"Real WMV" 2-hour movie, 148.50 Mhz, 1920 x 1080 progerssive scan image, 1-bit file size

Discussion in 'Windows Media Player' started by Radium, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. Radium

    Radium Guest

    Hi:

    Here is my hypothetical scenario:

    A two-hour movie is made using the finest video recording equipment
    availabe today. The movie is recorded in digital uncompressed RGB
    format, with a sample rate of 148.50 MHz, 1920 X 1080 progressive scan
    image resolution, and a color-depth of 32-bit. After this movie is
    recorded, its format is changed from uncompressed digital RGB to "Real
    WMV".

    "Real WMV" is described in the following threads:

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.compression/browse_frm/thread/1c5...

    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.video.desktop/browse_frm/thread/dd...

    The WMV now has a sample rate, color-depth, and image-resolution
    exactly the same as what the RGB had. After this, the color-depth of
    the WMV file is compressed SOOOO much that the file-size is only 1-bit!
    However, the image-resolution [in pixel X pixel], sample rate, and the
    length of the movie -- 2 hours -- remain the same.

    After this, the WMV video is then converted back to uncompressed RGB
    [I'll call this the "2nd RGB"]. The 2nd RGB has the same sample-rate,
    image format ["resolution"], and color-depth as the 1st RGB. However,
    the WMV truncation of the color-depth would obviously show up in the
    2nd RGB because the 2nd RGB previously was WMV.

    My question is, how would this 2nd RGB video look like after the above
    processes?

    How would this video look like? I imagine that the pictures and their
    motions would be very clear [in terms of image-clarity] with no
    skipping. The only artifacts would be those affecting the colors. These
    artifacts would be very extreme because when the 2nd RGB was in its
    compressed WMV format, it was of such infinitisemly small color
    resolution. Do I guess right?


    Thanks,

    Radium

    P.S. Why not use this WMV for video-conferencing or for online video
    viewing? There are many who watch their movies by downloading them from
    a website.
     
    Radium, Oct 23, 2006
    #1
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  2. Radium

    Lionel Guest

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Bzzzt! Error!
    No, not possible.
     
    Lionel, Oct 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. Radium

    Lionel Guest

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Bzzzt! Error!
    No, not possible.
     
    Lionel, Oct 23, 2006
    #3
  4. Radium

    Radium Guest

    Why not? A 44.1 Khz WMA file can have a bit-rate as low as 20 kbps. In
    uncompressed digital formats, you need at least a bit per sample. Not
    necessarily so in compressed formats. That is how a WMA file can have a
    bit-rate lower than its sample rate.
     
    Radium, Oct 23, 2006
    #4
  5. Radium

    Tom P. Guest

    Why not? Because when you use compression you have to compress
    something. You can't use compression and have everything be the same.

    Oh, and as for the initial question, it's impossible. You cannot
    compress any amount of data smaller than 4 bytes. Look up the wmv
    spec. Even if the picture was a blank screen it would take more than 4
    bytes.

    Or are you asking if you compress all the information out of a signal
    will that affect the signal? Um, yes. That's what you are doing.

    Tom P.
     
    Tom P., Oct 23, 2006
    #5
  6. <snip repeated tourettes-style posting>

    You are a troll.


    OK I'll bite on this one :
    One word - Latency.

    Read more about why latency is important :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_Low_Delay_Audio_Coder

    And in an article almost perfeectly named for you :
    'Rants : It's the Latency, Stupid' - from 1996 and still relevant
    http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/rants/Latency.html


    Cheers - Neil
     
    Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media], Oct 23, 2006
    #6
  7. Radium

    Lionel Guest

    Information theory proves it impossible.
    Yeah, whatever. Put up a 2 hour, single bit movie on a website
    somewhere if you want anyone to take you seriously.
     
    Lionel, Oct 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Radium

    Lionel Guest

    Information theory proves it impossible.
    Yeah, whatever. Put up a 2 hour, single bit movie on a website
    somewhere if you want anyone to take you seriously.
     
    Lionel, Oct 24, 2006
    #8
  9. Radium

    stratus46 Guest

    Be nice. 'Radium' is in the end phase of decaying into 'lead'........

    GG
     
    stratus46, Oct 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Radium

    Phil Carmody Guest

    1's easy, Matt can do that with a custom-build of BARFEST, I'm sure.

    Put up _3_ such movies, then I'll be impressed!

    Phil
     
    Phil Carmody, Oct 24, 2006
    #10
  11. Radium

    Phil Carmody Guest

    1's easy, Matt can do that with a custom-build of BARFEST, I'm sure.

    Put up _3_ such movies, then I'll be impressed!

    Phil
     
    Phil Carmody, Oct 24, 2006
    #11
  12. Radium

    Lionel Guest

    So will I - seeing as even the most generous interpretation of the
    maths allows only 2 different decompressed output datasets from a
    compressed file containing a single bit. (Assuming of course that
    you're using the same decompressor each time. ;)
    Mind you, the decompression program's probably going to be pretty big.
    ;)
     
    Lionel, Oct 24, 2006
    #12
  13. Radium

    Lionel Guest

    So will I - seeing as even the most generous interpretation of the
    maths allows only 2 different decompressed output datasets from a
    compressed file containing a single bit. (Assuming of course that
    you're using the same decompressor each time. ;)
    Mind you, the decompression program's probably going to be pretty big.
    ;)
     
    Lionel, Oct 24, 2006
    #13
  14. Radium

    markn Guest

    Yeah, whatever. Put up a 2 hour, single bit movie on a website
    I was going to start a business selling single bit movies - it seems
    like a natural, the download times are pretty short.

    But for some reason, after working on it a long time, I was only able
    to put two movies into my inventory. My investors said that I wasn't
    going to be able to capture first mover advantage in the
    single-bit-movie business with just two movies, so we backed off and
    shut the plan down.

    However, I haven't given up yet, I think I may be able to do better
    with two-bit movies. I'm working on the compression algorithm right
    now, and we'll see if I can get a larger inventory.

    |
    | Mark Nelson - http://marknelson.us
    |
     
    markn, Oct 24, 2006
    #14
  15. Excellent point...
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Oct 24, 2006
    #15
  16. Excellent point...
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Oct 24, 2006
    #16
  17. Radium

    Phil Carmody Guest

    Oi! It was /I/ who made the excellent point, it's just that
    no-one bloody understood it! Slap-wristies if you needed the
    explanation.

    Phil
     
    Phil Carmody, Oct 24, 2006
    #17
  18. Radium

    Phil Carmody Guest

    Oi! It was /I/ who made the excellent point, it's just that
    no-one bloody understood it! Slap-wristies if you needed the
    explanation.

    Phil
     
    Phil Carmody, Oct 24, 2006
    #18
  19. True about one bit ==> two movies; I was remarking on the *size of the
    decompressor*, something I should have realized without having to be
    coached... [1]

    This (and newsgroups in general, of course) is a community effort, and
    sometimes it's hard to give credit properly...

    Sorry: I'll try to do better in the future,
    Gino

    [1] I've often remarked on the high degree in redundancy in music. For
    instance, on my hearing the first chord, the whole Eroica symphony pops
    into my mind (well, tries to, at least). This is an excellent example
    of the size needed for the decompressor program.
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Oct 24, 2006
    #19
  20. True about one bit ==> two movies; I was remarking on the *size of the
    decompressor*, something I should have realized without having to be
    coached... [1]

    This (and newsgroups in general, of course) is a community effort, and
    sometimes it's hard to give credit properly...

    Sorry: I'll try to do better in the future,
    Gino

    [1] I've often remarked on the high degree in redundancy in music. For
    instance, on my hearing the first chord, the whole Eroica symphony pops
    into my mind (well, tries to, at least). This is an excellent example
    of the size needed for the decompressor program.
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Oct 24, 2006
    #20
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