SBS 2008 Backup - force full backup?

Discussion in 'Windows Small Business Server' started by Otto, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. Otto

    Otto Guest

    I have setup SBS 2008 backup which I set to run to a 1.5Tb USB disk.

    The 117Gb data on the server is being backed up ok with the setting to
    use 'Full Backup'. I find this this is actually designed to run as an
    incremental backup in the traditional sense - so there is only one
    master copy of the original data plus block changes.

    What I want is multiple full backups - has anyone done this using the
    backup app or via the command line? I'm sure it must be possible.
     
    Otto, Jun 9, 2009
    #1
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  2. Otto

    Otto Guest


    I was looking for someone who had run it to give multiple complete
    backups as its isn't particularly fault tolerant otherwise, and there is
    no reason that this option should be missing.

    I have a few ideas to achieve it but have not tested yet, but I'm sure
    you don't need 3rd party software to achieve a more robust backup.
     
    Otto, Jun 9, 2009
    #2
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  3. Otto

    Otto Guest


    Do you mean you cant use the standard 2008 based backup to get around
    the limitation? - I'm sure you can. As regards Exchange backup awareness
    this was updated in Exchange 2007 SP2:

    http://blogs.technet.com/kruc/archive/2009/05/22/exchange-server-2007-sp2-q3-2009.aspx

    "Exchange Volume Snapshot Backup Functionality - A new backup plug-in
    has been added to the product that will enable customers to create
    Exchange backups when a backup is invoked through the Windows Server
    2008 Backup tool. Exchange Server 2007 didn't have this capability on
    Windows Server 2008 and additional solutions were required to perform
    this task."
     
    Otto, Jun 9, 2009
    #3
  4. Otto

    Otto Guest


    No, its not out yet for plain Exchange, but its already in SBS, thats
    the point. Unless you are saying that using wbadmin in SBS specifically
    fails to backup Exchange - are you saying thats the case?
     
    Otto, Jun 9, 2009
    #4
  5. Otto

    Otto Guest


    The term 'full backup' appears to be a misnomer in 2008 - its always
    incremental other than the first time on a given volume.

    So what I'm after is multiple complete backups on a single drive. Yes I
    can rotate drives etc. and thats fine but it is more redundant by
    definition by having more complete backups on any single volume if space
    isn't an issue.

    Having say 2 drives that you rotate means you only have 2x initial full
    backups - you are assuming nothing will ever get corrupt on the base
    image and happily rely on increments forever more.

    Say I initiate a backup rotation at server installation time then the
    majority of base files never ever get updated and you hope should be
    fine maybe years later when you need a restore. I dont like those odds
    myself so want regular 'fresh' complete separate backups - specially as
    sATA/USB drives are quite large now and not expensive. Not allowing this
    on a single volume appears to be an arbitrary limitation.


    I think I can do this in a number of ways e.g. by chopping the disk into
    multiple partitions or folders and using WBADMIN to run the backup in
    various ways - just wanted to know has anyone tried.

    There was talk above of WBADMIN not covering Exchange but I don't think
    this is true (thats only in plain Server 2008).

    You could also run NTBACKUP in 2008 but it needs a bit of messing about
    with DLLs copied from 2003 and I'm not sure how complete a solution it
    is yet.
     
    Otto, Jun 10, 2009
    #5
  6. No, Exchange 2007 SP2 is not in SBS 2008 at this time but Windows 2008
    Backup is part of SBS. How much (if any) Windows Backup has been "tweaked"
    for SBS, I don't know.

    Introducing SBS 2008 Backup
    http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive/2008/11/03/introducing-sbs-2008-backup.aspx

    --
    Merv Porter [SBS-MVP]
    ============================

     
    Merv Porter [SBS-MVP], Jun 10, 2009
    #6
  7. Otto

    Otto Guest

    Yes, I know Exchange SP2 isn't in SBS, you misunderstood - its the
    backup enhancement, as in Exchange 2007 SP2, which is already in SBS.
     
    Otto, Jun 10, 2009
    #7
  8. Merv Porter [SBS-MVP], Jun 10, 2009
    #8
  9. I think you're thinking too hard ;-).

    Every backup is a full backup in terms of restore. For example, if you back
    up your server, say, every 2 hours, you can select any one of those backups
    for a full (or partial) restore.

    It works a treat.
     
    Les Connor [SBS MVP], Jun 10, 2009
    #9
  10. Agreeing with Les, and adding that you have perhaps got the wires twisted a
    little bit. I understand the desire to have copies of your user files from
    x months ago (remember that copies of the system state from 90 days + are
    less useful).

    But consider this example:

    Total capacity of the SBS = 500 GB with 250 GB actually used. External
    drive - 1 TB

    With the first backup you consume 250 GB of the external drive, and if it
    were 1 TB you could fit 4 of these (maybe) on the external drive.
    Therefore after 4 days, or 4 weeks, your drive is full. Actually, I think
    it maybe worse, as the image may be the full 500.

    With incremental block based backup you might find that there are hundreds
    of available versions of the files that are changing, depending on how many
    files actually change between backups. Because each of the "snapshots" is a
    stand alone item, if file_X changes every day it is backed up every day, you
    can restore any one of the versions until you find the one you want.

    When the drive finally fills up, the backup program moves off the oldest
    ones to make room for the newest ones. If memory serves, no file is ever
    completely removed, so long as the drive exists. So if you have only one
    copy of your last will and testament, and it never changes, it will never be
    expunged from the backup disk.

    To avoid this you would have to archive that drive as soon as it fills, but
    that would be true of the drive that had only 4 full backups on it as well.

    If the idea is that the drive might fail, this is no different if there is 1
    full plus 250 partials, or if there are 4 fulls, but if that possibility
    bothers you, get an external enclosure with RAID1 drives that can be
    swapped.

    --
    Larry Struckmeyer
    Get your SBS Health Check
    at www.sbsbpa.com


     
    Larry Struckmeyer [SBS MVP], Jun 11, 2009
    #10
  11. Otto

    Otto Guest

    Yes, I understand the way it works and it is a better mechanism than
    before in many ways, primarily because of the (forced) use of disks as
    opposed to tapes.

    But I want to choose to run a complete backup if I want without having
    to delete the existing backup on the destination volume - not a
    unreasonable request.

    This can be done for sure from a preliminary review of the way it works
    - such as divide into multiple partitions and schedule a WBADMIN script
    to run to specific one each time. Or run as a scheduled 'one time'
    backup where the whole volume isnt taken over. Need to test it.
     
    Otto, Jun 14, 2009
    #11
  12. So MS has given you a tool. Call it a hammer. Designed for setting long
    shiny pointed metal sticks into blocks of wood.

    You want to use this tool to set other kinds of long pointed shiny metal
    things, called screws.

    To do this, you will either have to use the hammer, with much fuss and not
    very good or predictable results, or purchase another tool, called a
    screwdriver, designed for those other kinds of fasteners.

    Such is life. <g>
     
    Larry Struckmeyer [SBS-MVP], Jun 14, 2009
    #12
  13. Otto

    lapwlover

    Joined:
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    sbs 2008 backup method

    for sbs server backup, i recommend to choose one reliable tool.
    Trust backup software on the market, such as todo backup ,nova, Acronis.They are more versatility software. They all can backup sbs 2008 server. Schedule backup set, incremental backup, differential backup. Personally, I recommend todo backup for price
    It also can provide fast system & files backup, disaster recovery, advanced backup scheduler and one-click to recover system to dissimilar hardware, incremental backup, and differential backup for servers, backup to tap, backup sql/exchange servers.
    You can download it trial version to check it.
     
    lapwlover, Sep 7, 2011
    #13
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