Recommendation: Do NOT install SP2 at this time.

Discussion in 'Windows Update' started by David Cook, Aug 28, 2004.

  1. David Cook

    David Cook Guest

    I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing SP2 for a few months,
    until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance to learn how to
    'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

    Consider this point of view:
    o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE as 'the computer
    won't
    boot' after installing SP2.
    o You are currently at SP1 and have all the incremental-fixes applied
    and your
    machine is working very well, right?

    So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is gonna do for you?
    Protect
    your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the individual security
    fixes from
    the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually) rolled up into a
    LARGE
    package, along with some new functionality (that you probably do not need
    YET).
    Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after SP2, it automatically
    enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all, especially if you
    are
    already protected by a firewall by your router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
    And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN YOUR BASE
    WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

    Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install SP2 at this time!

    Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-pack' bundles were
    released,
    there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few months! (To be very
    fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out and solved. But,
    not without
    leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers who got burned.)

    So, I assert that 99% of you out there are MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
    you ought to install it just because it's available.

    Again, past history says that there will be a 'better, bug-fixed' iteration
    of SP2
    a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably just SILENTLY slip
    into the servers at Windows-Update without ever admitting that the earlier
    ones
    had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

    As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

    Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will still be out there a
    few
    months from now.

    Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

    Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]
     
    David Cook, Aug 28, 2004
    #1
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  2. SP2 has undergone extensive testing on hundreds of thousands
    of computers. It is a solid, secure product. SP2 has been
    "released to manufacturing" and is not going to be modified.
    If you are having some issues, please see the following:

    Troubleshooting SP2 for Windows XP
    http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm

    --
    Carey Frisch
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows XP - Shell/User

    Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    :

    | I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing SP2 for a few months,
    | until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance to learn how to
    | 'pull the arrows out of their butts'.
    |
    | Consider this point of view:
    | o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE as 'the computer
    | won't
    | boot' after installing SP2.
    | o You are currently at SP1 and have all the incremental-fixes applied
    | and your
    | machine is working very well, right?
    |
    | So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is gonna do for you?
    | Protect
    | your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the individual security
    | fixes from
    | the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually) rolled up into a
    | LARGE
    | package, along with some new functionality (that you probably do not need
    | YET).
    | Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after SP2, it automatically
    | enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all, especially if you
    | are
    | already protected by a firewall by your router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
    | And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN YOUR BASE
    | WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!
    |
    | Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install SP2 at this time!
    |
    | Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-pack' bundles were
    | released,
    | there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few months! (To be very
    | fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out and solved. But,
    | not without
    | leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers who got burned.)
    |
    | So, I assert that 99% of you out there are MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
    | you ought to install it just because it's available.
    |
    | Again, past history says that there will be a 'better, bug-fixed' iteration
    | of SP2
    | a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably just SILENTLY slip
    | into the servers at Windows-Update without ever admitting that the earlier
    | ones
    | had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).
    |
    | As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"
    |
    | Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will still be out there a
    | few
    | months from now.
    |
    | Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.
    |
    | Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]
    |
    |
     
    Carey Frisch [MVP], Aug 28, 2004
    #2
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  3. David Cook

    JonS Guest

    It may have undergone extensive testing on hundreds of thousands of
    computers, but it really screwed up mine when I tried to go from SP1 to SP2.
    My page file has gone to its reward. I keep getting a message that c:\$Mft is
    corrupt. (Does anybody know how to fix?) I concur with David Cook'c advice on
    not installing SP2 at this time.

     
    JonS, Aug 28, 2004
    #3
  4. David Cook

    Bob Fliegel Guest

    Amen, David! I, too, see no compelling reason to install SP2 until all the
    smoke clears. There've been just too many horror stories already reported to
    justify the risk.

    Like you, I have SP1 and have made every critical update since then. Have
    never had a prob with intrusions of any kind. What I fear most about SP2 is
    the firewall configuration--how easy it will be to tweak it so the baby
    doesn't get thrown out with the bath water. Right now I use the XP Pro
    integrated firewall sporadically. I have to disable it temporarily, if I know
    I'm going to want to send files from within ICQ or MSN Messenger. Right now
    it's reasonably easy to toggle it on and off. I wonder whether it'll be just
    as easy with SP2.

    -- Bob

     
    Bob Fliegel, Aug 28, 2004
    #4
  5. The problem you are experiencing is totally unrelated
    to SP2. For a possible solution, please read:
    http://forum.gladiator-antivirus.com/index.php?showtopic=10769

    I would suggest performing the following maintenance prior to
    installing SP2:

    Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310312&Product=winxp

    How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315265&Product=winxp

    HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;305781&Product=winxp

    --
    Carey Frisch
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows XP - Shell/User

    Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    :

    | It may have undergone extensive testing on hundreds of thousands of
    | computers, but it really screwed up mine when I tried to go from SP1 to SP2.
    | My page file has gone to its reward. I keep getting a message that c:\$Mft is
    | corrupt. (Does anybody know how to fix?)
     
    Carey Frisch [MVP], Aug 28, 2004
    #5
  6. David Cook

    RobertJ923 Guest

    I would assume MVP means Marketing Vice President. Do you really think a
    Microsoft Marketing VP, or anyone employed by MS, is going to be honest
    about all the faults with this release???

    The link she provides, if you go look, puts the LIE to her claims. She
    apparently didn't even read her own documentation!!! How can she say, "is
    not going to be modified," when it specifically states there will be future
    HOTFIXes???

    Extracts from her link:
    "All loopback addresses except 127.0.0.1 don't work with Service Pack 2.
    This is actually a defect, and there will be a hotfix."

    "Another consideration is the following. Service Pack 2 does install on
    Windows XP OEM versions, i.e. those that came with a computer and are tied to
    that computer. But if you run into a problem, these OEM versions usually
    cannot do repair installations. Often they only allow you to erase everything
    entirely and start from scratch. In other words, with only an OEM install CD,
    you run the small additional risk, should the SP2 installation go wrong, of
    either losing your installation and having to start all over or having to buy
    a full version of Windows XP."

    "Closing Remarks - This message is not complete, but will be amended as new
    information becomes available. There are various other potential causes for
    problems."

    A cynic only from experience,
    Robert
    "Seeing the Picture Clearly"

     
    RobertJ923, Aug 28, 2004
    #6
  7. David Cook

    Josh Klug Guest

    As one of your 'pioneers' with SP2, I've been using it since beta release, I
    can say that its very stable and a worthwhile update. Since I installed it,
    Iv've actually had LESS problems with my computer. The built in pop-up
    blocker in IE works beatuifully, and my machine is more stable than ever. I
    would suggest that everyone installs it. My only problem is that since i
    installed the beta SP2, I cannot seem to download and install the full
    release. It keeps failing on me. If anyone had a fix for this problem, please
    let me know. Besides this, everyting works very well.

     
    Josh Klug, Aug 28, 2004
    #7
  8. David Cook

    Leon Guest

    MVPs are Most Valuable Professionals who are customers and
    not employees of Microsoft:

    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/

    Leon

     
    Leon, Aug 28, 2004
    #8
  9. There may be future updates or hotfixes to SP2, but the
    core SP2 installation package will not change. The subsequent updates
    updates or hotfixes will install after the core SP2 installation package
    has been installed. This is true of all released service packs.

    If you purchase a new vehicle, and lets say you receive a
    recall notice, does the dealer replace your new vehicle with
    another one, or do they fix the specific problem?

    --
    Carey Frisch
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows XP - Shell/User

    Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

    "RobertJ923" sacastically wrote:

    | I would assume MVP means Marketing Vice President. Do you really think a
    | Microsoft Marketing VP, or anyone employed by MS, is going to be honest
    | about all the faults with this release???
    |
    | The link she provides, if you go look, puts the LIE to her claims. She
    | apparently didn't even read her own documentation!!! How can she say, "is
    | not going to be modified," when it specifically states there will be future
    | HOTFIXes???
    |
    | Extracts from her link:
    | "All loopback addresses except 127.0.0.1 don't work with Service Pack 2.
    | This is actually a defect, and there will be a hotfix."
    |
    | "Another consideration is the following. Service Pack 2 does install on
    | Windows XP OEM versions, i.e. those that came with a computer and are tied to
    | that computer. But if you run into a problem, these OEM versions usually
    | cannot do repair installations. Often they only allow you to erase everything
    | entirely and start from scratch. In other words, with only an OEM install CD,
    | you run the small additional risk, should the SP2 installation go wrong, of
    | either losing your installation and having to start all over or having to buy
    | a full version of Windows XP."
    |
    | "Closing Remarks - This message is not complete, but will be amended as new
    | information becomes available. There are various other potential causes for
    | problems."
    |
    | A cynic only from experience,
    | Robert
     
    Carey Frisch [MVP], Aug 28, 2004
    #9
  10. David Cook

    JonS Guest

    It may be unrelated, but, what a strange coincidence that it happened during
    the switch to SP2. I stand by my previous recommendation.
     
    JonS, Aug 28, 2004
    #10
  11. David Cook

    rpwalleston Guest

    If I bought a car and when I put the key in it didn't start (after I
    installed service pack 2 my computer would not restart) I would definately
    get a new one!!!
     
    rpwalleston, Aug 28, 2004
    #11
  12. David Cook

    Steve S. Guest

    I would say that the problem's appearance after the sp2 update makes it
    absolutely related.
    But, that's only logic, un-colored by the view through micosoft glasses.
     
    Steve S., Aug 28, 2004
    #12
  13. David Cook

    mennikatz Guest

    I agree. I am going to hold off installation because I
    have a scanner and there are umax.dll files in the driver
    cache. Uninstalling the scanner driver - great! Is there
    any guarantee that the scanner will work if I reinstall
    the driver after installing SP2? If I have to choose
    between my scanner and SP2 the scanner stays put. My
    present security has not let me down so far. When these
    problems have been fixed I will install it. As for
    anyone, representing Microsoft or otherwise, to say they
    will not be making any changes to SP2 in the future, I am
    spluttering with indignation. Does this mean that the
    problems reported here, some very serious, will be
    ignored? Although I always installed critical updates, I
    made a rule never to install a new operating system or
    major upgrade until the bugs were fixed. I was tempted to
    break the rule and install SP2 but I'm very glad I have
    read the posts here before doing so. Thanks, guys & gals
    for reporting your problems, you have likely saved me
    from disaster.
    router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
     
    mennikatz, Aug 28, 2004
    #13
  14. David Cook

    Garabaldi Guest

     
    Garabaldi, Aug 28, 2004
    #14
  15. You may wish to not get a flu shot this year, and also
    cancel all your health, auto and home insurance since
    you never had anything bad happen.....yet!
     
    Carey Frisch [MVP], Aug 28, 2004
    #15
  16. Carey

    We appreciate all the help you and your fellow mvp's give these boards

    but , surely, there comes a point when you see 4 or 5 xp newsgroups
    bombarded with sp2 problems, that the point must be made to microsoft
    that they should clear up their own mess and not leave it to you
    heroic volunteers.

    Regards

    David M Wicker
     
    David M Wicker, Aug 28, 2004
    #16
  17. David Cook

    Alias Guest

    And what, pray tell, could happen? This should be good and no MS links,
    please. Use your own words. Do you even realize that you just made a
    sarcastic threat? It's quite reasonable and prudent to wait on installing
    SP2. Not everyone has the technical knowledge you have if something goes
    wrong, speaking of "you never had anything bad happen ... yet!".

    Alias
     
    Alias, Aug 29, 2004
    #17
  18. David Cook

    brushes Guest

    If MicroSoft move into the business of taking care of my personal health
    issues I can assure you that I would be avoiding any injections after the
    stramash of this update!

    Carey, being as how you're such a company 'fan', do you think it is
    appropriate to intimate that, without this update, we are at serious risk
    after all, there have been many times in the past, and prior to this update,
    when MS were telling us that XP was 'safe'?

    Just wouldn't want you to get into trouble thats all

    B
     
    brushes, Aug 29, 2004
    #18
  19. David Cook

    brushes Guest

    (just over 6 months of ownwership). I have all the critical updates loaded,
    i have AVG anti virus and Zonelabs Firewall.Reading your recommendation and
    all the responses have reasured me to wait a couple of months and see what
    happens. I use a dial-up modem and realise it took take weeks to download
    it all at the rate of my usage on line. I may check out the free CD-rom when
    its released. Ta. >

    I would also suggest that you try the firefox browser and thunderbird e-mail
    client both of which are far better than their embedded (foisted)
    counter-parts in windows but also, far more secure. I was quite wary of
    installing alternatives but I have been pleasantly surprised at how
    effortless the transition is and how much care was put into the import
    facilities. A seamless transition.

    I just like using a browser which doesn't have the mechanism to install
    spyware.

    B
     
    brushes, Aug 29, 2004
    #19
  20. David Cook

    jimbo Guest

    I have done this 3 times now and I am getting pi$$ed off.

    I installed SP2, Upon restart I get a error ( STOP: c0000135 {unable to
    locate component}, it says "This application failed to start because winsrv
    was not found. Re-instaling the application may fix this problem").

    Exhaustive research and several reinstalls, as long as it is SP1 I am OK,
    but the minute the update for SP2 is installed, back to the same error. It is
    ONLY after I install SP2.

    All other updates install and restart just fine. is this a typical
    "Microsoft did it again and released it before it was ready?"

    Funny thing, out of 3 laptops and 5 PC's, only (1) one PC has this problem,
    and this particular PC was just completely gone through, all programs
    installed fresh within the last 30 days.

    NO i do not have a virus, I use Norton and it is up to date.

    Seriously, what is the deal, has anyone else seen this?

    (hey "Carey") is mine totally unrelated, since it works great until the
    install of SP2?
     
    jimbo, Aug 29, 2004
    #20
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