this Vista
    newsgroup. Why?
     
    Alias, Sep 8, 2007
    #6
  7. dont.pullout

    Charlie Tame Guest


    Nail on head, simple as that.
     
    Charlie Tame, Sep 8, 2007
    #7
  8. dont.pullout

    Alias Guest

    Gosh, I guess this "MVP" hasn't heard of making money from tech support.
     
    Alias, Sep 8, 2007
    #8
  9. Because they like to annoy you!
     
    Spanky deMonkey, Sep 8, 2007
    #9
  10. dont.pullout

    Frank Guest

    They are?
    I don't think so!
    Frank
     
    Frank, Sep 8, 2007
    #10
  11. Didn't Linux go capitalist with Novell and Suse?
     
    Showbiz Albright 50 something and using Props, Sep 8, 2007
    #11
  12. dont.pullout

    Charlie Tame Guest


    Again very true, however one thing that may make a difference (I guess
    several smaller things).

    If people pay a lot of money out expecting the best and get something
    like Vista ultimate, but then run into loads of problems with it public
    opinion may be swayed. PO goes a long way in what the more knowledgable
    user will ask for from OEMs. IOW a lot of friends ask me about buying a
    new machine - what I say may influence them and their friends.

    PO is also influenced when paying customers are branded as thieves by an
    OS that assumes you stole it unless it can contact it's "Master", some
    server in Redmond. I entirely accept that MS has a legitimate piracy
    problem and has every right to act as they see fit in response, the same
    way that even as a Microsoft MVP and customer (and computer enthusiast)
    I have a right to complain about what I see as a major flaw with this
    policy.

    My company would not consider an OS upgrade in less than a year anyway,
    expecting some glitches, and at this time they are in any case tied into
    proprietary software that only runs on windows, However if the backlash
    against Vista prompts those software authors to supply a version that
    can use a non MS SQL and a server package that replaces W2003 the
    company will switch to the lowest cost solution. The users will also
    have to switch, that means the familiarity with the other solution will
    grow, and people are not too stupid to learn, they just tend to take the
    easy familiar path is all.

    By rearranging so many things in Vista that people hace grown familiar
    with in XP Microsoft HAS imposed a similar learning curve on all those
    users.

    The apple OS is much like Linux, Sun's Solaris is much like Linux, so
    although they will not directly be about to support free Linux there is
    a user base out there, which from a learning curve point of view is not
    insignificant.

    Microsoft's biggest threat from Linux is in fact Microsoft, and the
    various methods they have for demonstrating their own weaknesses to the
    maximum number of users at any time - it is generally easier to knock
    down the most exposed target. I think they are in danger mostly from
    their own policies, WGA representing a shot in one foot, Activation / GA
    being a shot to the other foot and the more recent debacle with an
    activation server failure (Their own software fell over?) just missed
    the head.
     
    Charlie Tame, Sep 8, 2007
    #12
  13. dont.pullout

    Charlie Tame Guest

    Who is "Windows?"
    And Linux is perfect for that and free.
    Less than Vista you obviously never tried.
    Also wrong, this group costs nothing and whilst some MVPs are nothing
    more than shills and fanboys they are the noisy minority, just as in any
    other group. Many MVPs advice and websites are far better than MS
    official ones. Learn what to ignore and you won't be anywhere near so
    misinformed, however it seem you chose to make a career out of being
    misinformed so maybe you better get back to work?
     
    Charlie Tame, Sep 8, 2007
    #13
  14. dont.pullout

    Alias Guest

    Doesn't annoy me at all. It is interesting that Linux is talked about
    here almost as much as Hasta la Vista, Baby!
     
    Alias, Sep 8, 2007
    #14
  15. dont.pullout

    Alias Guest

    Unbelievable, the old man is in a constant state of denial. Who started
    this thread about Linux?
     
    Alias, Sep 8, 2007
    #15
  16. dont.pullout

    Singer Guest

    But yet if you read Linux groups from a year ago you will find that many
    people will claim that it works fine for them. That is unfortunately
    another poor trait of Linux groups in general. Linux always seems to work
    fine for the Linux users yet these same people seem to have horrible
    problems with Windows.
    Linux advocates have been claiming for years that Linux fonts are fine yet
    it has just been recently, like the last 2 years or so where the Linux
    fonts have started to look good. Printing is another area where Linux users
    claim it just works. Sure it does, if you happen to own a Postscript or
    possibly HP printer which traditionally have worked reasonably well with
    Linux. Up until recently, printer support for Linux has been terrible.
    Even Eric Raymond had problems making CUPS work.

    http://catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html

    Yet there was the Linux community making all these wild -works for me-
    claims just like they generally do.

    Web browser plugins are another horror story, as you have found out.
    Depending upon the distribution, some work rather well these days but that
    was not always the case and once again the Linux advocates were claiming it
    works fine for them so it must be user error.

    People pay for Windows rather than use free Linux because their time is
    valuable and they don't feel like being treated to lies when they ask a
    question in a Linux group.
     
    Singer, Sep 8, 2007
    #16
  17. dont.pullout

    norm Guest

    Ah. Common sense. :)
     
    norm, Sep 8, 2007
    #17
  18. dont.pullout

    Charlie Tame Guest


    Makes a refreshing change here doesn't it Norm :)
     
    Charlie Tame, Sep 8, 2007
    #18
  19. dont.pullout

    norm Guest

    You have not looked very hard for such support. But, since you probably
    don't use linux, why would you look for support? It is much easier to
    make assumptions. If you download a free app for windows, might it have
    support, even if it is just a faq or something similar?
    My copy of kubuntu has access to thousands of programs through synaptic
    in just the repositories. There are thousands more that can be found by
    searching for what you might need.
    Even you have heard of linux. So it doesn't take an einstein to be aware
    of it.
    Yup. Insert a disk, and follow prompts for basic setup, which will
    generally satisfy most of the needs of your so called "average" user.
    ????.
     
    norm, Sep 8, 2007
    #19
  20. Classic MVP misdirection. While you can obtain SOME versions of Linux
    free online, it is also SOLD under many brand names and available both
    on the web from countless sources as well as in the retail channel at
    most computer/electronics retailers, like Best Buy, Circuit City,
    Fry's, CompuUSA, even in the chain book stores like Borders where some
    flavors are sold free standing as software others as a disc included
    with many Linux related books. Surely somebody is "making money" if it
    is this widely distributed.

    Very funny that Microsoft supporters need to LIE to defend Microsoft.

    This is NOT an endorsement of any flavor of Linux or any OS for that
    matter. Simply injecting some MUCH NEEDED truth into this thread.

    I have tried so far 7 versions of Linux. While not suitable for my
    specialized needs, it is a good choice for many. Ditto for Windows
    being a good choice for others. There is no one OS fits all. Period.

    As far as Windows or Linux being "better" as far as superior in some
    technological way that too is misleading since it depends WHAT you're
    going to do with the OS. For gaming and high end video work Linux at
    the present time isn't ready for prime time. However since a great
    many people don't waste their time with excessive game playing or do
    serious video editing and instead spend much of their time doing
    simple word processing, reading email, surfing the web Linux for many
    is equal to if not better than Windows if for no other reason some
    versions are much cleaner than bloated Vista. So they can be more
    stable, faster than Vista. Not everybody needs or wants some bloated
    OS that eats up 18 GB that's comprised of 50 million lines of bug
    infested code. Do the math. If Vista is 99% bug free look how many
    lines of code are still potentially buggy.
     
    Adam Albright, Sep 8, 2007
    #20
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