SQL Server Std over SBS 2003 std

Discussion in 'Windows Small Business Server' started by Charles, May 28, 2007.

  1. Charles

    Charles Guest

    We have SBS 2003 std and would liketo use the data mining facilities of SQL
    Server std, as opposed to SQL Server for Workgroups. So it appears that
    simply upgrading to SBS 2003 premium would not do the trick.

    What is the best route?
    For instance , is it possible and advisable to simply install SQL Server STD
    over SBS 2003 std? Or should we first upgrade to SBS 2003 premium and then
    upgrade SQL Server to std?

    Many thanks in advance,
    Charles
     
    Charles, May 28, 2007
    #1
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  2. To a degree, this depends on your needs and business strategy for the
    future.

    You could just install SQL Server std on the SBS Box ( that is what an
    upgrade to SBS 2003 Premium SP1 would do - the path for this is via SBS 2003
    Premium with downgrade rights )

    You could also upgrade to SBS 3002 R2 Premium with SQL Server 2005
    (Workgroup Edition )
    The analysis services in SQL 2005 are pretty amazing -
    http://www.sqlserverdatamining.com/DMCommunity/FAQ/default.aspx
    - but you'll want to install the analysis services on a separate server -
    The performance hit is pretty severe and not something you'd want to do to
    the SBS Box.

    SBS "Premium" versions come with ISA as well as SQL, which you may or may
    not want.
    Additional consideration would be as to whether you want external users to
    connect to the SQL Server, in which case they would need either Domain
    Accounts and SBS CALs ( with the premium upgrade ) or you'd buy SQL Server
    as Per Process License.

    ( hope you can pan out a bit of colour from amongst that shale )
     
    Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}, May 28, 2007
    #2
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  3. Charles

    Charles Guest

    Thanks Henry for this.

    Sorry if I sound dumb but SQL is a whole new topic for me.

    First, you seem to imply that upgrading to SBS 2002 Premium would bring SQL
    Server Std, which I don't think is the case, SBS Premuim only carries SQL
    Server Workgroup Edition -- and that one does not come with the nice Analyses
    Service that we are interested in. But perharps (probably) I am missing
    something since you also refer to "downgrade" rights which I am not sure I
    understand.

    But apart from the licensing aspect of the question, you also raise a very
    important issue: that we would need another box to run those Analysis
    Services. wow, that is a major complication for us. Just to make sure that I
    understood correctly: we would then need to install SQL Server Std on a
    separate box, that would somehow be joined to our domain, correct? Sorry to
    ask a probably very basic question but on that separate box, what operating
    system would be running ? Another SBS 2003? As I am sure you can see, I am
    quite confused about this.

    One last thing on this, could'nt we just download and install the trial SQL
    Server std on the SBS 2003 std that we have now (MS offers a 180-day trial)
    to see whether our current box can take the extra work load?

    Thanks again for your help
     
    Charles, May 28, 2007
    #3
  4. Charles

    Claus Guest

    Charles,

    What Henry is referring to is that SBS2003 Premium comes with SQL2000
    Standard. SBS2003R2 Premium comes with SQL2005 Workgroup. If you buy the R2
    upgrade with "downgrade rights" you can stick with the SQL2000. We have done
    that quite a few times because clients had applications that wouldn't run on
    SQL2005.
     
    Claus, May 28, 2007
    #4
  5. OK. Lets define a few things here.
    1st there is a Difference between SBS 2003 SP1 and SBS 2003 R2 ( which has
    upgraded components and rights )

    SBS 2003 Sp1 Premium Comes with SQL Server 2003 Standard.
    SBS 2003 R2 Premium comes with SQL Server 2005 Workgroup Edition ( this is
    the equivalent of SQL Server Standard )

    SQL Server 2005 Workgroup Edition does come with the SQL Analytical
    Functions, and BI Development Studio
    for building and debugging data integration, OLAP, data mining, and
    reporting solutions, but not the Data Warehousing, Analysis Services,
    Business Analytics, Advanced Business Analytics, Unified Dimensional Model,
    and Data Mining that come only with SQL Server 2005 Standard and Enterprise
    editions. As I take it that these are the functions that you're looking for
    I was in error saying you'd get them as part of an SBS upgrade to Premium.

    You can install the SQL Server 2005 Standard and analytical services on the
    SBS Box and if your workload is light and the System Extremely well
    provisioned it may work ok. Personally I'd be running it on a well
    provisioned Windows 2003 Member Server. CALs for server access are covered
    by the SBS CALs. Either way you'll need either a Per Processor License or
    SQL CALs etc.. for the SQL Server access.

    Without knowing how big your database is and the extent of the analysis and
    mining you intend to do, CPU and Memory issues aside, for the SQL Server
    you'd really want a different Disk structure to what you'd be running for
    SBS...but I'm sure you'll work that out as you get to know SQL Server.

    --
    Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}
     
    Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}, May 28, 2007
    #5
  6. Charles

    Charles Guest

    Thanks Henry and Claus, this is much clearer to me now.

    Just to have your opinion on the expected SQL workload as against the
    capacity of our current box: 1) capacity: SBS 2003 runs on a IntelXeon 2,80
    Gmz ; 2 Go of ram (this could easily be increased of course); system HD is 40
    Go, of which 30 Go is free; the other partition has 210 Go, of which 170 is
    free. The two partitions are on a RAID HD system.
    2) expected workload: we are a small consulting firm with only 5 users. The
    SQL server would be used chiefly for processing marketing data obtained from
    our clients -- this is where SQL server's Analysis Services come in. Now yes
    those databases can be large. We are working on one now with 500 Mo of data
    with 500,000 observations across 50 variables. Others can have serveral
    million observations.

    What do you think?
    Charles

    PS Footnote for those interested: we originally considered purchasing one of
    the industry standards in data mining, namely SAS Enterprise Miner or SPSS
    Clementine, which are both excellent. The catch is the price charged for
    these packages is simply astronomical. SAS EM for a couple of users for
    instance is over - yes - 50,000 euros. So the SQL Server Std strikes us as a
    very good deal indeed, and it is getting plenty of good reviews for the data
    mining people.
     
    Charles, May 29, 2007
    #6
  7. Wouldn't know where to start to advise you Charles.

    I suggest you speak to the folks over at microsoft.public.sqlserver.olap
    about the requirements, configuration and tuning as they'd have real world
    experience with a variety of datasizes and scenarios.
     
    Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}, May 29, 2007
    #7
  8. You may want to look at some Lightweight alternatives.
    - Powerhouse -
    - Angos -

    I've run these from laptops..
     
    Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}, May 29, 2007
    #8
  9. SQL Server 2005 Analysis Services performance has improved greatly compared
    to its SQL Server 2000 counterpart. The concept of proactive caching
    contributes to this performance increase. The nice thing about SQL Server
    2005 (even on a workgroup edition) is that it can provide you with a
    cost-effective end-to-end business intelligence solution based on SQL Server
    2005 - from extract-transform-load (ETL) using SQL Server 2005 Integration
    Services to building Analysis Services cubes with data mining features and
    finally reporting using SQL Server Reporting Services. Cube processing for
    Analysis Services should be scheduled during off-peak hours as this requires
    a lot of CPU resources. Once processed, they can be accessed using the
    Business Intelligence Development Studio - a subset of Visual Studio which
    even an information worker can use to create projects for analysis. Of
    course, performance and workload will still depend on a lot of factors -
    DBMS design, ETL approach, data mart/data warehouse design, cube design and
    the volume of data.

    bass_player
    MCP MCDBA MCAD MCSD MCT MCTS: SQL Server 2005 MCITP:DBA
     
    bass_player [SBS-MVP], May 29, 2007
    #9
  10. Charles

    Charles Guest

    Thanks Bass_player very informative. Now could clarify what you said about
    SQL Server workgroup edition? You seem to imply that that version of SQL also
    has some data mining features, which I though were only to be found on the
    Standard and Enterprise editions of SQL Server?
     
    Charles, May 29, 2007
    #10
  11. Charles

    bass_player Guest

    I overlooked the features table. Workgroup Edition only has SQL Analytical
    functions. Analysis Services and Data Mining are available from Standard
    edition and higher.

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/features/compare-features.mspx
    --
    MCP MCDBA MCAD MCSD MCT MCTS MCITP:DBA
    "Helping people grow and develop their full potential as God has plan for
    them"
     
    bass_player, May 31, 2007
    #11
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