sbs 2008 premium to sbsb 2008 essential premium

Discussion in 'Windows Small Business Server' started by John, May 14, 2010.

  1. John

    John Guest

    Hi

    Once we run out of 75 license limit of sbs 2008 premium is the migration to
    sbs 2008 essential an upgrade or a reinstall of the server is required?

    Many Thanks

    Regards
     
    John, May 14, 2010
    #1
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  2. A migration can keep your AD infrastructure intact, but there is no way to
    do an in-place upgrade from SBS to a stand-alone server. You will also need
    to plan on how you will install and support the non-OS pieces that SBS
    offers such as Exchange and Sharepoint.

    -Cliff
     
    Cliff Galiher - MVP, May 14, 2010
    #2
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  3. You are correct. The three servers are installed individually, not
    simultaneously. The third server to be installed is the messaging server,
    so to migrate exchange, SBS must still be available *after* the installation
    of the third server completes. Virtualizing can, of course, keep the
    physical hardware count down, but careful considerations must be made when
    deciding to virtualize. There are trade-offs.

    -Cliff
     
    Cliff Galiher - MVP, May 14, 2010
    #3
  4. Plus I'm not at all sure I'd choose to move to EBS at this point, given that
    the product has been discontinued. A simple move off of SBS to "normal"
    Windows Server + Exchange could be done on fewer servers and with less pain,
    and would not have one looking at a potential second migration later.
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, May 14, 2010
    #4
  5. I know this is a Sales Pitch

    but this would be a great time to move to BPOS
    You'd just need 1 Server for Files
    and one for any LOB

    SharePoint and Exchange would be in the cloud
    visit www.BPOSMadeEasy.com
    or a search for bpos on the web

    Or contact me offline russgrover @ kaitka.com

    It's cheaper to have exchange in the cloud than on premises now days :(
    Russ
     
    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP], May 15, 2010
    #5
  6. Sorry, BPOS will never be my first choice. Frankly, I don't want anyone else
    with their hands in my pocket every single month or my business is dead. My
    monthly nut is quite large enough, without adding to it.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel




     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, May 15, 2010
    #6
  7. BPOS is basically RPC over HTTPS so its nothing new.

    and Because of the cost difference there will be more an more people moving
    and yes you are right Exchange on site will be dead IMO soon.
    And there is a lot of kick from IT
    But Money talks
    Financially it's too expensive to run an exchange server.. :(
    I predict in 4-5 years exchange will no longer be onsite...
    Russ

    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
    Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz
    BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com


     
    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP], May 15, 2010
    #7
  8. I'll take that bet. I think there is a looming backlash against "the cloud"
    because of reliability and privacy concerns.

    -Cliff


     
    Cliff Galiher - MVP, May 15, 2010
    #8
  9. Well Microsoft is betting 1.5Billion on it... :)

    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
    Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz
    BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com


     
    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP], May 15, 2010
    #9
  10. John

    Kerry Brown Guest

    I keep seeing this argument. Have you actually worked the numbers? It's
    almost impossible to get a price quote from the BPOS site but in one place
    they mention $10.00 per month. I have also heard $5.00 per month. Let's look
    at a site with 30 users. At $10.00 per month that is $3,600.00 per year. At
    $5.00 it's $1,800.00 per year. Most sites with 30 users will still need a
    server on site. They will need a DC and probably a file server, print
    server, and WSUS. For sure they will have a LOB app that needs a server.
    Given they already have at least one server and the associated costs of
    maintaining the hardware are you saying the actual maintenance of Exchange
    for 30 users is more than somewhere between $1,800 and $3,600 per year? Even
    if you add SharePoint in to the equation none of my clients spend anywhere
    near that on Exchange/SharePoint maintenance. Once Exchange and SharePoint
    are up and running it doesn't take a lot of time to maintain them for 30
    users. For most of my clients I doubt I spend two hours a month on
    Exchange/SharePoint. Most of their costs are server/workstation
    depreciation, LOB app maintenance, networking hardware, and workstation
    maintenance. None of that goes away with BPOS. I can think of several
    reasons for using BPOS. Lower costs is not one of them.
     
    Kerry Brown, May 15, 2010
    #10
  11. John

    Leythos Guest

    I find that maintenance of Exchange, that being what is done AFTER the
    install, amounts to about a few hours per year. Once it's setup
    properly, considering you already have to do automatic updates,
    considering your firewall already updates your anti-spam, you really
    don't have any maintenance. As a matter of fact, Exchange is the lest
    maintenance of any of the server functions of anything we deal with.
     
    Leythos, May 15, 2010
    #11
  12. Horsepucky. I buy (and configure) a server once. It's a capital expense. My
    ongoing incremental cost is nil. If I'm having a bad couple of months in the
    business (or a bad YEAR like a lot of companies have had), I can still do
    business without worrying about MS (or your favourite cloud service) cutting
    me off cause I can't pay.

    Sorry, I think you're way, way off base. Yes, there is a place for the
    cloud, but I don't see it as the cure all that you appear to.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel




     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, May 15, 2010
    #12
  13. Charlie Russel - MVP, May 15, 2010
    #13
  14. Amen to the Amen.

    For one or two users hosted exchange is a deal. For 10+ is seems to be a
    monthly charge that, projected over the life of the system exceeds the incremental
    cost of adding exchange (or some mail server) to a network.

    This is more than a math question, however, factor in "owning' your own data,
    ability to use said data when the internet is off line, and subtract the
    agro of maintaining your own mail server of whatever ilk, and imo, for an
    orginization of more than just a few users local mail wins over hosted mail.

    -
    Larry
    Please post the resolution to your
    issue so others may benefit
    -
    Get Your SBS Health Check at
    www.sbsbpa.com
     
    Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP], May 15, 2010
    #14
  15. The one place I see a plus with the cloud and e-mail is FOPE (ForeFront
    Online Protection for Exchange) or equivalent services such as
    ExchangeDefender. Here you're keeping the vast majority of the c-r-a-p off
    my server and off my bandwidth, while not inhibiting my ability to get mail
    if I suddenly can't use your service. (All it takes is a 10 second logon to
    ZoneEdit to change the MX record.) And, at least with ExchangeDefender,
    you're providing a valuable backup service in case my server is down (or
    unreachable) for somereason.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, May 15, 2010
    #15
  16. Time will tell
    Honestly I hope you are wrong
    but the people betting are the people who deal the cards
    :)
    Russ

    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
    Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz
    Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com
    BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.BPOSMadeEasy.com


     
    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP], May 15, 2010
    #16
  17. Predictable Reoccurring Costs

    Companies Want Predictable Costs
    That's why some lease Vehicles and Rent Buildings

    They don't like the UH Our server went down
    it is going to cost us xxx and so much in Labor to fix.

    You Pay for what you use, which is the cloud model.

    Ramping up and down in this changing world
    is a big Concern for many companies
    Buying new hardware software is not a good cost model.
    and having it when you don't need it is not good either.

    The Skill Level to Administrate Exchange server?
    Vs BPOS?

    I think that is an easy question
    and how much do you need to pay the people?

    IT People is an expense that people don't want to pay..
    If someone with mouse skills can create email accounts?

    I know a lot of IT people that are Scared on this, and Trust me
    There is a LOT of IT push back for a LOT of reasons
    (Their JOB)

    But Money rules in business...

    Data, Microsoft has a SLA that covers data financially.
    (So Unless you have insurance on your exchange server.)

    Also Google is the only Company that says you don't own your Data.

    The cost of Migration, Skilled Labor, Server hardware
    Software Licensing, Backups etc.

    This Ads up to more than the $5.00 or 10 for exchange.
    For 10 you get SharePoint Communicator and Live meeting.
    (Web ex is $45/user a month by it self BTW)

    When They Hook Communicator with Phone calls
    The Choices are even MORE Cost Effective.
    (Voice Mail Via Email, Call to get Messages etc etc.)

    This is the future of Cloud.
    ZERO Maintenance, Total Control.

    Coca Cola with 75,000 People last year migrated over to BPOS
    Now with the Proprietary information of Coca Cola
    (That is a Multi BILLION Dollar Company)

    Do you think they would go to BPOS if it wasn't Secure
    and Cost effective?

    I personally don't think Coca-Cola is a Company that would make a mistake
    with 75k users and their multi Billion dollar company..

    Like I said time will tell
    Right now the House is Dealing the Cards
    I'm betting with the house vs against it.
    (The House always Wins)

    Steve Ballmer Quote "We are Betting the Farm on Cloud"
    I'm jumping on...
    Each one of us has to decide where he or she wants to go.
    Yup The world is Changing Kids :(

    Russ

    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
    Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz
    Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com
    BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.BPOSMadeEasy.com
     
    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP], May 15, 2010
    #17
  18. John

    Leythos Guest

    I'm still not sure the cost savings or backup is worth it.

    As an example, I install firewalls for all businesses, no exceptions.
    Those firewall have inexpensive Anti-Spam and Anti-Virus services for
    SMTP/POP3, so the protection is there and take care of before reaching
    the server. Since you still have to have AV software on your laptop or
    server for files, that won't change anything.

    As for the backup - well, if you're using Exchange in cached mode you
    already have a backup that you can export. As for backup email service,
    assuming you already own a domain, most come with cheap email service in
    the domain name, and it should already be a Priority 20 MX record with
    your own server being a Priority 0 or 10 MX record - you should also
    have Exchange set to pull email from the backup mail location. There are
    also other methods that are very cheap.

    No, there is a cost that people have not talked about. I have a dozen
    servers here, running 24/7, have a couple generators, UPS's, etc...

    One of my real costs is the Electricity to run the UPS, Switch, Firewall
    and Server for a small shop, it amounts to about $37/mo at our local
    rates, that doesn't include the additional electric cost for the AC BTU
    load. There is also the additional cost of Business Insurance, also
    costing about $20/mo per customers server solution.

    I looked at a solution from GoDaddy for Hosted Exchange, about
    $60/month, and they still needed a file server in their office, still
    needed a UPS, still needed remote access to computers.... It's just not
    economical in the long run to use external solutions when you have a
    reasonable power/internet solution available.
     
    Leythos, May 15, 2010
    #18
  19. John

    Leythos Guest

    I don't believe it's Zero maintenance and I don't believe the users have
    total control, not for one second.

    I managed a company, 3 shifts, 70 active licenses, dozens of printers,
    16 fax lines, 5 servers, with SBS as the foundation, on 8 hours per
    month average over 3 years and did almost all of it remotely.

    It's all in how you build the solution, at least in my opinion.

    I have many clients that I've never met, never been to their locations,
    managed for years, and they have a chap they call in when I need a hand,
    once every 8-12 months, to replace a drive/PSU, and that's about the
    extent of it - all of these run 24/7, no malware, clean machines, and
    are designed as business machines with people that understand that
    workers do not have a right to internet access or personal email or
    personal devices on the company network.
     
    Leythos, May 15, 2010
    #19
  20. The world is changing...

    That's all I'm saying
    We can debate all we want

    It's up to the people who write the checks to make the decisions...

    Best wishes to all...
    Russ

    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
    Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz
    Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com
    BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.BPOSMadeEasy.com
     
    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP], May 15, 2010
    #20
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