the real reason behind why vista was made like it is

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by John Jay Smith, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. People in here still deny the bloat of vista, the slow speed and crappy GUI.
    Sorry guys, either you have extremely fast machines, or ... I wont say it!

    However there is a hidden reason for the way vista was made. It has to do
    with economics.

    You cant use the same computer for too long. In the past (up till a couple
    of years ago) after 6 months or even 1 year your computer was outdated and
    old... but after XP, and because of the thermal roof the CPUs hit with
    increasing the Mhz, the computer industry could not recycle its customers so
    fast.... it was
    clear that people that had a computer 2 or 3 or even 4 years old could
    still use it very well with xp. This is
    why I think MS was pressured by the hardware makers (because they in turn
    preinstall windows on the
    machines) to bloat vista up as much as possible. I think this extreme bloat
    is done on purpose.... to
    artificially force people to renew their computers. MS bloated with no real
    reason.. I am surprised why people
    cant see that simple fact.... the needs of the OS are far more than what
    would be needed for the new
    features added.

    If the thermal problem did not exist the GHz would have increased
    exponentially in the time XP existed, to 4, 8, 16, and 32 GHz.. just as the
    speeds doubled in the
    previous years..
    but its not possible because higher frequencies make more heat.. and the
    cpus would fry. It has to do with technology and physics.

    So the plan was to make a new OS that would push all the computer industry
    forward to sell. Yes its about money of course!
    And this happened after they were able to mass produce multicore CPUs... the
    solution to the thermal problem with increasing the MHZ (or Ghz). You see
    with more cores you can have better cpu power but the heat does not increase
    so much as it would if you increased the ghz...At that same point when dual
    and now 4 cores are emerging, vista comes out bloated needs and with glass
    effects, demanding new computers.

    Ati and nvidia wanted in on the game.. MS probably made agreements with them
    too, to make the new version of windows look good only if you had
    powerful new GPUs. Its not by mistake that ATI and Nvidia wont release its
    driver code so open source OS like linux can make drivers...
    Because thats what MS wants in return from ati and nvidia! Make the users
    need windows because with linux the drivers are not good enough,
    and those os look crappy!

    So for the people in here who claim vista is not bloated and slow.. they are
    delusional... of course it is like this by design, because you cant hold on
    to your computer for too long. You see the market must increase in numbers
    of users, but a gigantic part of the market is people who change their
    computer..
    but with XP around for so long, and the thermal problem, the market was not
    selling as much as they wanted it to.

    But pay attention to what I will say now. I do not think this is bad!
    Although more people will be forced to change computers and they will
    put their hands in there pockets deeper... the result will be that a new
    generation of far more powerful computers will emerge.
    Some will have 12, 24 or even hundreds of cores in the cpu. New kinds of
    huge ram and permanent memories that will replace hard disks will emerge.

    This would not be possible if we had a OS that would be extremely well
    designed and not bloated! lol
    Of course this is not new.. this strategy has been used by Microsoft since
    day one, and this is why we have so powerful computers now at so low a
    price...
    but with vista the change was more apparent, striking I would say, because
    of the time lag between releases and the stall the chip industry had to get
    around the thermal problem.

    So please... understand the underlying things going on.... and at last agree
    with me that vista is bloated and slow.... Because it is for a reason!
     
    John Jay Smith, Oct 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. John Jay Smith

    Bill Frisbee Guest

    I see no more "bloat", than an install of Linux or MacOS X with the same
    feature set that Vista currently supplies.
    My Vista RC2 install runs World of Warcraft, IL-2 Sturmovik, BF-2 and a
    bunch of other games just as fast (and in the case of WOW and IL-2 FASTER)
    than XP SP2 did.

    My hardware isn't new, in fact its almost 2 years old (Pentium 4 3.0 GHz,
    2.0 GB of ram, 2x 80 GB SATA hard drives, ATI X1600 video 256mb and a DVD
    burner).

    Vista, without AeroGlass, runs fine on my Pentium 4 2.6 GHz with a mere 512
    MB of ram and an ancient AGP ATI 9600 card...

    A COMPLETE install of Vista Ultimate, Office 2007, all but WoW and my music
    take up 10.5 GB (my music would double that number).

    The same installs under XP came out to 9.2 GB.

    Running MacOS X 10.4.x the number comes out to about 12.7 GB, and that
    doesn't include my flight sims because MacOS X doesn't support them.

    PS: Both ATI and Nvidia offer full Linux drivers, seeing how you are a wee
    delusional, I will supply the links for you:

    ATI:
    https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=300
    mind you, ATI supplies drivers for Linux for both x86 and x64 flavors. The
    last reports from the field show these drivers to be quite good.

    NVidia: http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html I can't much speak for the
    Nvidia stuff as I don't use their cards.

    Oh, one last thing Vista STILL is not a released product yet. Thus there is
    STILL extra code in it that hasn't been removed for programming interfaces,
    timings and the like.


    Bill F.
     
    Bill Frisbee, Oct 8, 2006
    #2
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  3. John Jay Smith

    Obialor Guest

    Your arguments are very convincing and I believe you. I saw the point with
    the graphic card requirement for Vista but I did not imagine the scale of the
    economics is pervasive.

    Obi
     
    Obialor, Oct 8, 2006
    #3
  4. "This is why I think MS was pressured by the hardware..."
    Please post the source or is this just another opinion of yours?
    That same false reasoning could apply to any updated operating system.
    To isolate it to only Windows XP ignores a lot of other facts.

    Very few computers have become outdated in the past because of Windows and
    Vista has not changed that.
    If a computer is "outdated" it is because the needs of the user have
    changed.
    The hardware and software manufacturers continue to make products that
    demand more.
    What have the hardware and software manufacturers said when you asked them?
    Users continue to demand more of their hardware and software.
    Those that don't continue to successfully use older computers almost
    indefinitely.

    "Its not by mistake that ATI and Nvidia wont release its..."
    Please post the source since it seems you post this as fact.

    The "plan" as you put it ignores other factors that played a part in most
    software and OS changes when a new version is released.

    "Although more people will be forced to change computers..."
    Really?
    By whom?
    No one is forced to change or upgrade computers.
    That has never been true, at least not by the hardware or software
    manufacturers.
    But for some reason some critics need to make others believe that myth.
    That myth is probably older than you.

    "they are delusional"
    There you go again, labelling those that disagree with you.
    You seem to be incapable of functioning without such comments.
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Oct 8, 2006
    #4
  5. John Jay Smith

    retired fire Guest

    I too agree that the bloat of Vista will cause upgrades in memory, gpu's, and
    even new systems being sold....The cost to purchase these AND the cost of
    Vista OS cannot be justified as there are just not that much improvement, nor
    many new features that make Vista preferred over XP.... One thing that needs
    to happened is for MS to produce software that is secure.... There has never
    been a "secure" OS, and as consumers, we deserve secure software... Tired of
    hearing about identity theft......
     
    retired fire, Oct 8, 2006
    #5
  6. John Jay Smith

    Kevin Young Guest

    Funny thing is that the auto industry and many other industries come out
    with brand new models every year but you can still use a horse drawn buggy
    if you care to. Similarly no one is forcing us to upgrade to Vista, you can
    continue to use XP or W98, etc.
     
    Kevin Young, Oct 8, 2006
    #6
  7. John Jay Smith

    Pete Guest

    I agree here.

    I have a PIV 2.6Ghz w/ HT, 1 GB PC3200 ram, 80 GB HD, x1300 vid card,
    and Vista runs very smooth on it.

    In fact I use it as my every day operating system.

    Possibly I am one of the lucky folks, but I have had zero issues
    upgrading thus far other than the usual applications that fail to run
    like Nero and such. Other than that, Vista has been pretty good.

    Pete
     
    Pete, Oct 8, 2006
    #7
  8. John Jay Smith

    Bill Frisbee Guest

    The requirements for Vista are as follows:

    A Windows Vista Capable PC includes at least:
    A modern processor (at least 800MHz)
    512 MB of system memory.
    A graphics processor that is DirectX 9 capable

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx


    Last I checked I could get all three for under $125 COMBINED.


    Bill F.
     
    Bill Frisbee, Oct 8, 2006
    #8
  9. John Jay Smith

    Bill Frisbee Guest

    Bill Frisbee, Oct 8, 2006
    #9
  10. John Jay Smith

    Bill Frisbee Guest

    Pete,

    I guess we must have some type of magic wand... *Grin*


    Bill F.
     
    Bill Frisbee, Oct 8, 2006
    #10
  11. John Jay Smith

    Frank Guest

    Well dud...! You talk like you just realized wheels are round.
    Can you say "capitalism". Good, now try "free enterprise". Great, now
    say, "the land of opportunity".
    Very good! Now repeat all of that each and every morning on your way to
    to work to make MONEY!!!
    Frank
     
    Frank, Oct 8, 2006
    #11
  12. John Jay Smith

    I.P. Nichols Guest

    For what it's worth, I'm running RC2 on a 4yr old machine with a P3-800MHz
    CPU, 512 MB memory and a $50 ATI clone video card with 128MB.

    I dual boot with XP and while it's subjective, I think Vista may have a
    slight response edge over XP. And I did turn on AERO that's defaulted to off
    by RC2 for machines with this limited capability.
     
    I.P. Nichols, Oct 8, 2006
    #12
  13. John Jay Smith

    BillD Guest

    Ok now I know you've never tried the RC1/RC2 builds.
     
    BillD, Oct 8, 2006
    #13
  14. John Jay Smith

    Mamamegs Guest

    Kevin Young explained :
    What's 'forcing' in the first place? One could also say that MS is
    making use of new technologies with Vista. What use is the latest
    hardware if you haven't got an OS to take advantage of it?
    If you can, you should!

    --
    Mamamegs.

    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
    (Adam Savage)

    Nederlandse nieuwsgroep voor Vista
    alt.nl.os.windows.vista

     
    Mamamegs, Oct 8, 2006
    #14
  15. John Jay Smith

    Doug Guest

    I think that what drives the constant improvements in all aspects of the
    hardware business, CPUs, Memory, Hard Drives and especially Video Cards are
    the games. I think if the manufacturers had to rely on Microsoft OS to drive
    their business, they would soon be out of. By the way, I am not a gamer but
    I have what would be called a high end system and it's because of Photoshop,
    anyone who thinks it's because of the OS has extremely slow, old machines,
    or ..... I won't say it. I'm currently using RC2 and I like it.

    Doug
     
    Doug, Oct 8, 2006
    #15
  16. Put your tin-foil hat back on, and go back into your bomb shelter...
     
    Mark Gillespie, Oct 8, 2006
    #16
  17. John Jay Smith

    retired fire Guest

    Can MS "boast" that Vista is a "secure" OS?????? I think not.....Vista is
    just XP with a new face.....Remember ME,,,,,,
     
    retired fire, Oct 8, 2006
    #17
  18. John Jay Smith

    MICHAEL Guest

    "Vista Capable PC includes at least"

    There should be another recommendation titled:
    "For an enjoyable Vista PC experience, you need"

    I also remember the "requirements" for XP.
    That was a joke, too.

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/upgrading/sysreqs.mspx
    Windows XP Professional System Requirements

    PC with 300 megahertz or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233 MHz minimum required
    (single or dual processor system);* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, or AMD K6/Athlon/Duron
    family, or compatible processor recommended.

    128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance
    and some features)

    1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space

    Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher-resolution video adapter and monitor

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314865

    The minimum hardware requirements for Windows XP Home Edition are:

    Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster (300 MHz is recommended)

    • At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (128 MB is recommended)
    • At least 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk
    • CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive
    • Keyboard and a Microsoft Mouse or some other compatible pointing device
    • Video adapter and monitor with Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher resolution
    • Sound card
    • Speakers or headphones
     
    MICHAEL, Oct 8, 2006
    #18
  19. I have installed as an experiment XP on a Pentium 133 with 64 mb ram

    The guy who said he is "running" vista on a 800 MHz computer should be
    tarred and feathered for
    his lies....

    that computer will never RUN, it will crawl at best
     
    John Jay Smith, Oct 8, 2006
    #19
  20. Its funny that MS did not learn from the Me fiasco.. and they are going
    ahead and doing it all again
    with vista!
     
    John Jay Smith, Oct 8, 2006
    #20
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