Two Routers

Discussion in 'Server Networking' started by Patrick Whittle, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. Do you know what a second router will do when plugged in? My main router
    got
    192.168.0.1
    and I thought by plugging in a second router, it would get assigned:
    192.168.1.1
     
    Patrick Whittle, Oct 31, 2009
    #1
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  2. Patrick Whittle

    Bill Grant Guest

    Where did you think that it would "get" this IP from?

    If you are talking about an ADSL modem/router, the private IP address is
    pre-configured, and you may or may not be able to change it. In any case, a
    machine will only use it if it is in the same IP subnet as the router IP.
     
    Bill Grant, Oct 31, 2009
    #2
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  3. Patrick Whittle

    Bill Grant Guest

    On re-reading it, I see that the last sentence is not really clear. It
    should read " In any case, a machine will only use this router if it is in
    the same IP subnet as the router's IP address."
     
    Bill Grant, Oct 31, 2009
    #3
  4. Patrick Whittle

    Jim Guest

    Your first router "got" 192.168.0.1 because that is the default.
    The second router will "get" and IP address from the pool of LAN addreses
    for the first router. If your intent is to create a LAN which contains all
    of the computers connected to both routers, this scheme is not correct.

    Instead, you convert the second router to a switch as described in your
    router manual.

    Jim
     
    Jim, Nov 1, 2009
    #4

  5. Patrick,

    If you are adding a router to your internal network, possibly to add an
    additional subnet at your location, it must be MANUALLY configured. Do not
    rely on the premise that simply plugging it in and expecting it to work. It
    must be assigned a manual configuration based on the design that you have
    set on paper PRIOR to plugging it in.

    This is assuming you will not be using the NAT feature, and that you are
    using it as a true router, and that you will need to set static routes on
    the edge or any leading router to know of how to get to the subnet behind
    the new router.

    Here is an example of a routed network.

    Static Route Example
    http://www.fekay.com/supportblogs/StaticRoutingExample.jpg


    --
    Ace

    This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
    confers no rights.

    Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum for collaboration benefit among
    responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your resolution.

    Ace Fekay, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE & MCSA
    2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003
    Microsoft Certified Trainer

    For urgent issues, please contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please check
    http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.
     
    Ace Fekay [MCT], Nov 1, 2009
    #5

  6. As you can see by the replys,...there is confusion here.

    Are these "real" routers meant to route IP# segments on a LAN?

    ....or are they cheap "home-user-NAT-firewalls" that are falsely called
    routers in retail stores?

    --
    Phillip Windell

    The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Nov 2, 2009
    #6

  7. I believe they are off the shelf, retail store bought Netgears or Linksys
    units. They are not true routers such as a Cisco 2621, or Cisco ASA, PIX,
    etc.

    Ace
     
    Ace Fekay [MCT], Nov 2, 2009
    #7
  8. Very good point. I worked for a large international corporation in the
    ninties up until 2003, and as soon as I saw home routers becoming popular, I
    baulked at the idea of choice word 'router' that marketers decided to use.

    My main router is a D-Link DIR-825 wireless, and I am trying to setup a
    second segment with a D-Link DI624. My Active Directory had no problem
    seeing the router with address: 10.14.208.0/20
    ....but I lost what I initially had in Active Direcrtory Sites & Services.
    The subnet still exists in AD, but I can no-longer get to the DI624 router.

    http://www.dlink.ca/products/?pid=681
    http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=6
     
    Patrick Whittle, Nov 2, 2009
    #8
  9. Same here :)
    You can't use it to create a new LAN segment because it is not a "real"
    router. What you are trying to do is like trying to create a new segment
    with an over-simplified NAT Firewall,...it doesn't work like that.

    You could create a router with a Windows Server OS and RRAS or you can do it
    with Linux. Other than that, you need to buy a real router.

    If you buy a commercial grade Firewall (won't find one in a retail store)
    then some of them can have multiple LAN Interfaces which allow the Firewall
    to pull "double-duty" as both a Firewall and a LAN Router.

    --
    Phillip Windell

    The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
    Phillip Windell, Nov 2, 2009
    #9
  10. Please excuse my ignorance - but this is what I thought would be possible:


    1.2.3.4
    |
    |
    ============ Router A =============
    |
    192.168.1.10 )(address hardcoded for port 1 in Router A)
    |
    |

    == Router B ==
    |
    192.168.1.100 - 107
    (range of addresses available
    to ports on Router A)

    So I would get a "range" of client machines able to access internet at 1.2.3.4
    and each other at 192.168.1.100 - 192.168.1.107

    If I add Router C at port 2 of Router A (hardcoded at 192.168.2.10) I could get
    another range of client machines able to access internet at 1.2.3.4 and each
    other at 192.168.2.100 - 192.168.2.107) and so on... right?

    Some configuration of default routes would be needed too.


    jan M. Nelken
     
    Jan M. Nelken, Nov 3, 2009
    #10
  11. Patrick Whittle

    Bill Grant Guest

    You don't need two routers for that. You just need one router with two
    private interfaces.

    Internet
    |
    Public IP
    NAT
    |
    |------------------|
    LAN 1 LAN 2
     
    Bill Grant, Nov 3, 2009
    #11
  12. I had in mind consumer product - router/n-port switch
    like linksys BEFSR41 or BEFSR81

    Jan M. Nelken
     
    Jan M. Nelken, Nov 3, 2009
    #12

  13. This looks like a NAT to NAT diagram, and with NAT, it's a bit more complex.
    Besides, if AD is involved, which is what Patrick is using, AD communication
    fails across a NAT. I do believe (please correct me on this), is that some
    of the retail NAT devices have the capabilities to be put into 'corporate'
    mode (or whatever the manuf. refers to it as) to allow it to route, instead
    of NAT.

    Ace
     
    Ace Fekay [MCT], Nov 3, 2009
    #13
  14. All that I was thinking, was to configure my second router first at a
    different location, and then bringing the DI624 to my new office in Toronto.
    This is why I chose: 10.14.208.0 as the second segment.
     
    Patrick Whittle, Nov 3, 2009
    #14

  15. I see, it's at a different location, not at the same location? That
    complicates things. You will need two routers that supports VPN tunnels at
    both ends to effectively connect the two locations together to 'appear' as
    if they are on the same network. Have you checked the devices that you have
    if they support this feature?

    Ace
     
    Ace Fekay [MCT], Nov 3, 2009
    #15
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