PLEASE stop nagging us to reboot!!!!

Discussion in 'Windows Update' started by Jon Davis, Apr 5, 2006.

  1. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis Guest

    If anyone at Microsoft is reading this, let me add my voice in and beg you,
    on my knees, ...

    PLEASE stop nagging us to reboot!!

    Some of us are advanced users and we do actually happen to know when the
    best time to reboot after an update is. But as a matter of habit I will
    often get notice the "Update Available" system tray icon and click on it and
    let it do its thing--always first observing what's affected first--but I may
    need at least another hour or two of doing other administrative
    tasks--actually, in my case, doing development work on things that I know
    are not affected by the update I had installed. But every few minutes my
    work is inturrupted with a dialog box, "HEY, YOU SHOULD RESTART, WOULD YOU
    LIKE TO NOW OR LATER?" I click later and it inturrupts me again. On and on
    the cycle goes, sometimes for days if I'm on a system that cannot rebooted
    for a while, and I can't roll back. Guys, clicking on that "Later" button ..
    that's not "later" that's only a moment.

    If I kill the nagging process in the Task Manager, it just goes and replaces
    itself!!

    This is ludicrous!! Quit assuming that YOUR updates are more important than
    OUR productivity. I'll restart whenever I %@^! well feel like it. Please
    knock this off!!

    Sincerely, wholeheartedly, and very, very annoyed,

    Jon
     
    Jon Davis, Apr 5, 2006
    #1
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  2. Jon Davis

    Les Rivett Guest

    Some people are on dial-up too and having to reboot unnecessarily adds
    additional costs to the phone bill.
    I'm with you there Jon.
     
    Les Rivett, Apr 5, 2006
    #2
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  3. You decided (as an "advanced user and who actually happens to know when the
    best time to reboot after an update is") to choose fully automatic updates
    instead of just "Download updates for me, but let me choose when to install
    them."

    Interesting.

    If you just set your automatic updates to that - then you have full control
    over the process - choosing WHEN to install them and thus - when to reboot.
    Some of the updates may have replaced critical files or need to register
    certain DLLS or need to replace in-use files.. So - it's asking you to
    reboot to finish the installation process. If you controlled when it
    installed (which you have always had the choice to do, as you obviously knew
    as an advanced user) - then your problem goes away. After all - what;s the
    use in allowing automatic updates fully if you don't plan on rebooting and
    letting the patch finish its job - which means whatever security hole it was
    patching is likely still open until you do.
     
    Shenan Stanley, Apr 5, 2006
    #3
  4. Jon;
    That has been brought up before and probably will not change since you
    already have options in Windows Update.
    The best option for you may be to change your Windows Update options.
    Since you are an advanced user you can effectively monitor and update at a
    convenient time for you.

    "sometimes for days"
    That is a bad practice on your part.
    The update is not always fully installed and thus the protection/change not
    always available until after a reboot.
    If you can not reboot soon (< 2 hours), do not install the update.

    But if you want to bring it up to Microsoft again, this is the wrong place
    since these newsgroups are not officially monitored by Microsoft. When
    someone from Microsoft is here, it is on their own time.
    Try here instead:
    https://support.microsoft.com/common/survey.aspx?scid=sw;en;1214&showpage=1&WS=Wish
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Apr 5, 2006
    #4
  5. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis Guest

    I DO!! I install when convenient. I even visit the web site now and then and
    do it from there, completely manually. But then I am NAGGED TO DEATH to
    reboot when I may not want to reboot until later, I just wanted to have the
    updates cached and out of my way till next reboot cycle (maybe end of the
    week).

    And I'm fully aware that updated files are not replaced if they are in use,
    or that some apps or system resources can become unstable, etc., etc., until
    reboot, because some files are replaced, blah blah blah. I wasn't born last
    year. I just want the nagging to stop when I MANUALLY update via Windows
    Update or via the "downloaded but not installed" option w/ the icon saying
    that updates are "ready".
    Don't tell me about "bad practices", I know what I'm doing. I happen to be
    cognizant of the updates. For instance, .NET Framework doesn't need a reboot
    and when Windows thinks it does then I don't care about the files that need
    to be replaced, but I might need the Framework updated NOW to test a simple
    assembly, but cannot afford to shut down a server for it. The files not in
    use do get updated and the assemblies can execute fine for my assembly I'm
    testing, but I'm still nagged to death to reboot.

    Or, there may be Internet Explorer updates, which I want installed so that I
    don't have to think about installing them next time the server is cycled but
    it's not something I need fully installed and fully functional yet.

    Generally I install when updates are ready, if I feel they won't break
    things half-installed, just so that I don't have to focus any thought toward
    them later, when I am ready to reboot.

    Etc., etc. Don't argue with me, I just plain don't want to be NAGGED, I want
    FULL CONTROL of my operating environment and I HATE it when the OS vendor
    takes over in this way.
    Uh, yes. I want to do what I like. I would suggest Microsoft wait to show me
    the "updates are ready" nag icon (which I want to see) only when I'm ready
    to reboot soon, but they haven't come out with "read your mind" software. So
    in the mean time I would rather they just give us the benefit of a doubt!!
    Of course not "officially". But they are monitored. That's why I said "if".
    Yeah well I welcome them to hear my rants while downing that submarine
    sandwich.

    Jon
     
    Jon Davis, Apr 5, 2006
    #5
  6. "I DO!! I install when convenient."
    Installing includes the necessary reboot, so it seems you don't if you are
    unable to reboot at that time.
    There are already several options and as said earlier, it is unlikely
    another will be added.
    You need to work with what is available until you and others who believe as
    you, convince Microsoft to change.

    "But they are monitored"
    Not regularly or consistently since these are peer to peer support
    newsgroups.
    There is a good chance your post and even this thread may never be seen by
    Microsoft.

    So I guess that means you will make no attempt to notify Microsoft of your
    needs through an appropriate channel?
    As I said before, this is not the place if you want assurance that Microsoft
    will see it.

    --
    Jupiter Jones [MVP]
    http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
    http://www.dts-l.org
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Apr 5, 2006
    #6
  7. Hi,

    After the first reboot offer dialog box have popped up, you can stop
    it from repeating by stopping the Automatic Updates service.

    Start/Run --> services.msc

    Right click on the "Automatic Updates" entry, and select "Stop".


    Alternatively you can change the amount of time for Automatic Updates
    to wait before prompting again for restart.

    You do that by setting the policy "Re-prompt for restart with scheduled
    installations" (1440 minutes is max).

    Windows XP Home does not have gpedit.msc, so the procedure below does
    not apply (but you can set the registry setting manually yourself for
    that OS I think).

    Start/Run --> gpedit.msc

    Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows
    Components -> Windows Update -> Re-prompt for restart with scheduled
    installations

    Regards,
    Torgeir
     
    Torgeir Bakken \(MVP\), Apr 5, 2006
    #7
  8. ....

    What are you killing? Just wuauclt.exe?
    (Use Task Manager and its right-click Show Process to identify it.)

    Try stopping wuauserv too?


    ---
     
    Robert Aldwinckle, Apr 5, 2006
    #8
  9. Jon Davis

    maximillianx Guest

    Jon -

    Your opinion is in the minority - and as such, I'm afraid you won't find
    much sympathy for your situation as you can fully control your OS and its
    behavior with regards to Windows Updates. You may have to do a little
    Googling, but the information is there. The opinion of most people who work
    with Windows Updates and Update Services is "don't install an update unless
    you know you can reboot after." This is the safest update practice
    possible.

    As far as your question:
    Why don't you just switch your Automatic Updates through the Control Panel
    to 'off', and then just go to Windows Update once per week for your updates
    when you know you can reboot? I'm sorry that you feel annoyed about the
    Windows Updates, but can you imagine the legal backlash that Microsoft would
    experience if they didn't remind people to restart? Unfortunately, not
    everyone is as computer savvy as you and need this reminder.

    You mentioned that you will install updates anyway "if I feel they won't
    break things half-installed" - this is a very dangerous assumption, as you
    obviously know - and it is because of assumptions like this that Microsoft
    reminds you to reboot.

    I know this doesn't need to be stated, but for the other thread readers
    benefit in the future:
    When you run your computer after an update has been applied, it is in a (as
    you know) a "not fully patched" state, so therefore, for your computing
    stability, MS recommends that you restart your computer as soon as possible.
    This is why they are reminding you over and over again - basically, it's to
    put the onus on you, not Microsoft, if something doesn't work because you
    didn't reboot.

    What would happen on the flipside if Windows didn't remind you to reboot?
    Lets say you installed an update, forgot to reboot, ran your program,
    something broke because of an outdated DLL or existing exploit, etc., and
    you lost company data? I would think that you would be very upset (as well
    as millions of others), right? As a result, we would probably see another
    post from you ranting about why Microsoft doesn't remind people to reboot,
    etc. - of course that's an assumption, but my guess is that you wouldn't be
    alone in your posting. This is why Microsoft takes every opportunity to
    remind you to restart your computer after an update. This is also why they
    provide you with the means to very granularly configure the behavior of
    your Windows Update agent.

    I would follow Torgeir's suggestion and turn off Automatic Updates, then go
    to Windows Update. Pick a time that you can afford to reboot during your
    obviously busy schedule. If you just want a particular update, just pick
    the one that you need and install. Don't worry about the other ones - if
    you know that the update won't need a restart, then you won't run into the
    problem of running in a patched but not rebooted state. This information is
    fully documented in each bulletin, so you shouldn't have much of a problem
    there.

    If you want to be notified of new updates, then sign up for Microsoft's
    security mailing list or RSS feed. There are plenty of options available to
    you to be notified without seeing the task bar notifications.

    Rob
     
    maximillianx, Apr 5, 2006
    #9
  10. Hi,

    Just to clear up any misunderstanding, my advice to Jon wasn't to turn
    of the Automatic Updates functionality, but only to temporarily stop
    the service to stop the reboot offer from repeating itself.
     
    Torgeir Bakken \(MVP\), Apr 5, 2006
    #10
  11. Jon Davis

    maximillianx Guest

    Ah - thank you :)
     
    maximillianx, Apr 5, 2006
    #11
  12. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis Guest

    I would follow Torgeir's suggestion and turn off Automatic Updates, then
    For the nth time, this happens if I update through the "update available"
    icon as well as if I use the web site.

    The software industry has well established the honor system of "Restart
    Later" meaning "don't remind me again". If Microsoft is just looking after
    its legal assets by not at least just making the "restart now" thing be a
    baloon message rather than an in-your-face dialog box that inturrupts
    whatever you're doing, then I will count this as another reason to
    reconsider my ten-year tenure as a total Microsoft Windows devotee and
    enthusiast for software development and administration.

    Jon
     
    Jon Davis, Apr 5, 2006
    #12
  13. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis Guest

    Thanks for this information. Someone finally provided useful info rather
    than tell me how to conform to "best practices" as though I was just another
    user who shouldn't be allowed a rope with which he has the option of hanging
    himself.

    I did know that there are ways around this; my complaint stands. Baloon
    tips, please, not inturrupting dialog boxes. Microsoft is not playing by the
    rules of fair software design, IMO.

    Jon
     
    Jon Davis, Apr 5, 2006
    #13
  14. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis Guest

    Note to self ... After installing updates,

    Start->Run...

    net stop "Automatic Updates"

    - Jon
     
    Jon Davis, Apr 5, 2006
    #14

  15. "Honor System"..
    Show me where that "honor system" code is, please. =)

    Also - you are not just updating software - you are updating the underlying
    code that is your operating system - where you run all this "software" (on
    top of the OS) who supposedly have this "honor system". =)

    All the software I have seen either does not have this option, let's you
    cancel out of the rest of the process (warning you that you should reboot
    before using their software), actually has a spelled out choice of "don't
    remind me" or doesn't give you any choice what-so-ever(if you click OK on
    the message - you are rebooting.) Again - we are talking "software" there -
    it runs on top of your OS and you have the choice of running it or not.
    When you upgrade the OS - you are upgrading the currently running
    application and probably many dependencies that other software packages may
    attempt to use during your normal work.


    I will say it again - yes - you said you were following the "it told me
    updates were available to install" and not pure automatic updates.. That's
    good. What you end up pointing out about yourself is that you choose to
    install the update at a non-opportune moment - and then complain when it
    does what it was designed to do and you KNEW it might do in asking you to
    reboot the OS. If you don't want the hassle - don't install until you can.
    Since it is already downloaded (excluding a very few extras out there - not
    really critcal/security updates) - you have eliminated the possibly longest
    part of the process. And if you do it monthly - that shortens the time
    immensely.. So you could tell it to install when you are ready to reboot
    and go..

    Or even properly shutdown your computer and when it does - it will ask you
    if you wish to Install the updates and then shut down..
    (May even do it when you properly restart - I cannot recall at the moment) -
    and in that way - you were already shutting down/restarting and you are just
    incorporating the installation of the updates with that - without extra
    effort on your part.
     
    Shenan Stanley, Apr 5, 2006
    #15
  16. Jon Davis

    maximillianx Guest

    will count this as another reason to reconsider my ten-year tenure as a
    I'm sure no one here would stop you from doing otherwise.
     
    maximillianx, Apr 5, 2006
    #16
  17. Jon Davis

    maximillianx Guest

    For the nth time, this happens if I update through the "update available"
    ....then this is a result of _you_ updating your PC with updates that require
    a restart.

    I will say again, if you don't want the pop-up dialog telling you to
    restart, then your solution is to NOT install the updates that require a
    restart. The information is contained within the documentation - otherwise,
    all you will receive are notification balloons which you said you could deal
    with.
     
    maximillianx, Apr 5, 2006
    #17
  18. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis Guest

    I can deal with notification balloons. I cannot deal with modal dialogs. I
    get modal dialogs.

    Jon
     
    Jon Davis, Apr 5, 2006
    #18
  19. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis Guest

    I will say again, if you don't want the pop-up dialog telling you to
    Incorrect, since I already explained that my intent is to install updates
    that require a restart but delay the restart; any other scenario is
    irrelevant to my requirements (you don't know me nor what I do).

    The solution, as was observed in another subthread is

    net stop "Automatic Updates"

    ... after installing updates (manually from the web or otherwise).
    Unfortunately, I have not tested this solution yet, but it sounds acceptable
    enough while I wait for Microsoft to fix this with an nag opt-out option.
    (And I just got an e-mail from MS saying that they'd have their devs look
    into it.)

    Jon
     
    Jon Davis, Apr 5, 2006
    #19
  20. Jon Davis

    PA Bear Guest

    <yawn>
     
    PA Bear, Apr 5, 2006
    #20
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