UAC sucks. Ask us once, then don't ask again

Discussion in 'Windows Vista General Discussion' started by cjshaker, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. cjshaker

    cjshaker Guest

    Microsoft continues to wonder why Vista does not sell as well as they
    hoped.

    One of the reasons is the UAC. It supposedly increases our security,
    while asking us over and over again to approve the SAME program to run.
    That is just plain stupid, and trains the user to blindly approve the
    program. If the user interface was not plain stupid, it would ask us
    ONCE to approve a new or unknown program, instead of asking us over and
    over again to approve it. That is what Leapard on my Powermac does.

    Did Microsoft implement it this way because they don't have faith in
    their ability to keep a database of 'approved programs' secure from
    hackers?

    The most concise example of user interface stupidity is that I have to
    approve the Microsoft disk cleanup utility to run EACH time I run it.
    Moronic software.

    And, if you disable UAC, Microsoft Vista will nag you to death to turn
    it back on.

    Another way that UAC bites me on the rear is when I attempt to update
    my Jeppesen Jeppview 3 approach charts. If I don't sit by the computer,
    and stay
    ready to approve the just downloaded update to run, it times out, and I
    have
    to start the whole update download again. This is on my Windows Vista
    Home
    Basic machine.

    I currently own three computers running Vista, and three that still run
    WinXP. I also use my PowerMac, running Leapard OS. I also operate a
    couple of Linux machines.
    I'm a software engineer, and understand a fair amount about security
    issues.

    The emperor is wearing no clothes. But no doubt, people on this forum
    will reply telling me how wonderful UAC is, and why I should blindly
    love it as they do.

    Chris Shaker
     
    cjshaker, Dec 23, 2008
    #1
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  2. cjshaker

    mansrm81 Guest

    You can do this and it won't popup anymore

    http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/80938-user-account-control-uac-elevate-privilege-level.html?filte

    --
    mansrm8

    If you think I helped you fix your problem give me some rep :D. Click o
    the scales. [image
    http://www.vistax64.com/members/mansrm81-albums-asdf-picture192-untitled.jpg]
     
    mansrm81, Dec 23, 2008
    #2
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  3. cjshaker

    D.P. Roberts Guest

    D.P. Roberts, Dec 23, 2008
    #3
  4. cjshaker

    Gordon Guest

    Not at all. All OS's that are FAR more secure than Windows have the same
    function. (Linux, Unix, MAC etc etc.) Get used to it.
     
    Gordon, Dec 23, 2008
    #4
  5. Em Terça, 23 de Dezembro de 2008 22:50, Gordon escreveu:
    There is no UAC in linux, and nothing like it.
     
    Sthief Ballmer, Dec 23, 2008
    #5
  6. That's because in Linux and all the other *nix variants, you never run in Admin
    mode unless you are asking for trouble. It's been that way from the beginning
    and anyone writing software for *nix knows that.

    With Windows, there are far too many legacy programs that require admin rights
    to run and still too many new ones being written by people who don't know any
    better.
     
    Robert Neville, Dec 23, 2008
    #6
  7. cjshaker

    Kayman Guest

    Five Misunderstood Features in Windows Vista
    ¡E User Account Control
    ¡E Image management
    ¡E Display Driver Model
    ¡E Search
    ¡E 64 bit architecture
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...86-9661-49b1-87ce-6d4a39e83747&DisplayLang=en
     
    Kayman, Dec 24, 2008
    #7
  8. cjshaker

    +Bob+ Guest

    But they managed to implement it in a selective fashion only when
    needed so that it doesn't needlessly piss off the user community. That
    would be the difference between "proper security" and "blanket denial
    of access".
     
    +Bob+, Dec 24, 2008
    #8
  9. cjshaker

    Not Even Me Guest

    Five Misunderstood Features in Windows Vista
    I understand it, and it's intent.
    Too bad they did such a piss poor job of implementing it.
    But after seeing the how the rest of the OS was designed, it's no surprise.
     
    Not Even Me, Dec 24, 2008
    #9
  10. cjshaker

    Gordon Guest


    Then that same program is not Vista compliant......complain to the vendors
    not MS...
    The whole essence of computer security is to run as a Standard User NOT an
    Admin. Thus Linux, Unix and MAC.
     
    Gordon, Dec 24, 2008
    #10

  11. You must be very disappointed to see what Microsoft are doing to your 'best
    feature' of Vista.

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Dec 24, 2008
    #11
  12. cjshaker

    +Bob+ Guest

    You miss the point. MS changed the rules for this VERY late in the
    game of Windows. When they did, they did it in a massive,
    non-selective, global fashion that simply made using their OS much
    more difficult than it has to be.

    If they'd invested the time to do it correctly, it would not be such
    an issue.
     
    +Bob+, Dec 24, 2008
    #12
  13. You miss the point. MS changed the rules for this VERY late in the
    That's twice you've said that, and surely it's nonsense. UAC prompts only
    appear if the program is about to do something with security implications
    (or requests permission to do so). That isn't "global" at all. In fact, it
    is highly selective.
    I'm not claiming they did it "correctly", but I am saying it isn't "such an
    issue". I've made sure all my software is Vista-compatible, and now it's
    very rare indeed to get UAC prompts, EXCEPT when I'm doing some sort of
    system administration. For those jobs I switch to my administrator account.

    The best thing about that is that I still get the UAC prompts (thus
    prompting me to any potential security challenge), but it just needs a
    single click (or a right arrow / Enter key press) to clear the prompt.

    Honestly, if UAC is annoying you, then you must surely be running some
    crappy, non-compliant software.

    Just to emphasise that last point: fully XP-compatible programs don't
    generate UAC prompts either* - it's just that XP never enforced the XP
    Programming Guidelines (published over SIX YEARS AGO), whereas Vista does.

    There is simply no good excuse for any vaguely modern application to
    generate UAC prompts*. If you're using software that does, then get back to
    the vendor and nag them.

    SteveT

    *Except, of course, for admin or security programs, for which you should log
    on as an administrator anyway.
     
    Steve Thackery, Dec 24, 2008
    #13
  14. cjshaker

    +Bob+ Guest

    Oh yes, very selective: any change to the registry, no matter what the
    key. Any change to any directory not in the MS defined user area. Any
    use of a program on a network drive, even an internally shared drive
    that you have already authenticated to. Sorry, those are global.
    Nice for you. Somehow it doesn't make sense to me that I should need
    to replace software that works fine under XP to rid myself of UAC
    warnings (in other words, just to satisfy UAC, not to improve the
    software) or spend hours googling to make things work that should
    already work by default. For example, I was unable to access a network
    database on a drive I was already authenticated to. See above.
    Yeah, crappy software like MS-Access, MS-networking, etc.
    Yawn. "We reduced the speed limit six years ago but we never posted
    the signs or enforced the law. Now were doing both". Sorry, but that
    doesn't mean change is any more welcome.
    I'll call MS in the morning.
     
    +Bob+, Dec 26, 2008
    #14
  15. I don't think that's right - I can make (e.g. create a new key under
    HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software) without UAC interfering.
    Again, no, it's any change to a particular set of directories. You can
    create a directory at route level (e.g c:\mydir) and then after that
    you can do what you like in that dir..
    I've just opened a network drive on another pc and run putty from
    there. Seemed to work fine - no UAC.
    Sounds like they're local to your PC....
     
    Gareth Erskine-Jones, Dec 27, 2008
    #15
  16. cjshaker

    +Bob+ Guest

    Nope, google it if you care to.
     
    +Bob+, Dec 28, 2008
    #16
  17. Yes I do.
    Running regedit does get the UAT prompt. The OP didn't mention running
    regedit, he mentioned "any change to the registry". You don't need
    regedit to change the registry.
    UAC is turned on and is working on my PC. Have you tried this stuff?
    Does running something simple like putty from a network drive cause
    the UAC prompt to appear on your machine?

    Even if UAC is causing the OP all of this grief, I don't see what the
    problem is - it takes about 30 seconds to turn it off, and then
    slightly less time to disable the security center notifications.
     
    Gareth Erskine-Jones, Jan 1, 2009
    #17
  18. No you don't. You can use regedit to alter the registry. That requires
    UAC to launch. That, admittedly, is daft - it should be possible to
    secure the registry perfectly well by using ACLs alone. Using a BAT
    file (I presume you mean a .reg file which is associated with regedit)
    then obviously, this is going to start up regedit, which again invokes
    UAC. So it seems that you are complaining that UAC is needed to use
    regedit - which is true, but not nearly as damning as your original
    statement - that you get the UAC prompt for "any change to the
    registry". If that were true, then most programs would in fact cause
    the UAC prompt to appear. I wrote a very short C# console program
    which created the registry key I mentioned. I ran it without admin
    priviledges, the UAC prompt did not appear. I then launched regedit
    (the UAC prompt did appear), and verified that the key had been
    created. So you do not get the UAC prompt for "any change to the
    registry".
    Could you describe exactly what you're doing to get this "nagging"? It
    simply doesn't happen on my machine or any other vista machine I'm
    aware of (except yours). When I launch an application, it's recorded
    in the registry (the various MRU lists), but there's no nag from
    defender...
    You said you couldn't turn off UAC without being continually nagged by
    your system about it. You are mistaken. Go to control panel, pick User
    Accounts, turn of UAC with the Turn User Account Control on or off
    option. You'll see the UAC prompt, and be prompted for a reboot.
    Select reboot later. A warning appears in your system tray and the
    security center icon appears. Double click on it, when it opens,
    double click on "Change the way security center alerts me", turn off
    notifications. Reboot. You're right - the reboot takes it beyond the
    minute I quoted initially (but I did do it). Still, it's turned off,
    and you're not being nagged any more.
    I wouldn't know, the only machines with viruses on I deal with are
    other peoples.
    It's set up fine. Having to click on a button periodically doesn't
    bother me much at all - especially as it tells me that an action
    requiring admin priviledges is about to be performed. Usually I know
    this is the case, but sometimes I don't, and then it's nice to know.
    My kids' PCs run Vista too, and they don't have admin accounts - UAC
    means if they try to do anything requiring admin access, they have to
    call me over - that saves me an enormous amount of time fixing things
    they've broken.
    You must run some odd programs then - I've currently got two instances
    of Forte Agent open, one of Visual Studio 2008 and couple of instances
    of IE7 and Firefox. Looking at my start menu, I've recently used
    acrobat reader, winLAME, Google Earth, Putty, TrueCrypt, Excel, and
    the remote desktop client. Probably a lot more besides that - none of
    those applications have cause the UAC prompt to appear.

    Seriously though - I think it's great, you don't like it. I accept
    we're not going to agree - so how about I continue to use it, and you,
    instead of complaining about it all the time, just turn it off. I
    mean, I run linux boxes too, and I hate emacs. I don't feel the need
    to rant about how terrible it is though, I just use vi instead.
     
    Gareth Erskine-Jones, Jan 2, 2009
    #18
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