Discussion in 'Windows Vista Security' started by Johnny Fosse, Jan 29, 2009.

  1. Johnny Fosse

    Sam Hobbs Guest

    Even I understand that the people that want to mess with their system are
    owners of the system, so they are the Administrator too. That is not hard to
    Sam Hobbs, Feb 1, 2009
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  2. Johnny Fosse

    Sam Hobbs Guest

    Yes, but if you mess up your computer, don't ask here for help yet since you
    are asking here for help it is likely you will ask again. There is a reason
    why people here are reluctant to help you mess up your system.

    You are obviously not getting many important points that people are making.

    If you want to know what is on your computer, then read; then after you have
    read, ask about what you don't understand. Don't expect others to help you
    mess with your system without learning. Your initial question was vague and
    indicated very little understanding. You need to get that point.

    I know you are not a developer so the following is too technical, but it is
    an example of someone messing with something they should not mess with and
    then they ask for help when they don't realize they are responsible for
    messing it up.

    Visual Studios 2008 Professional refuses to compile some projects : Visual
    C++ General : Visual C++ : MSDN Forums
    Sam Hobbs, Feb 1, 2009
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  3. Johnny Fosse

    Kathy Guest

    You know my original question only required a yes or no. I just wanted to
    Kathy, Feb 1, 2009
  4. Johnny Fosse

    Sam Hobbs Guest

    Then you should have made that clear.

    Sam Hobbs, Feb 1, 2009
  5. Johnny Fosse

    SuperXero Guest

    owners of the system, so they are the Administrator too. That is no
    hard t

    Just because you own a computer does not make you an administrator. S
    I don't think you do understand. And If you do understand you wouldn'
    have a problem
    SuperXero, Feb 1, 2009
  6. Johnny Fosse

    SuperXero Guest

    Just because you own a computer does not make you an administrator. So
    don't think you do understand. And If you do understand you wouldn'
    have a problem
    SuperXero, Feb 1, 2009
  7. Sure it does, but unfortunately it doesn't make you worthy of the task - so
    you're it unless you delegate the task to another more worthy person.
    FromTheRafters, Feb 2, 2009
  8. It's is supremely difficult to make things clear for others when they
    aren't clear in one's own mind.
    Addison Steele, Feb 2, 2009
  9. To clear up, the correct answer to the OP original question is: for which
    she wanted a yes or no.


    Michael Walraven, Feb 2, 2009
  10. Johnny Fosse

    Guest Guest

    You were vague and have to take the heat for that. But the ensuing
    derisive storm was totally uncalled for. And the lack of helpful
    suggestion was also unacceptable.

    There's a common problem with "experts". Many have knowledge, but lack
    empathy. They can't or won't put themselves in your shoes and try to
    help you get YOUR job done YOUR way. They know it all, but don't
    comprehend that you don't! If they don't have a problem, there's
    no way you can have a problem...You're an idiot!!!!

    They make quick assumptions
    and shoot from the hip...and miss the target completely.
    "Whaddayoumean I gotta READ your question?"

    When you get a bunch of them in an anonymous forum where they
    have no accountability, you get this kind of unruly mob behavior.
    People routinely say stuff on the web that would net them a quick
    trip to the emergency room if they said it face to face. I worry
    that our kids are growing up in this "anything goes" environment
    and society will be much the worse for it. Another generation
    and it's gonna be a jungle out there.

    It's very common for an expert to leave out critical details that
    "everybody knows"...everybody except the person they're advising.
    They don't realize that the reason you can't comprehend their perfectly
    lucid argument is that it's incomplete. Add that to their tunnel vision
    and resistance to venturing outside the box and it becomes
    very difficult to get help.

    I used to have to edit all the technical manuals for complex
    electronic products. My engineers could write accurate documentation,
    it was just incomprehensible to the user. Rewriting just a few sentences
    could turn the user experience from "wtf?" to "I see how that works".
    I was never successful teaching that. Either you have it or you don't.

    The signal to noise ratio on the web is nearly zero, but it's still
    the best option for most of us. To get more signal, you just generate
    more noise and sort thru the result. The people with the best
    answers are often off doing something useful. They pop out of the
    woodwork when the discussion has gone terribly wrong.
    On many occasions, I've hammered
    on a point and weathered the derision until someone popped up
    with a simple, clear, concise, solution to my problem.

    I've experienced that any news group with "microsoft" in the title
    results in more grief on the way to
    a solution. Maybe higher percentage of solution, but also more grief
    getting to it. And the solutions are almost always straight
    down the party line. If you want anything off the beaten path,
    look elsewhere. All you'll get here are directions back to the path.

    Just ignore the name calling and search for useful nuggets of data.
    If you keep pushing, some nugget of useful info can emerge from the storm.

    Watch the responses to this and take special note of the irony.

    If you want to have some fun, tell an expert, "statistically,
    half of you experts are below average. And the bar for average
    is set mighty low."

    Back to your original question...
    My solution when I find something I can't change or overwrite
    is to take ownership of the parent directory and allow myself permission
    to it and all the subdirectories. Just taking ownership of the file I
    want to delete doesn't seem to let me change permissions.
    I'd ask why, but I don't have time
    for the responses I'd get.
    I expect that this brute force strategy is gonna cause me
    grief down the road, but nobody is willing to help me discover
    an intermediate option.
    Guess that's what backups are for. Vista is only good for another year

    If you haven't noticed yet, M$ has decided to punish developers that
    use the .hlp help system. I guess nobody bothered to tell them that
    those developers are long gone. Only people being punished are users.
    Anyway, there's no help for legacy .hlp programs. And M$ expressly
    PROHIBITS vendors from distributing the means to view their help files.
    No problem, you can download it from M$.
    Assuming you have an active broadband web connection at the time you
    need it. But wait, you're trying to PIRATE the help system, so you
    gotta download and run a tool that proves that you're not a pirate.
    Then you get to download an update file that contains the fix and
    whoknowswhat other hidden spyware. Which you can then install
    IF you have updates enabled.
    OR, you can copy two files from XP.
    But wait, you can't overwrite or delete the winhlp32.exe stub.
    Which brings us right back to the topic at hand...inability
    to manage your computer (in this case, get back what M$ took away)
    because of the security settings.
    The good news is that by now, I've forgotten why I needed access
    to that help file anyway. M$ was right in denying me access...was
    for my own good. M$ really does know best.

    Let me say again...
    There are many reasons to have tight system security.
    I get that. Just give me a way to relax it for MY system.
    I do NOT want tight system security that inhibits my
    ability to use MY system.
    Guest, Feb 2, 2009
  11. Johnny Fosse

    Sam Hobbs Guest

    It depends on your definition of Administrator. In my definition, you are
    incorrect. I am defining an Administrator as having legal access to the
    Administrator account, therefore ownership implies Administrator.
    Sam Hobbs, Feb 2, 2009
  12. Johnny Fosse

    Sam Hobbs Guest

    To the extent that is true, it is unproductive to be critical.

    An alternative explanation is that some people are inexperienced in asking
    for help in groups and forums and therefore they are inexperienced at making
    a good question. So ideally they would apologize and become educated. That
    unfortunately is less likely to happen when people attack immediately as
    happened here instead of respectfully asking for clarification.
    Sam Hobbs, Feb 2, 2009
  13. I beg to differ. I am a firm believer in "Stupid should HURT".
    Addison Steele, Feb 2, 2009
  14. Johnny Fosse

    Sam Hobbs Guest

    Except if hurt means dumping on others to inflict emotional pain then that
    is done for the purpose of emotional gratification of the person dumping but
    it is counter-productive with the goal of getting cooperation and is a huge
    problem in the world.
    Sam Hobbs, Feb 4, 2009
  15. Johnny Fosse

    SuperXero Guest

    Which administrator account? Vista has 2 different types of admin
    accounts. The Real one is disabled by default, so unless the user
    enabled it through computer management or the command line then they
    only have a regular account with administrative privileges. This is
    done to protect the end user.

    *'HackingManual.Net' (http://HackingManual.Net)*
    SuperXero, Feb 4, 2009
  16. Johnny Fosse

    troylawson Guest

    Hiyo everyone,
    I am a noobie to Vista Forums(Yea!). I have been reading the
    thread and I had a question related to permissions. If I made my
    computer(Assembled it really) and it was not pulled off any shelf,
    installed all the apps including Vista Home Premium 64-bit(No easy
    task), living alone if I'm not the Administrator of my system and
    network who is? I realize I am no expert and there things in place for
    my protection. What I've learned about computers, I learned trial and
    error with lots of error. But I have had computers since the 80286 with
    a Herc graphics card, and monochrome monitor. I feel that if there is a
    file I want to delete, then by golly it's my God-given right as an
    American U.S. Navy Vet of the 1st Gulf War, and there should be nohing
    but fear standing in the way, not even Bill Gates or Microsoft for that
    matter. How can I get the full hidden Admin permission? I have the Admin
    account. I feel like everytime I want to do something I have to ask my
    mother's permission. It's my computer for gosh sakes. Any insight?
    troylawson :cool::geek::D
    troylawson, Feb 23, 2009
  17. Johnny Fosse

    Sam Hobbs Guest

    I think your question should be ignored; you are "hijacking" a thread that
    has grown immensely. People that are most serious about helping without
    making trouble will ignore this thread. Of course, I get the impression you
    just want to make trouble also, since you are not really asking a question.

    Yes, you can mess with your computer but don't expect someone here to fix it
    for you. You might get help here but just don't expect it.

    If you were to ask directions for getting somewhere and then you decided
    that there is a shortcut and they tell you there are landmines there and you
    say you have a right to go wherever you want to go then don't expect the
    others to run out and get you when you get blown up.

    For what it is worth, I still have an IBM PC XT 286.
    Sam Hobbs, Feb 24, 2009
  18. Johnny Fosse

    Chief Guest

    Sam Hobbs must be wearing his underwear too tight. I think it's a damm good
    question that needs an answer. I too would like to know how to have full
    admin permission. Would some non smart ass out there help us?
    Chief, Apr 2, 2009
  19. Johnny Fosse

    omalakas Guest

    This is not possible with Microsoft Vista and 7 or Linux (yes we have to
    enter credentials in Linux and Unix for decades now in order to do
    administrative tasks and no one complains), but if you insist, you have some
    You can enable the default "Administrator" account (disabled by default) and
    then login with this account, free to open a backdoor for every malware out
    there ...
    Another option but not as exciting is to disable the UAC, again you are free
    to create a small disaster even by mistake...
    And for the boring ones, just use the runas command, but this is safe and
    will not make you feel the power of Administrator or the excitement of be
    the "King of PC" ...
    omalakas, Apr 2, 2009
  20. Enable the so-called "real" or "hidden" 'Administrator' account and use
    that. Still not all powerful, but more like XPs.
    FromTheRafters, Apr 2, 2009
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