SP1. Is this a beta release or just a bad joke ?

Discussion in 'Windows Small Business Server' started by Ray Collins, May 29, 2005.

  1. Ray Collins

    Ray Collins Guest

    On a clean build, default installation the Service Pack installs correctly.

    But God forbid somebody would have changed an option during the initial
    install.

    Here's a tip Microsoft, if you give somebody a choice they may use it !

    This install seems to have been built by an undergraduate programmer who
    only seems to know "On error resume next"

    If the install routine hits something that was an option in the product and
    it can't work out the answer then it should stop and ask.

    If it hits an error it can't handle it should stop and say so at the time!

    It is NOT ACCEPTABLE to get a message at the end to say the install was
    unsuccessful with an Ok button.

    NO IT IS NOT OK !

    Tell the person exactly what went wrong and where to find additional
    information. This stupid screen doesn't even say where the logs files can
    be found.

    Maybe if this product was beta tested with average Joes instead of the elite
    of the SBS world it may have been more user friendly (and actually worked
    more often than not).

    Wonder when the next beta release will be ?

    AND before you start flaming me ask yourself this: would you have accepted
    this for an Office Service Pack ??
     
    Ray Collins, May 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. Ray ...what did you hit as an issue?
     
    Susan Bradley, May 29, 2005
    #2
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  3. For the record the problem is that many of us was beta testing this on
    newly installed boxes and never put this on existing installs.

    I know I only tested it on an existing install at the very end because
    it was not supported to put these beta bits to then get them upgraded to
    the final bits.
     
    Susan Bradley, May 29, 2005
    #3
  4. Ray Collins

    Tony Josephs Guest

    Susan

    I have been watching the SP1 debate from a far and have now decided to order
    the Premium CD and wait until after the fall out before any installation.
    Particularly as I have a DELL server.

    But I was most disturbed to hear that some beta testing only included
    existing installs at the end of the cycle.

    How can that be acceptable? No wonder all the posts on failures and
    queries. What a mess.


    Tony
     
    Tony Josephs, May 29, 2005
    #4
  5. Mariette Knap [SBS MVP], May 29, 2005
    #5
  6. I cannot speak with what was done at Microsoft ...I'm only speaking with
    what I personaly did during the beta, so don't read more into this than
    I said. I'm sure they installed this on existing boxes many times
    inside their labs. But as can be shown, we do some wacko things out
    here. I would have never thought that someone wouldn't put Outlook on
    their SBS install for example... I just follow the wizards and thus
    that's why my production install was nearly perfect [Trend screwed me up
    but other than that]. But I as a beta tester did not put this service
    pack on my fully running SBS box at home until the very end because I
    didn't have the time to then flatten the box and redo the box with the
    final RTM product.

    As a beta tester you cannot typically put final bits on a box that has
    had a beta release.

    I'm sorry but I'm not putting my production server at risk like that.

    Would you?
     
    Susan Bradley, May 29, 2005
    #6
  7. Ray Collins

    BJ Guest

    I really have to agree with you too. What kind of nonsense is this? Give me
    a service pack that installs as a single procedure. I installed Exchange sp1
    and Server 2003 sp1 on various other machines and clients with no problems
    whatsoever. Now I have to install 4 major files and upgrades, wait at least
    4 hours and more often than not, have the install crap out at some point?
    This is quite an outrage and I will not install it until it is fixed. I'm
    amazed that the SBS community is taking this lying down. Did they beta test
    it at all and if so what happened to those testers? Pristine system or not,
    a beta test should have worked out all these bugs and should have certainly
    come in one simple install not 4. And the kicker is "Don't install 2003 SP1
    on an SBS system" and now, "install 2003 SP1 first". No, not me. I vote for
    "just a bad joke" and will not even give them credit for saying this is a
    beta release.

    Bj
     
    BJ, May 29, 2005
    #7
  8. In
    I disagree with you in this. SBS is not one big OS that does it all. It is a
    suite of several server products that require different service packs. You
    cannot install that in a single procedure. The steps to install those
    service packs and the prerequisites are very well documented and you should
    read the documentation always!

    Many MVP's have been involved in beta testing we are very pleased with the
    result. I was involved to and I am happy with the result. I hardly see any
    problems.

    You should be aware that in this newsgroup you see only people posting
    problems. Those without any problems you do not hear or see.

    --
    Mariƫtte Knap
    Microsoft SBS-MVP
    One of the Magical M&M's
    www.smallbizserver.net
    Take part in SBS forum:
    http://www.smallbizserver.net/Default.aspx?tabid=53
     
    Mariette Knap [SBS MVP], May 29, 2005
    #8
  9. Ray Collins

    JML Guest

    What was the problem with Trend?
     
    JML, May 29, 2005
    #9
  10. Made IISadmin get stuck and ISA wouldn't load without me manually
    stopping IISadmin.
     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], May 30, 2005
    #10
  11. SBS service packs have never installed as a single procedure... SBS 2000
    wasn't.

    You can skip Exchange and Sharepoint with no issues.

    The communication got screwed up on that ..we should have said 'not
    yet'... we needed the last SBS specific patch to fix back up the windows
    sp1 install... again, we've been parts before.
     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], May 30, 2005
    #11
  12. Well I'm one MVP that was doing the Beta testing and who was -NOT-
    satisfied with the final result.
     
    Henry Craven [SBS-MVP], May 30, 2005
    #12
  13. Ray Collins

    Ray Collins Guest

    I read all the doco, I built a test system and ran thru the install and it
    all worked. I got to the first real install and sharepoint and monitoring
    wouldn't start after the upgrade, I sorted it out. As usual (so it seems)
    M$ has screwed me again with a Service Pack, I quote for the work, allowing
    a reasonable bit of overhead and then get blown away when issues come up. I
    lose money NOT Microsoft, I take the flack with the customer for their crap.
    Yes they understand I didn't do it BUT I am the person they are paying to
    make sure it works.

    I had a person ring who had run the service pack themselves and got to the
    end with the completely unhelpful unsuccessful install message.
    It turns out that they didn't install Outlook. Most people I know don't
    install Outlook because they have Office OEM on their workstations (remember
    the M$ campaign "it's cheaper to buy OEM" ?

    I don't have a problem with other service packs being required as separate
    installs but I do object to options becoming mandatory e.g Outlook 2003 and
    XP SP2 client. If you just run the service pack you don't get the fancy
    screens in the mvp doc to guide you thru all the required steps they are
    only on the CD version I presume.

    I have a problem with a piece of software that will plough on regardless and
    then give you a completely useless message at the end. Even if you know
    that it created log files you have to know what all the msi entries mean to
    be able to track down what the issue was.

    I have a problem with well known issues such as the MSDE monitor appearing
    in the start-up folder making it into a production release. It's not like
    this wasn't known from the start.

    I have a problem with people saying "it's working really well only people
    with problems post here" . I have news for you, most SBS owners don't even
    know this newsgroup exists and I wouldn't mind betting they don't even know
    the Service Pack exists. There are 5132 people registered on the
    www.smallbizserver.net site, even if say 4 times that number use this
    newsgroup then that hopefully is a very small percentage of SBS owners
    worldwide.
     
    Ray Collins, May 30, 2005
    #13
  14. Ray Collins

    BJ Guest

    I can accept that it might need various service packs, but it just seems
    like the overall procedure was not well thought out. It's disturbing to see
    that an install went just fine according to the screen messages, when in
    fact, it did not . Then there is the issue of swing migration, once again
    not documented. If I can install an OS like SBS with just one procedure, why
    can't they come up with a service pack that is one procedure as well?
    I know that to be true. However, the problem posts are too voluminous and
    similar in content. This service pack was not ready to be released, IMHO,
    and I will not install it until it is fixed or re-released and documented
    correctly.

    BobbyJ
     
    BJ, May 30, 2005
    #14
  15. The Swing migration issue is not an official Microsoft procedure so
    don't expect that would be in the SBS release notes.

    It won't be re-released. And the documention is all on
    www.smallbizserver.net.

    Service packs do not get pulled.

    SBS has NEVER had service packs that are a one stop install. We've
    always had parts.
     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], May 30, 2005
    #15
  16. That MSDE monitor thing in start up isn't SBS..it's a security patch and
    because it's cosmetic only, it is what it is.

    Honestly I'm going to push for some of our SBS specific patches to be
    put on Microsoft update because it's my belief that there are many SBS
    boxes that will never see this Service pack.

    I have said many times I hate SP's in SBSland... I always have.
     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], May 30, 2005
    #16
  17. And that's why we recommend ordering the CDRoms.

    We probably need to do a screen shot version with the downloads..but I
    prefer the cdroms.

    Again it gets back to not being first.

    IMHO thus sucker is just way too big to do with downloads. You want
    cdrom media.
     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], May 30, 2005
    #17
  18. Ray Collins

    BJ Guest

    I've seen re-releases, however, as an "a" version. As for the swing
    migration, from what I understand the procedure is not unsupported. On the
    contrary, it's something Microsoft documents, albeit not in one place as
    Jeff does. So why didn't they wait a week to get that part documented and
    fixed? Then there is the Windows XP SP2 client install thing that is making
    life miserable for some. If the install will not complete successfully due
    to changed paths or anything unbeknownst to an administrator, then it should
    be specified beforehand or the install aborted with an error message that is
    explanatory.

    I've not run SBS before 2003 so I'm not qualified to comment on previous SBS
    service packs. My point is still that if I can do a complete install with
    one procedure, then why not a complete service pack the same way? And 4
    hours for an SP? That makes it a weekend thing instead of an after hours
    thing. Unacceptable. I upgraded Exchange 2003 for 3 clients during their
    lunchtime. Win 2003 server the same. On the Win server newsgroups there are
    no consistent horror stories as there are here. Something has gone horribly
    wrong with this SP and it should be fixed ASAP.

    bJ
     
    BJ, May 30, 2005
    #18
  19. You haven't been seeing the PatchManagement.org listserve. Windows 2003
    sp1 has had issues.

    You never should install service packs during a lunch hour... so I'll
    argue on that one...but yes, this is a long sucker and I can't argue on
    that one.

    BJ it's not going to be rereleased. It's my understanding the release
    notes will be updated...but this is it BJ.
     
    Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], May 30, 2005
    #19
  20. Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP], May 31, 2005
    #20
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