problem persists - unreliable folder sync with DeltaSync and @live adresses - can IMAP be an alterna

Discussion in 'Windows Live Mail' started by Roland Schweiger, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. WLM running on Win7_64bit on several machines.
    One address is an @live one and has a few subfolders and one or two
    subfolders of the subfolder and size of all the contents is lets say
    300 MB so somehow overseeable.

    As often disgussed in the past - this time it's no 3204 and no 5102
    error but the subfolders are so unreliable that they become
    practically unusable.
    Often they simpy dissappear, reappear the next day, the sub-subfolder
    is suddenly gone and when you push eMails into the (sub)folder, it
    will not sync on the server but show no error message either; even
    worse, on one occasion (a lady friend of mine, happened just
    yesterday) the subfolder-structure disappeared completely ... an this
    time on the server as well because when logging in with the webmailer
    the folders were also gone.
    I was able to help (used the "previous version" thing of the VSS
    volume shaddow copy to locally retrieve the lost mails) but if i (and
    i suppose some tohers too) want to continue using WLM (which i do)
    there must be some alternative.

    Possibly IMAP?

    I know that MS aims to replace IMAP e.g. by DeltaSync but i am
    wondering and asking if any body dit this - if i couzld try to use the
    @live address with IMAP in case it works more stable.

    As i understand, @outlook.com and @live.xy addresses can be used with
    imap and the server imap-amil.outlook.com
    Before i do this, just wondering if anyone has any experience of if
    there is something i have to pay attention to e.g. the name of the
    special folders
    inbox, outbox, junk .... do they have special names (this is the case
    with some other eMail providers).

    I will continue to use the calendar / contact sync on wlm as this is
    independant of eMail usage, just wonder if i as stated can delete the
    @live accont, and recreate it with correct IMAP settings and ... if
    this really might solve the problem.


    Greetings

    Roland Schweiger
     
    Roland Schweiger, Nov 30, 2013
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Roland Schweiger

    VanguardLH Guest

    For Hotmail (and now Live and Outlook.com), Microsoft supported POP3,
    then dropped it for free accounts, then restored it. Hotmail never
    supported IMAP and Microsoft made faint promises to support IMAP but
    never did. They claim WebDAV and its replacement Deltasync are better
    than IMAP despite only Microsoft clients are the only ones that can
    support Microsoft's proprietary protocols. So even if it was better,
    few (MS only) clients support it. POP3 and IMAP are the RFC
    standardized e-mail protocols but Microsoft doesn't care. They have
    their own agenda.

    You can only use POP3 or Deltasync to get e-mails from your
    Hotmail/Live/Outlook.com account(s).
     
    VanguardLH, Nov 30, 2013
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. "VanguardLH"

    No not quite true, only just recently microsoft did add IMAP support
    for outlook.com and thus also for @live addresses.

    The servers are
    imap-mail.outlook.com
    smtp-mail.outlook.com

    (though the SMTP server has nothing to do with IMAP). The standard
    ports por secure eMail are used.

    It might interest others - i just made a test with my @live address.
    Removed the (DeltaSync) account in WLM, closed WLM, reopened it and
    added my @live eMail address again,
    this time by manually configuring the servers (in my German version
    this is called "Servereinstellungen manuell vornehmen" and it's a
    little checkbox when setting up an eMail account), then i entered the
    IMAP servers correspondingly and i did the same thing on a second
    machine.

    Then i sent myself a few test-mails from another account, then i
    created some random nonsense sub-folders and some even more nonsense
    subfolders of the subfolders to try to demonstrate everyday life for
    later on.
    And i bounced some eMails back and forth and meanwhile also opened the
    web interface to see sync status.

    My tests now only last for a few hours but i can say the following
    until now:

    The 2 machines running windows7 and WLM work and up to now sync fine
    with IMAP and my @live address, carefully speaking, it does seem
    stable until now.
    The special folders on the server work, only the "deleted items" has a
    second name in German "gelöschte Objekte" thus it appears twice, but
    sent, junk and inbox are the same.

    The webinterface does sometimes seem to lag behind when logging into
    www.outlook.com
    E.g. an email that i sent from my @live address i then moved from the
    "sent items" to a subfolder --- on both Windows machines this syncs
    correctly,
    but in the WEBINTERFACE it still shows up in "sent items".

    Well i do know that IMAP also has some problems e.g. every eMail has
    to be sent twice (once to the destination and once to the sent-items
    folder)
    and i know that DeltaSync was definately ment as a good idea but it
    has so many problems in WLM -
    i finally hope that this new feature - supporting IMAP for outlooi.com
    is more reliable.

    Wonder if anyone is testing this too.

    greetings from Vienna

    Roland Schweiger
     
    Roland Schweiger, Dec 1, 2013
    #3
  4. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    Fyi..

    http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-outlook/archive/2013/09/12/outlook-com-now-with-imap.aspx

    With respect to WLM (since its legacy and frozen code) while IMAP
    servers may function for Hotmail type email accounts (Hotmail, Live,
    Msn, Outlook.com) the DeltaSync protocol continues to be the default and
    recommended protocol for 'folder and message' mirroring locally and on
    the server.
     
    ...winston, Dec 1, 2013
    #4
  5. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    Just and fyi.
    DeltaSync and its server support for the protocol is legacy code.
    Likewise WLM is legacy and frozen code.

    Exchange Active Sync (EAS) replaces DeltaSync in Win8x Mail app and
    Outlook 2013.

    For Hotmail type accounts (Hotmail, Live, MSn, and Outlook.com)
    DeltaSync continues to be the recommended format in WLM (11,12) for
    local and online folder/message sync.

    For Windows 8x Mail app and Outlook 2013 Active Exchange Sync (EAS) is
    still the recommended protocol unless the device or mail client doesn't
    support EAS then IMAP provides an alternative to 'no-sync' POP3.
     
    ...winston, Dec 1, 2013
    #5
  6. Roland Schweiger

    VanguardLH Guest

    Microsoft just keeps pushing their proprietary e-mail protocols although
    the standard ones have and continue to work just fine for *e-mail*.
    There's no requirement that an e-mail protocol must encompass other
    non-email protocols to handle contact, calendar, and other
    synchronization tasks. Just Microsoft bucking standards and promoting
    their own.
     
    VanguardLH, Dec 1, 2013
    #6
  7. Roland Schweiger

    VanguardLH Guest

    From what I recall, those IMAP servers were established for use by
    either mobile users using apps or for Windows 8 users using the included
    Mail client in that version of Windows which has no POP3 support (yeah,
    Microsoft included a crippled e-mail client in Windows 8).

    http://www.howtogeek.com/130516/how-to-access-pop3-email-accounts-in-windows-8/
    "The Mail app included with Windows 8 only supports IMAP, Exchange,
    Hotmail/Outlook.com, and Gmail accounts."

    I wasn't aware that Microsoft's IMAP server are publicly available to
    all users, including those not using mobile apps or the Windows 8 mail
    app.

    As I recall, users had problems when using the new IMAP servers. I
    think it was something about the initial setup of IMAP wiped their
    accounts or they had to subscribe for the IMAP service and then wait
    until their request got acknowledged and enabled. There was some nasty
    I remember users reporting about switching to the IMAP service and why I
    don't recommend it. Maybe winston remembers what was the gotcha.
     
    VanguardLH, Dec 1, 2013
    #7
  8. "...winston" schrieb im Newsbeitrag

    Do you know if the CalendarSYNC of WLM also uses DeltaSync or is this
    a different protocol? I only intend to switch the @live address to
    IMAP just incase the folder syncing performs better.

    So is it meanwhile a fact that WLM is legacy? I often hear that also
    Windows8 users use WLM on the desktop side as the NUI mail app does
    not provide all the features.
    Still a shame ... WLMs overall functionality is good, why abandon it?

    greetings

    Roland Schweiger
     
    Roland Schweiger, Dec 1, 2013
    #8
  9. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    To the best of my recollection, IMAP in WLM had a history of issues
    during the 2008/2009 era (synchronization, missing folders, locally
    deleted messages not syncing upward causing local duplicates). The
    engine was improved in 2011 and iirc little unchanged in 2012 though
    some issues (timeout, sync) continued when WLM housed accounts using
    both types of protocols (DeltaSync and IMAP) - with the IMAP failing
    authorization.

    Likewise the Win8 Mail app had a few updates for IMAP - Adding the
    protocol and subsequent reliability updates also in sharing the code
    deployed across non-pc based devices. The first-gen Win8 IMAP was
    functional but felt like a regression to the stone-age. It's gotten
    better but still needs work.

    Side note: There are also optional servers/ports etc. for Outlook.com
    when using POP3
    - http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/outlook/send-receive-from-app
     
    ...winston, Dec 2, 2013
    #9
  10. Roland Schweiger

    ...winston Guest

    Roland Schweiger wrote, On 12/1/2013 6:44 AM:
    Calendar sync is hard-coded and uses the DeltaSync server

    Legacy doesn't necessarily mean abandon immediately. The first level is
    usually frozen code and only updated with QFE's for security or if
    necessary due to deploying other shared files (e.g in Windows Updates).
    Since its part of a suite updating doesn't mean code changes for the
    entire suite of products. The last update involved Photo Gallery, Movie
    Maker, Writer and the deprecation of Messenger. Mail was untouched
    feature wise, but shared files for sync (Photo Email also available as a
    menu option in Photo Gallery) and to accomodate SkyDrive changes were
    present.

    The mail app in Win 8x has gotten better but its really designed and
    modeled to be relatively common to smart devices (phones, tablets etc.)
    - i.e never intended or designed to be a desktop client as a
    replacement for WLM or Office.

    ...w
     
    ...winston, Dec 3, 2013
    #10
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.