Suggested Security

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Security' started by BChat, Jan 13, 2007.

  1. BChat

    BChat Guest

    I will be purchasing Vista Ultimate Full Edition at the end of the month. I
    plan to use AVG Free for AV protection (I have for years with XP). I also
    run Spybot S&D, AdAware, Spywareblaster, and SuperAntispyware. Which, if
    any, are suggested for, or needed with Vista. I understand the Vista
    Firewall is fine and there is no need for anything else. TIA
    BChat
     
    BChat, Jan 13, 2007
    #1
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  2. BChat

    Malke Guest

    I would start out with the antivirus (I'm using Avast! on Vista but if you
    prefer AVG and it works, stick with it) and the built-in Windows Defender
    and the built-in Windows Firewall.

    At this point because Vista is so new, we aren't seeing much about malware
    attacking it in the wild. I would imagine that practicing "Safe Hex" will
    still be important in any case:

    Safe Hex:

    http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=27971 - So How Did I Get
    Infected Anyway?
    http://www.getsafeonline.org/
    http://wiki.castlecops.com/Malware_Removal_and_Prevention:_Introduction
    http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html
    http://www.aumha.org/a/parasite.htm - The Parasite Fight
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/harrywaldron/archive/2006/02/05/82584.aspx - MVP
    Harry Waldron - The Family PC - How to stay safe on the Internet

    Malke
     
    Malke, Jan 13, 2007
    #2
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  3. BChat

    BChat Guest

    Thanks Malke - I'll read the suggest articles
    BChat

    I would start out with the antivirus (I'm using Avast! on Vista but if you
    prefer AVG and it works, stick with it) and the built-in Windows Defender
    and the built-in Windows Firewall.

    At this point because Vista is so new, we aren't seeing much about malware
    attacking it in the wild. I would imagine that practicing "Safe Hex" will
    still be important in any case:

    Safe Hex:

    http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=27971 - So How Did I Get
    Infected Anyway?
    http://www.getsafeonline.org/
    http://wiki.castlecops.com/Malware_Removal_and_Prevention:_Introduction
    http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html
    http://www.aumha.org/a/parasite.htm - The Parasite Fight
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/harrywaldron/archive/2006/02/05/82584.aspx - MVP
    Harry Waldron - The Family PC - How to stay safe on the Internet

    Malke
     
    BChat, Jan 13, 2007
    #3
  4. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    BChat,

    Commonly, when using “free†software you not only received what you pay for,
    you receive not-desired malware, specifically Trackers, and placed on a broad
    array of email list.

    Since Vista and BitLocker is the Rolls Royce of an OS, and IE 7 is the Rolls
    Royce of Browsers, consider doing what so many others have safely done; give
    Vista a chance for demonstrating it’s incredible inherent Security !!

    Yes, I know old habits die hard, but using Vista solo (for Security) is an
    experience that has never previously existed, historically speaking.

    For your benefit and peace of mind, research why and how Vista automatically
    scans and wipes the HDD for self-removing malware and other Threats
    preventing any *not desired* modifications to Vista’s OS.
     
    FireWall2, Jan 13, 2007
    #4
  5. BChat

    BChat Guest

    Jesper,

    Thanks for the reply. I agree with several of your points - use AV
    software - keep everything updated/patched - I've used FF for a long time,
    not too happy w/2.0 - I've had no issue with IE7 in XP - I've used OE for
    email/news groups forever, no complaints - I will use Vista's mail reader
    when installed (had experience with it in Beta - works fine for me).

    I plan to dual boot to current XP Home SP2 and Vista Ultimate Full Edition -
    separate drives. I currently use Acronis True Image 10 to back up my
    complete XP disk, and will do likewise w/Vista. This gives me a very nice
    safety net.

    Thank you again for your reply. I'll just keep on doing what I've been
    doing - no problems yet :)
    BChat

    I'm not at all convinced I buy all the suggestions of Safe-Hex wholesale.

    1. Use AV software - Yep, for most computers, that is generally a good idea.
    I see no reason to put it on most servers, but that is fairly obvious

    2. Patch your stuff - Absolutely essential. In Vista, click the "Keep my
    computer up to date by automatically installing security updates" button and
    you'll be fine on the OS side. Applications are FAR more troublesome. The
    more you add, the harder it is to keep them patched. How many people here
    have installed the patch for the extremely critical vuln in Adobe Acrobat
    that was patched this week? How many people routinely ensure that iTunes is
    reinstalled to protect it against the equally critical vulnerabilities it
    has
    had?

    3. Consider using alternative web browsers and e-mail software - On Vista
    you would expose yourself far MORE today if you used an alternative web
    browser. IE runs with extremely low privileges on Vista. Firefox, Opera, and
    crew, do not; at least not yet. All of them have had their fair share of
    vulns too. The brand new Firefox 2.x has had two so far, one of which is
    pretty serious. Version 1.x has at least 39. IE 7, by contrast, have had
    three, but they are all low impact issues. The alternative browsers are just
    as targeted as IE is today. Keep in mind too that if you compare vuln counts
    in browsers, The folks keeping track tend to skew the results against MS.
    For
    instance, the recent VML vulnerability is tagged against IE 7, but has
    nothing to do with IE 7, and it does not impact Vista at all. Mail readers
    are a similar situation. There have been vulns in all the mail readers,
    probably about the same number in recent years. Consider which one does what
    you want, and how you are going to keep it update. A mail reader that has a
    few less vulns, but that is never updated is far more exposed than one with
    more vulns but that keeps itself patched.

    4. Be cautious with e-mail attachments and downloading files - If you follow
    this advice the majority of the security problem actually goes away. I have
    not had an AV program alarm for a virus on my computer since 1990 (and that
    one was on a Macintosh). If you don't expose yourself to undue risk, you
    will
    have far fewer problems, no matter what programs you use.

    5. Stop using DOCs - This is just plain silly. First, there is no way anyone
    can ensure that a document is in RTF versus DOC format, regardless of the
    extension. Word ignores the extension on the document. It is used only by
    the
    OS to decide which app opens the document, and even there it is ignored in
    some circumstances. Second, DOC files have a number of features you cannot
    get in RTF, such as versioning and revision tracking, and better control
    over
    your documents. Third, macro security in Word is really not the problem
    today
    that it once was. Yes, in Word 4.0, 95, and 97, macro security was an issue.
    Those programs, designed in the early 1990s, were designed on the assumption
    that nobody would ever want to harm you. If you still use those, and are
    subject to their problems, you need to upgrade. The problem in Word today is
    in file parsers, including the built-in one. Word, and Excel and PowerPoint,
    are horribly complicated file formats and even Microsoft has had a very hard
    time getting them right. I have seen people advocate using compatible
    third-party programs instead. If Microsoft, which wrote the spec for the
    file
    format, cannot get the parser right, what is the likelihood that a third
    party, which does not have access to the spec, can do it? Finally, if you
    simply practice a bit more caution before opening documents sent to you a
    lot
    of the security problems go away. If someone you know sends you an
    unsolicited Word doc, or PowerPoint presentation, ask if they meant to send
    it to you. If they sent you a PPS PowerPoint Show because "this is just so
    hilarious, you gotta see it" delete the entire e-mail message without
    opening
    it. If you don't invite the attackers, they'll have a much harder time
    getting in.

    6. Configure your operating system properly - Personally, I want to see
    extensions, but configuring the OS to show extensions does not actually mean
    you will see all of them, nor that they are actually meaningful. Large
    portions of the OS, including IE, and add-on applications, such as Word,
    will
    infer file types based on content, not file extensions.
    The remaining instructions in this section are quite reasonable, although if
    you simply let the built-in firewall do its job, you have pretty much
    blocked
    network traffic anyway.

    7. Preserving your privacy - The first advice, about never using the
    "unsubscribe" feature is sage.
    The second advice, about not using the stored usernames and passwords, is
    not. If this is your computer, and you practice safe computing, it is
    generally quite safe to store your username and password for web sites. The
    biggest problem with passwords is not the passwords, it is the people that
    use them, and the fact that human beings suck at remembering passwords. If
    we
    used technologies such as the one the Chinese invented about 3000 years ago:
    paper, to store our passwords we would have a much better chance of
    remembering them. That means we could use different passwords for different
    things, which is all general goodness.
    The rest of the advice in 7 is quite wise.

    8. Misc. - This is a bit odd. backing up is good. Using the Windows Firewall
    in Vista is good. Changing the boot sequence makes very little sense and I
    fail to see what it actually does. Multiple extensions have been used, but I
    haven't seen any for a while.

    9. If you get hit - It is quite true that users often do more damage than
    the virus. In fact, many users do more damage trying to protect themselves
    than the attack would. I've seen networks of tens of thousands of computers
    turn into tens of thousands of piles of electronics, unusable for anything
    other than boat anchors, because some "security expert" advised that they
    make a particular configuration change to protect themselves against a
    threat
    that said "security expert" was not able to articulate. Do not try to block
    nebulous threats that you cannot justify. Risk should be considered as the
    probability of a threat, multiplied by the damage caused by that threat
    *minus* the cost of the mitigation *minus* the probability of side-effects
    of
    the mitigation multiplied by the cost of those side-effects. Do not
    disregard
    what the mitigation costs you.
    One thing worth keeping in mind, though, is that if your computer does
    actually get infected, you may be able to successfully clean that infection.
    However, you can never guarantee that all traces of the attack are gone. One
    attack often invites another. This is particularly true of spyware. The only
    clean system is one that has not been attacked.
     
    BChat, Jan 13, 2007
    #5
  6. Follow your advice and get caught when a virus written for Vista shows up.
    You still assume Bit Locker is as good as a firewall although many experts
    with far more knowledge than you told and proved otherwise.
    Your own inability to understand the facts does mot make for safe computing
    for others.

    No where is there a reputable source suggesting running Vista without
    antivirus, certainly not Microsoft..
    What does that say about your suggestion to "Accept Vista as it is, or,
    Abandon Vista"
    I would rather protect the computer and abandon the malware.
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Jan 13, 2007
    #6
  7. BChat

    BChat Guest

    Firewall,

    Are you suggesting just using an AV program and let Vista do the rest? I am
    old, my habits are
    almost ''un-killable" ;-) - but I am willing to listen to reason. I'll have
    BitLocker with the Ultimate version,
    and am willing to give it a try. Now all I have to do is research how to set
    it up etc. Thank You

    BChat

    BChat,

    Commonly, when using "free" software you not only received what you pay for,
    you receive not-desired malware, specifically Trackers, and placed on a
    broad
    array of email list.

    Since Vista and BitLocker is the Rolls Royce of an OS, and IE 7 is the Rolls
    Royce of Browsers, consider doing what so many others have safely done; give
    Vista a chance for demonstrating it's incredible inherent Security !!

    Yes, I know old habits die hard, but using Vista solo (for Security) is an
    experience that has never previously existed, historically speaking.

    For your benefit and peace of mind, research why and how Vista automatically
    scans and wipes the HDD for self-removing malware and other Threats
    preventing any *not desired* modifications to Vista's OS.
     
    BChat, Jan 13, 2007
    #7
  8. BChat

    Paul Adare Guest

    microsoft.public.windows.vista.security news group, BChat
    You'd do well just to ignore any advice posted here by
    Firewall2. He/she really doesn't understand any of the
    technologies and his/her advice is predicated on a complete lack
    of understanding.
     
    Paul Adare, Jan 13, 2007
    #8
  9. He is suggesting running Vista "Accept Vista as it is, or, Abandon Vista",
    no anti virus.
    No reputable source in or out of Microsoft suggests this is a good idea,
    Firewall is all alone with this bad advice.
    In previous posts, Firewall argued at length with experts and he still
    believes Bit Locker is a firewall although there is nothing to support that
    myth.

    Use caution when following advice from Firewall.
    Do so at your own risk.
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Jan 13, 2007
    #9
  10. BChat

    BChat Guest

    Thanks Paul,

    All comments appreciated, considered, and acknowledged
    BChat


    microsoft.public.windows.vista.security news group, BChat
    You'd do well just to ignore any advice posted here by
    Firewall2. He/she really doesn't understand any of the
    technologies and his/her advice is predicated on a complete lack
    of understanding.
     
    BChat, Jan 13, 2007
    #10
  11. BChat

    Robert Moir Guest

    You know, you pulled me up the other day for being unfair about the Windows
    firewall. You've been equally unfair about many reputable providers of free
    software right here.
    Well no, but then that would be because Vista hasn't existed before.

    I'm not sure what utility you think Bitlocker has in securing a computer
    against malware infection, but Vista's inherent security abilities are much
    improved, yes, but even if you trust the built in security tools (firewall,
    Defender) you still need a virus scanner of some kind.
    I don't wish to be rude, but assuming I've understood the above paragraph,
    your knowledge of how malware behaves is far from complete.
     
    Robert Moir, Jan 13, 2007
    #11
  12. BChat

    BChat Guest

    Jupiter,

    There's a ton of things I don't know and two pounds of things I do know. I
    always try to base what I don't know on what I do know to see if there is
    any "even semi-logical" connection. If not, I am very hesitant to jump in
    without further research. When that fails - I have my frequently made trusty
    pre "what-the-hell-did-I-do-that-for?" backups.
    BChat


    He is suggesting running Vista "Accept Vista as it is, or, Abandon Vista",
    no anti virus.
    No reputable source in or out of Microsoft suggests this is a good idea,
    Firewall is all alone with this bad advice.
    In previous posts, Firewall argued at length with experts and he still
    believes Bit Locker is a firewall although there is nothing to support that
    myth.

    Use caution when following advice from Firewall.
    Do so at your own risk.
     
    BChat, Jan 13, 2007
    #12
  13. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    Jupiter,

    Please don’t assign blame toward me for your lack of understanding regarding
    Vista and BitLocker’s inherent Ultimate Security, please.

    Instead, consult Mike Nash and Ben Fathi, each Microsoft Corporate Vice
    Presidents for Security and Technology Unit.

    Also, consult Austin Wilson Microsoft Director Windows Client Product
    Management.

    Also, consult Microsoft’s BitLocker Team, too many names for listing.

    Just because you have not learned what I have learned from Microsoft's
    Experts, and more than a year personally evaluating Vista and BitLockers
    Security, does not provide you the license for criticizing and expressing
    disapproval of my research and knowledge !

    --
    Firewall

    Disclaimer:
    Accept Vista as it is, or, Abandon Vista
     
    FireWall2, Jan 14, 2007
    #13
  14. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    Robert,

    Please don’t assign blame toward me for your lack of understanding regarding
    Vista and BitLocker’s inherent Ultimate Security, please.

    Instead, consult Mike Nash and Ben Fathi, each Microsoft Corporate Vice
    Presidents for Security and Technology Unit.

    Also, consult Austin Wilson Microsoft Director Windows Client Product
    Management.

    Also, consult Microsoft’s BitLocker Team, too many names for listing.

    Just because you have not learned what I have learned from Microsoft's
    Experts, and more than a year personally evaluating Vista and BitLockers
    Security, does not provide you the license for criticizing and expressing
    disapproval of my research and knowledge !
     
    FireWall2, Jan 14, 2007
    #14
  15. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    Paul,

    Please don’t assign blame toward me for your lack of understanding regarding
    Vista and BitLocker’s inherent Ultimate Security, please.

    Instead, consult Mike Nash and Ben Fathi, each Microsoft Corporate Vice
    Presidents for Security and Technology Unit.

    Also, consult Austin Wilson Microsoft Director Windows Client Product
    Management.

    Also, consult Microsoft’s BitLocker Team, too many names for listing.

    Just because you have not learned what I have learned from Microsoft's
    Experts, and more than a year personally evaluating Vista and BitLockers
    Security, does not provide you the license for criticizing and expressing
    disapproval of my research and knowledge !
     
    FireWall2, Jan 14, 2007
    #15
  16. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    BChat,

    My knowledge is provided by Microsoft. The below, just a very few people
    that I have learned from compounded with personally evaluating Vista and
    BitLocker.

    The decision for using third party A/V is yours for the making.
    Comprehending Vista and BitLocker's inherent Ultimate Security is a small
    task for you personally learning !!

    Instead, consult Mike Nash and Ben Fathi, each Microsoft Corporate Vice
    Presidents for Security and Technology Unit.

    Also, consult Austin Wilson Microsoft Director Windows Client Product
    Management.

    Also, consult Microsoft’s BitLocker Team, too many names for listing.

    Just because you have not learned what I have learned from Microsoft's
    Experts, and more than a year personally evaluating Vista and BitLockers
    Security, does not provide you the license for criticizing and expressing
    disapproval of my research and knowledge !
     
    FireWall2, Jan 14, 2007
    #16
  17. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    Paul,

    Also, please consult Vista’s Tech Support via email or telephone. Reluctant
    for Posting the telephone number and email address since officially they do
    not open until February.
     
    FireWall2, Jan 14, 2007
    #17
  18. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    Jupiter,

    Also, please consult Vista’s Tech Support via email or telephone. Reluctant
    for Posting the telephone number and email address since officially they do
    not open until February.
    --
    Firewall

    Disclaimer:
    Accept Vista as it is, or, Abandon Vista
     
    FireWall2, Jan 14, 2007
    #18
  19. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    Robert,

    Also, please consult Vista’s Tech Support via email or telephone. Reluctant
    for Posting the telephone number and email address since officially they do
    not open until February.
     
    FireWall2, Jan 14, 2007
    #19
  20. BChat

    FireWall2 Guest

    Jupiter,

    Visited your provided Web Sites, I swear your photo is remindful of myself.

    Attempted to email you from your Web Sites, since the provided emial
    function does not work, difficult for achieving.

    If you would like the telephone and email address for Vista Tech Support,
    let me know, but will not provide the information via a Forum Post.
    --
    Firewall

    Disclaimer:
    Accept Vista as it is, or, Abandon Vista
     
    FireWall2, Jan 14, 2007
    #20
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